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Thread: The Breaststroke Lane

  1. #261
    aka Elaine-iaK & Aqua Dog ElaineK's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by Allen Stark View Post
    When you recover your feet by bending at the knee only they tend to stay lower and so kicking air is less of a problem.Really focus on that.Good luck!!
    OK! It's on tomorrow's swim sets...and the next day... and the next day...

    Thanks!
    http://ElaineiaKsTravels.wordpress.com

    ~ Believing in your dreams can be far more rewarding than living by your limitations ~Karla Peterson

  2. #262
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Allen,

    I've been trying to engage my hips and shoulders on my breaststroke but without any apparent result. Do you know of any drill that could help this?

    Thank you very much for your invaluable posts.
    "Think of your breaststroke as a jewel: You never hammer it, you only polish it."

  3. #263
    Very Active Member Allen Stark's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by androvski View Post
    Allen,

    I've been trying to engage my hips and shoulders on my breaststroke but without any apparent result. Do you know of any drill that could help this?

    Thank you very much for your invaluable posts.
    There is a drill I read about and have tried that might help called the "Y" drill.
    From streamline position move your arms out to just wider than your shoulders so your body forms the letter Y.Now push your hips forward 2-4 inches.Then skull your hands together and rapidly push your butt back so it breaks the surface(sort of a dolphin kick but with no knee bend.)Repeat.
    "To strive,to seek,to find,and not to yield" Tennyson
    Allen

  4. #264
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Hi, it's my first post here so helo everybody

    I'm totaly amateur breaststroker, but always trying to improve and take my stroke to a higher level.


    Firstly, thanks for Allen Shark for drills, i new most of them, but didn't realised for which reason are they important ( i think it's important to know why we are doing each drill to focus on fine points, that's why i hope my stroke will be much better after more drilling )


    I could swim for some years but i took it much more seriously 2 years ago, and since then I'm "training" 5-6 times a week on my own. I have changed my lap swimming style by watching thousands of videos, and reading hundreds of articles.
    ( haven't found any club yet, that one i want to join is out of my reach yet - 26s free or 35s 50m breast is the limit, and my times are ~30for free and 41 for breast)

    Maybe I will upload a video of my stroke in a few days and it will by easier to catch some mistakes.

    I was told by some trainers that my stroke looks "nice", watching my video underwater it also seems to look nice, but very ... very slow ( in comparison to underwater videos of ... Kitajima and other breaststrokers )

    I think that my weakest point is slow kick, and here is my request for some drills to improve it - I've read that eaggbeater is good for foot speed.

    I found on this forum topics from Andy with short sets for faster SDK and flutter kick, and also swim, so i will try it and post here with results

    If you could propose some sets for improving faster kicking it would be great.


    In my trainings I do breast kicking mostly on my back ( i feel good with it ) but when I go for a normal stroke it doesn't work such good and I don't feel such propulsion as I feel when swimming on my back.
    Another thing that comes to my mind is comparision my kick on breast to cutting water, not pushing it behind. ( on back it;s a little bit different )

    I also do (only few times) vertical kicking with weight belt ( 4kg ~ 10 pounds ) and after that set I am able to kick faster but also the propulsion isn't satisfactory.

    I know that without video is hard to help

  5. #265
    Very Active Member Allen Stark's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by No26 View Post
    Hi, it's my first post here so helo everybody

    I'm totaly amateur breaststroker, but always trying to improve and take my stroke to a higher level.


    Firstly, thanks for Allen Shark for drills, i new most of them, but didn't realised for which reason are they important ( i think it's important to know why we are doing each drill to focus on fine points, that's why i hope my stroke will be much better after more drilling )


    I could swim for some years but i took it much more seriously 2 years ago, and since then I'm "training" 5-6 times a week on my own. I have changed my lap swimming style by watching thousands of videos, and reading hundreds of articles.
    ( haven't found any club yet, that one i want to join is out of my reach yet - 26s free or 35s 50m breast is the limit, and my times are ~30for free and 41 for breast)

    Maybe I will upload a video of my stroke in a few days and it will by easier to catch some mistakes.

