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Thread: The Breaststroke Lane

  1. #901
    Very Active Member ElaineK's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by gobears View Post
    A question for my fellow breaststroke swimmers: I was noticing yesterday (while watching online videos of the breaststroke events at the 2012 Olympic Games) that the men all seem to add their dolphin kick on their pull out as their hands separate but before they pull down. I had a coach telling me that I need to learn to do that because it's much faster than kicking at the finish of the arm pull. However, if you watch the women, they all dolphin kick where I do (at the end of the arm pull). Anyone have any thoughts on why this is true? It took me forever to add a dolphin kick at all after years of not doing one. The last thing I want to do is have to re-learn where to put it!

    I must confess (although you would notice it if you saw any of my breaststroke videos); I don't do it AT ALL. So, I won't be able to help you here. I have been working so hard on everything else with my breaststroke just to get it somewhat right that I haven't wanted to add yet another technique to work on. Besides, I am also working on the other strokes for my 400 IM; I really have my hands full!
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  2. #902
    Very Active Member gobears's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by ElaineK View Post

    I must confess (although you would notice it if you saw any of my breaststroke videos); I don't do it AT ALL. So, I won't be able to help you here. I have been working so hard on everything else with my breaststroke just to get it somewhat right that I haven't wanted to add yet another technique to work on. Besides, I am also working on the other strokes for my 400 IM; I really have my hands full!
    Lol - it really did take me about a year to put the kick in (that sounds so lame but after so many years of being sure not to kick it was absolutely foreign). I completely understand what you're saying...

  3. #903
    Very Active Member Allen Stark's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by gobears View Post
    A question for my fellow breaststroke swimmers: I was noticing yesterday (while watching online videos of the breaststroke events at the 2012 Olympic Games) that the men all seem to add their dolphin kick on their pull out as their hands separate but before they pull down. I had a coach telling me that I need to learn to do that because it's much faster than kicking at the finish of the arm pull. However, if you watch the women, they all dolphin kick where I do (at the end of the arm pull). Anyone have any thoughts on why this is true? It took me forever to add a dolphin kick at all after years of not doing one. The last thing I want to do is have to re-learn where to put it!
    Several of the women do the early arm dolphin too.Many more swimmers do it off the dive and on the first turn,but fewer on the last turn.The advantage of the early kick is that you will go further underwater,and if you have a good dolphin kick you will probably be faster.If you don't have a good dolphin kick(like me) then you probably won't be faster and the and since the extra time underwater costs extra oxygen it won't be worth it. That's why so many don't use it as the race gets longer,the desire for speed vs the need for oxygen ratio starts to favor needing oxygen.Another reason to keep you kick where it is is concern about being DQd .Olympians don't tend to get DQd even when they should be,but at a Masters meet the refs are not so forgiving(negligent). If you do not separate your hands before the kick or if you have a noticeable "undulation"during the pulldown you will likely be DQd.The rule was changed to allow that undulation,then people pushed the envelope with the early kick.It is faster for some people,especially at shorter distances,so you may want to try it,but I tried it and didn't find it was worth the risk for me.YMMV.
    "To strive,to seek,to find,and not to yield" Tennyson
    Allen

  4. #904
    Very Active Member gobears's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by Allen Stark View Post
    Several of the women do the early arm dolphin too.Many more swimmers do it off the dive and on the first turn,but fewer on the last turn.The advantage of the early kick is that you will go further underwater,and if you have a good dolphin kick you will probably be faster.If you don't have a good dolphin kick(like me) then you probably won't be faster and the and since the extra time underwater costs extra oxygen it won't be worth it. That's why so many don't use it as the race gets longer,the desire for speed vs the need for oxygen ratio starts to favor needing oxygen.Another reason to keep you kick where it is is concern about being DQd .Olympians don't tend to get DQd even when they should be,but at a Masters meet the refs are not so forgiving(negligent). If you do not separate your hands before the kick or if you have a noticeable "undulation"during the pulldown you will likely be DQd.The rule was changed to allow that undulation,then people pushed the envelope with the early kick.It is faster for some people,especially at shorter distances,so you may want to try it,but I tried it and didn't find it was worth the risk for me.YMMV.
    I was just surprised last night, when viewing the London women's 200, that every woman in the underwater shots used the later dolphin kick (off the start and turns). I didn't notice any using the early kick. All of the men all seemed to use the early one. You figure, those are the fastest swimmers doing the fastest things...

  5. #905
    sprint diva The Fortress's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    I was thrilled when the dolphin kick was allowed! It caused me to actually race breaststroke on occasion. I always pre-kick in a 50 or 100. As Allen notes though, I was DQ'd once for undulation after a pre-kick. However, that did not deter me from carrying on with the pre-kick. If you don't have a good dolphin kick, I can see why you might lose momentum slightly doing it first.

    Doesn't seem like oxygen would be a concern in long course with fewer turns.

  6. #906
    Very Active Member Allen Stark's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    I thought Soni did the early kick at least off the start. I was at a clinic by Megan Jendrick and she was using the early kick.
    "To strive,to seek,to find,and not to yield" Tennyson
    Allen

  7. #907
    Age Grouper in Training jaadams1's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    I attempted the early kick today while doing a breaststroke set, but it just doesn't feel natural at all. For me it actually causes me to lose the effectiveness of my pulldown with the undulation of my body at that point. If you could do the dolphin, then glide, then pulldown, it would be great. I myself will just stick with the dolphin at the end of the pulldown (where the written rule was actually intended for since it sometimes was "happening" during the pulldown).
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  8. #908
    Very Active Member gobears's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fortress View Post
    If you don't have a good dolphin kick, I can see why you might lose momentum slightly doing it first.
    That's me!!

  9. #909
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Hey new to the forums. I was wondering if you guys could help me out with my stroke / some drills. I swim a 1:13.21 100yrd breaststroke, and was wondering what are some important things I need to work on. When I race i always feel like I'm not able to go fast enough/ my legs aren't catching enough water. Another question I have is how long should i be gliding for during the 100? I have an important race on Sunday and was wondering if I could get some tips from the best. Just a little addition when I kick I want to focus as much force into the squeeze of my legs right (if that's the power phase yes?) drill's would also be appreciated.

  10. #910
    Very Active Member Allen Stark's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by theBreaststroker View Post
    Hey new to the forums. I was wondering if you guys could help me out with my stroke / some drills. I swim a 1:13.21 100yrd breaststroke, and was wondering what are some important things I need to work on. When I race i always feel like I'm not able to go fast enough/ my legs aren't catching enough water. Another question I have is how long should i be gliding for during the 100? I have an important race on Sunday and was wondering if I could get some tips from the best. Just a little addition when I kick I want to focus as much force into the squeeze of my legs right (if that's the power phase yes?) drill's would also be appreciated.
    It would help to have a video.A good drill to work on catching water with your kick is what I call the 2 inch breaststroke kick.With a snorkel or a kick board bring your feet up for the catch,kick slightly(about 2 inches),repeat.I do 80 of these kicks in each workout.
    In terms of the glide in the 100 I think the answer is just a little hesitation to make sure you have good streamlining,certainly less than 1 sec.
    Forget the concept of the squeeze.Yes you want to finish with your feet touching,and yes the adductors of the legs get a good workout in BR,but THERE IS NO KICK OUT in breaststroke kick.Recover your feet to your rear(bending only at the knees until the last instant)turn your feet out as much as possible and then kick straight back.Since your feet are outside your knees the feet will follow a curved path,but the thinking is to kick back,not out and in.
    "To strive,to seek,to find,and not to yield" Tennyson
    Allen

  11. #911
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    I have been working on getting my breast faster for my first race in 25+ yrs. I'm scheduled to do the 50 br. So far i have gotten my 25 repeats down to under 20 w just a wall push and at times in the 17's. What I'm worried about is getting dq'd. BR has changed quite a bit from since i last swam.