    I was told by some trainers that my stroke looks "nice", watching my video underwater it also seems to look nice, but very ... very slow ( in comparison to underwater videos of ... Kitajima and other breaststrokers )

    I think that my weakest point is slow kick, and here is my request for some drills to improve it - I've read that eaggbeater is good for foot speed.

    I found on this forum topics from Andy with short sets for faster SDK and flutter kick, and also swim, so i will try it and post here with results

    If you could propose some sets for improving faster kicking it would be great.


    In my trainings I do breast kicking mostly on my back ( i feel good with it ) but when I go for a normal stroke it doesn't work such good and I don't feel such propulsion as I feel when swimming on my back.
    Another thing that comes to my mind is comparision my kick on breast to cutting water, not pushing it behind. ( on back it;s a little bit different )

    I also do (only few times) vertical kicking with weight belt ( 4kg ~ 10 pounds ) and after that set I am able to kick faster but also the propulsion isn't satisfactory.

    I know that without video is hard to help
    Vertical kicking is great for strength.but it is easy to get form problems since drag forces are different as you are nearly stationary.Kicking on your back is a great drill,but it isolates the kick from the body motion so in full stroke you may feel that it is not as good because you have to involve your core more.Try the arms at side kick drill and see how that feels.If you could post a video that would be great.
    "To strive,to seek,to find,and not to yield" Tennyson
    Allen

  6. #266
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Hi, thanks a lot for advices, I will try them

    Here is my video made 21.07.2010.

    [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqUns-pbg4g"]YouTube - 50m breast[/nomedia]

    Maybe some details have changed but temporaly I cannot make a video

    On my own I can see some things that I wan't to improve:
    1)streamline - feet are pointing down, after each kick the are falling down
    2)arms - almost straight - Now I hope, have improved it
    3)knees closer
    4)dynamics - slow slow slow ...

    I also know that I don't involve my core ... Is it so crucial that I move so slow ?



    edit:

    today i tried this drill flutter kick (with fins) and breaststroke pull - and what can I say - awesome, I have never tried this with fins.
    It is a big difference with them, and after I got used to it I feel my arm speed was growing and resistance was decreasing on each pull
    Last edited by No26; September 24th, 2010 at 01:00 PM. Reason: don't want to do double post

  7. #267
    Very Active Member Allen Stark's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by No26 View Post
    Hi, thanks a lot for advices, I will try them

    Here is my video made 21.07.2010.

    YouTube - 50m breast

    Maybe some details have changed but temporaly I cannot make a video

    On my own I can see some things that I wan't to improve:
    1)streamline - feet are pointing down, after each kick the are falling down
    2)arms - almost straight - Now I hope, have improved it
    3)knees closer
    4)dynamics - slow slow slow ...

    I also know that I don't involve my core ... Is it so crucial that I move so slow ?



    edit:

    today i tried this drill flutter kick (with fins) and breaststroke pull - and what can I say - awesome, I have never tried this with fins.
    It is a big difference with them, and after I got used to it I feel my arm speed was growing and resistance was decreasing on each pull
    Your kick looks technically OK.You may want to work a little on your ankle flexibility so you can turn your feet out a little more and "grab" the water better.The big problem I see is the pull.You are leading with your elbows instead of getting them up(think reaching over a barrel) and this is drastically reducing the efficiency of your pull.
    "To strive,to seek,to find,and not to yield" Tennyson
    Allen

  8. #268
    Very Active Member Allen Stark's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    I found a new drill today,actually a variation of another one.Flutter kick rapidly with fins underwater and then start doing pulldowns.Doing the recovery at speed really helps to see where the resistance is and helps to learn reduce it.
    "To strive,to seek,to find,and not to yield" Tennyson
    Allen

  9. #269
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Thanks a lot for advice

    I hope my pull is now a little better - I have worked on high elbow,

    As soon as I am able to make video I will show the results

    Now I am going to try some drills to make more improvements

  10. #270
    Very Active Member Chris Stevenson's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by Allen Stark View Post
    I found a new drill today,actually a variation of another one.Flutter kick rapidly with fins underwater and then start doing pulldowns.Doing the recovery at speed really helps to see where the resistance is and helps to learn reduce it.
    A good idea. I think this sort of thing is one of the great uses of fins. I have spent time tweaking my arm and head positions during SDK-ing while using fins in this manner (but with dolphin instead of flutter kick).

    I would think your drill just might work for the stroke itself too (ie, to discover resistance during the recovery of the swim). Have you tried it?

  11. #271
    aka Elaine-iaK & Aqua Dog ElaineK's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Hey Chris, welcome to the frog thread! Nice to have you drop by! I enjoy reading your posts and love your avatar. But, I can't decide which I like better; this one or the last. Your dog is so cute!
    http://ElaineiaKsTravels.wordpress.com

    ~ Believing in your dreams can be far more rewarding than living by your limitations ~Karla Peterson

  12. #272
    aka Elaine-iaK & Aqua Dog ElaineK's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by Allen Stark View Post
    I found a new drill today,actually a variation of another one.Flutter kick rapidly with fins underwater and then start doing pulldowns.Doing the recovery at speed really helps to see where the resistance is and helps to learn reduce it.
    Allen, your drills have helped me so much- thanks! Thanks to all of your tips on this thread, I got another PB in 50yd breaststroke (38.90). I'm just .31 away from AA on the Motivational Times Chart, so I'm getting there! It was the last event of a pentathlon in an outdoor pool (I've never competed outdoors in my life!), in 90 degree heat and warm water. And, the heat had wiped me out. And, I planted my feet too high on the turn and slipped on the metal, fishtailing out of the turn. In other words, all the cards were stacked against me and I still beat last month's PB of 39.69. So, your drills are helping!

    Cheers!
    http://ElaineiaKsTravels.wordpress.com

    ~ Believing in your dreams can be far more rewarding than living by your limitations ~Karla Peterson

  13. #273
    Very Active Member Allen Stark's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stevenson View Post
    A good idea. I think this sort of thing is one of the great uses of fins. I have spent time tweaking my arm and head positions during SDK-ing while using fins in this manner (but with dolphin instead of flutter kick).

    I would think your drill just might work for the stroke itself too (ie, to discover resistance during the recovery of the swim). Have you tried it?
    I did list that as an earlier drill.I like to do these upper body resistance drills with flutter kick as that gives a steady core which I find less distracting.
    "To strive,to seek,to find,and not to yield" Tennyson
    Allen

  14. #274
    Very Active Member Allen Stark's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by ElaineK View Post
    Allen, your drills have helped me so much- thanks! Thanks to all of your tips on this thread, I got another PB in 50yd breaststroke (38.90). I'm just .31 away from AA on the Motivational Times Chart, so I'm getting there! It was the last event of a pentathlon in an outdoor pool (I've never competed outdoors in my life!), in 90 degree heat and warm water. And, the heat had wiped me out. And, I planted my feet too high on the turn and slipped on the metal, fishtailing out of the turn. In other words, all the cards were stacked against me and I still beat last month's PB of 39.69. So, your drills are helping!

    Cheers!
    "To strive,to seek,to find,and not to yield" Tennyson
    Allen

  15. #275
    Active Member Zulu's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    My pullout used to ROCK when I was younger. I was one of those guys who would come up after everyone else had taken a stroke or two and be out in front, and gain more distance on the turn, keeping good momentum all the way.

    However, I've noticed that I can't do my initial recovery without just about coming to a dead stop in the water.