    The way I understand it is after a push off or start you are able to do 1 dolphin kick that must be started after your hands begin their pull? But you are able to glide under water as far as you want as there is no 15m rule as in other events correct?


    My second question is are my legs supposed to be whipping around right as I am shooting my hands forward? Or slightly after my hands have begun moving forward?

  12. #912
    Very Active Member Allen Stark's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Yes,there is no limit to how far you can go underwater on the pullout.You must do a breaststroke kick after the dolphin kick.
    As to when to kick,some elite swimmers do it both ways.The main thing is that you are completely streamlined with your arms and upper body by the power phase of the kick.
    Last edited by Allen Stark; February 8th, 2013 at 01:08 PM.
    "To strive,to seek,to find,and not to yield" Tennyson
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Hi, i am new here and i hope that you guys can help me with technique tips and drills. My head goes too much high (really high) while i'm swimming breastroke and my trainer says that i go upward while i'm getting out of the water, not in front... Despite that, i swim 34,67 50LCM (i guess that this isn't such a bad time).

    And by the way, i can get myself on the video and post it here if that is necessary.

    I would appreciate your help .

  14. #914
    Very Active Member ElaineK's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by Dulee View Post
    Hi, i am new here and i hope that you guys can help me with technique tips and drills. My head goes too much high (really high) while i'm swimming breastroke and my trainer says that i go upward while i'm getting out of the water, not in front... Despite that, i swim 34,67 50LCM (i guess that this isn't such a bad time).

    And by the way, i can get myself on the video and post it here if that is necessary.

    I would appreciate your help .

    Welcome to the frog lane!
    See the frog above your post? That's King Frog; a fantastic breaststroker (Masters world record holder at one time) who is terrific at analyzing stroke videos. Do get yourself on video and post it here!
    http://ElaineiaKsTravels.wordpress.com

    ~ Believing in your dreams can be far more rewarding than living by your limitations ~Karla Peterson

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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    So you are saying I should post my vid here????

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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    I know something about Allen because i read this thread, but i didn't know that he had a world record. I'm really glad that i can get advices from someone like him Anyway, i can't get myself on tape for 2 or 3 days since i have a cold right now, but i hope that i can get some advice even without video so i can work on technique immediately on next training

  17. #917
    Very Active Member ElaineK's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by sok454 View Post
    So you are saying I should post my vid here????
    Your breaststroke video from Sunday? Heck yeah!
    http://ElaineiaKsTravels.wordpress.com

    ~ Believing in your dreams can be far more rewarding than living by your limitations ~Karla Peterson

  18. #918
    Very Active Member ElaineK's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by Dulee View Post
    I know something about Allen because i read this thread, but i didn't know that he had a world record. I'm really glad that i can get advices from someone like him Anyway, i can't get myself on tape for 2 or 3 days since i have a cold right now, but i hope that i can get some advice even without video so i can work on technique immediately on next training

    Without video, K.F. (and everybody else) would be guessing as to what exactly you are doing. Read through this entire thread and see if anybody else has posted a video similar to your breaststroke. The advice that follows would be helpful, I'm sure! By the way, Jim Rude has also posted excellent breaststroke advice. And, Woofus B. Loofus has, as well.
    http://ElaineiaKsTravels.wordpress.com

    ~ Believing in your dreams can be far more rewarding than living by your limitations ~Karla Peterson

  19. #919
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by ElaineK View Post
    Your breaststroke video from Sunday? Heck yeah!
    On review not sure you would call this breast stroke!!!

  20. #920
    Very Active Member ElaineK's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by sok454 View Post
    On review not sure you would call this breast stroke!!!

    Hey, I used to swim it just like that! I swam in high school back in 1977-1979; long before the "new" breaststroke rules (1986, I think) went into effect. After 31 years away from swimming, I joined USMS in 2010 and learned the newer style. Much of what I learned was from right here on "The Breaststroke Lane".
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    ~ Believing in your dreams can be far more rewarding than living by your limitations ~Karla Peterson

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