    I don't know. I try to creap my hands up close to my body under my groin, to along my stomach, to along my ribs (by then, I really notice it), then shoot them out as I take my next kick and start out swimming. It's like I'm starting out from a dead stop.

    Maybe I'm waiting too long. Maybe I'm just not as streamlined as I used to be (I lost about 35lbs in the past few months with about 20 more to go until I'm back under my racing heft). I may just be over thinking it, because I really don't remember concentrating so much on it when I was 19.

    I did a video of some pullouts and laps, and I'm finding a bunch of little mistakes here and there on my stroke overall...but I just can't see or feel or figure out what I'm doing.

  16. #276
    Very Active Member Allen Stark's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by Zulu View Post
    My pullout used to ROCK when I was younger. I was one of those guys who would come up after everyone else had taken a stroke or two and be out in front, and gain more distance on the turn, keeping good momentum all the way.

    However, I've noticed that I can't do my initial recovery without just about coming to a dead stop in the water.

    I don't know. I try to creap my hands up close to my body under my groin, to along my stomach, to along my ribs (by then, I really notice it), then shoot them out as I take my next kick and start out swimming. It's like I'm starting out from a dead stop.

    Maybe I'm waiting too long. Maybe I'm just not as streamlined as I used to be (I lost about 35lbs in the past few months with about 20 more to go until I'm back under my racing heft). I may just be over thinking it, because I really don't remember concentrating so much on it when I was 19.

    I did a video of some pullouts and laps, and I'm finding a bunch of little mistakes here and there on my stroke overall...but I just can't see or feel or figure out what I'm doing.
    please post the video.You are probably waiting too long.Before your pull may have been better or your streamline better or something so that you are losing speed faster than before.It would be easier to know with a video.
    "To strive,to seek,to find,and not to yield" Tennyson
    Allen

  17. #277
    Active Member Zulu's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    I'm having a hard time finding one that can really show anything (other than maybe my knees opening too much). I did come off the wall too low. I guess I can work on that.

    [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fSl4OM-NU0"]YouTube - Dad Pull Out[/nomedia]

    Maybe shave my back too.

  18. #278
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by Zulu View Post
    I'm having a hard time finding one that can really show anything (other than maybe my knees opening too much). I did come off the wall too low. I guess I can work on that.

    YouTube - Dad Pull Out

    Maybe shave my back too.
    John, I was filmed by "The Athlete Village" at Nationals, while swimming the 200 breaststroke. The coach who critiqued my video suggested I count, "One-one thousand" after the push off the wall, then, again, for the pulldown. He felt I was taking too long, and, from what I can tell from your video, I think you may be, as well. I will defer to the Frog-In-Chief, Allen Stark, however, because he IS the frog!
    http://ElaineiaKsTravels.wordpress.com

    ~ Believing in your dreams can be far more rewarding than living by your limitations ~Karla Peterson

  19. #279
    Very Active Member Allen Stark's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by Zulu View Post
    I'm having a hard time finding one that can really show anything (other than maybe my knees opening too much). I did come off the wall too low. I guess I can work on that.

    YouTube - Dad Pull Out

    Maybe shave my back too.
    Your arms are too straight in the pull,think fly pull only finish past your hips.Then you need to shrug your shoulders to be more streamlined.Then you do wait too long to start your recovery.Also you are too deep when you start your kick so that you need to angle up too steeply on your breakout.Finally you lift your head to breath on the breakout.That sounds like a lot of mistakes but actually it is quite good,but it could be awesome.
    "To strive,to seek,to find,and not to yield" Tennyson
    Allen

  20. #280
    Active Member Zulu's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Thanks Alan and Elaine. I definately see how going too deep is slowing me down. Also, I was working on a drill to not breath (keep my head down) on my first stroke after pullout. I try to do what I tell my daughter,"thousand one, thosand two" pull "thousand one, thousand two" recover hands...I think I'm going to set myself up to start pulling much more quickly after that...and tell her the same.

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