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Thread: The Breaststroke Lane

  1. #1161
    Very Active Member Allen Stark's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by Ng Yang Theng View Post
    Instead I'm initiating the insweep by pulling my elbows back instead?
    I am afraid I am not doing a good job in explaining it.When you make your catch at the beginning of your pull you are not keeping your elbows high.This means that as you proceed through the pull you are not able to get the entire hand/forearm unit as a propulsive surface,but instead it is just mostly from your hands alone.This greatly diminishes the power of your pull.Are you familiar with the concept of EVF(early vertical forearm) in freestyle? Breaststroke pull is more outsweeping than crawl's pull,but the high elbow feel is similar.
    "To strive,to seek,to find,and not to yield" Tennyson
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  2. #1162
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Interesting BR drill

  3. #1163
    Very Active Member robertsrobson's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by Allen Stark View Post
    I am afraid I am not doing a good job in explaining it.When you make your catch at the beginning of your pull you are not keeping your elbows high.This means that as you proceed through the pull you are not able to get the entire hand/forearm unit as a propulsive surface,but instead it is just mostly from your hands alone.This greatly diminishes the power of your pull.Are you familiar with the concept of EVF(early vertical forearm) in freestyle? Breaststroke pull is more outsweeping than crawl's pull,but the high elbow feel is similar.
    Another drill - try swimming breaststroke with straight arms, just sweeping the hands in and out. Alternatively, do this with a pull buoy.

    Then, allow your elbows to bend a little (more), but keeping your upper arms still and high.

    Finally, swim 'normally' but keep that your elbows high on the outsweep.

  4. #1164
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Hi Frogs,

    Can anyone tell me if the rules for open turns on breaststroke stipulate that both hands have to touch on the same horizontal line? I just got DQ'd in the 200 for "touch: one hand." It was a pool that did not have a gutter at water level like I'm used to - which I grab onto for my open turns. This pool just had a flat wall - nothing to grab onto. So during warm up, I practiced doing turns by reaching my right hand up to the top edge of the wall - right at deck level, maybe 4-5" above the water level - to have a bit of something to grab onto. I let my left hand touch normally - and simultaneously - at water level. So from the deck, the officials would have noticed one hand reaching up quite prominently and might not have noticed the other hand further down, partly or fully submerged. A strange way to turn, maybe, but illegal?

    Also of interest to froggie types: The new Muppet Movie was hilarious - just like I remember the Muppets from childhood (although the 6-12 yr old kids I was with didn't seem to enjoy it nearly as much as us older folks).

  5. #1165
    Very Active Member Allen Stark's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by GregJS View Post
    Hi Frogs,

    Can anyone tell me if the rules for open turns on breaststroke stipulate that both hands have to touch on the same horizontal line? I just got DQ'd in the 200 for "touch: one hand." It was a pool that did not have a gutter at water level like I'm used to - which I grab onto for my open turns. This pool just had a flat wall - nothing to grab onto. So during warm up, I practiced doing turns by reaching my right hand up to the top edge of the wall - right at deck level, maybe 4-5" above the water level - to have a bit of something to grab onto. I let my left hand touch normally - and simultaneously - at water level. So from the deck, the officials would have noticed one hand reaching up quite prominently and might not have noticed the other hand further down, partly or fully submerged. A strange way to turn, maybe, but illegal?

    Also of interest to froggie types: The new Muppet Movie was hilarious - just like I remember the Muppets from childhood (although the 6-12 yr old kids I was with didn't seem to enjoy it nearly as much as us older folks).
    I am pretty sure the hands do not have to be on the same plane as long as the touch is simultaneous.You should practice doing flat wall turns though, so that you don't have to reach up.If you race in a pool with the international touchpads it is pretty well impossible to grab anything.
    "To strive,to seek,to find,and not to yield" Tennyson
    Allen

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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by Allen Stark View Post
    I am pretty sure the hands do not have to be on the same plane as long as the touch is simultaneous.
    Thanks for that info.

    [/QUOTE]You should practice doing flat wall turns though, so that you don't have to reach up.[/QUOTE]

    Thanks for that suggestion. That would definitely solve the whole issue.

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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by GregJS View Post
    Thanks for that info.
    You should practice doing flat wall turns though, so that you don't have to reach up.[/QUOTE]

    Thanks for that suggestion. That would definitely solve the whole issue.[/QUOTE]

    Allen is correct on both counts; the hands do not have to touch at the same level, just at the same time and separated:
    101.2.4, At each turn and at the finish of the race, the touch shall be made with both hands separated and simultaneously at, above, or below the water level.

    It does not say that both hands have to be at the same level. It can be tricky for an official to see the second hand especially if it is touching the wall under water. One of my high school swimmers would touch the wall underwater with one hand while the other hand was on the gutter, but the hand under water would barely swipe the wall and I could see where an official would think he had not touched with that lower hand. I convinced him to push with that lower hand giving a more solid touch with that hand so it would be easier for the official to see and get him off the wall quicker.

    And Allen is correct on the second item: you should be practicing flat hand turns because of high walls at international meets. Grabbing the gutter can slow you down if you are pulling yourself up instead of immediately pushing off the wall with both hands.

    Kathy Casey, Chair
    USMS Rules Committee
    Kathy Casey

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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Thanks. Sounds like a flat hand turn is not only less likely to get me DQ'd but also necessary at some pools/meets and faster too. Will start doing that.

  9. #1169
    Very Active Member Allen Stark's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Ande periodically posts on each of the Lane threads so they don't fall too far down the food chain. Aficionados of other strokes are welcome to bring up their threads too.Anyone want to talk frog?
    "To strive,to seek,to find,and not to yield" Tennyson
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by Allen Stark View Post
    Anyone want to talk frog?
    "I blame you, James!" - knelson

  11. #1171
    Very Active Member Swimosaur's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Alan, a happy combination of accidents yielded a WIN at Canadian Nationals in -- are you sitting down? -- the 200 breast! Stroke count for this SCM 200 was 6/7/7/7/8/8/9/10, with splits to match. So I got tired! But I also got one of these ...
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  12. #1172
    Very Active Member Allen Stark's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by Swimosaur View Post
    Alan, a happy combination of accidents yielded a WIN at Canadian Nationals in -- are you sitting down? -- the 200 breast! Stroke count for this SCM 200 was 6/7/7/7/8/8/9/10, with splits to match. So I got tired! But I also got one of these ...
    Whoooo Hoooooo. I find I get better overall times if I take it out slightly "too fast." Taking it out slower doesn't hurt as much though.
    "To strive,to seek,to find,and not to yield" Tennyson
    Allen

  13. #1173
    Very Active Member ElaineK's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Hey Swimosaur! I have been trying to "reply with quote" to your post about your 200 breaststroke win; however, I can't get it to work. Something is messed up with my settings, so I have contacted Jim about it.ANYWAY, this "Congratulations!" may lack my usual blue Comic Sans font and Smilies (they aren't working either), but I wanted to send it off and let you know I'm happy for you! You ROOOOCK!
    http://ElaineiaKsTravels.wordpress.com

    ~ Believing in your dreams can be far more rewarding than living by your limitations ~Karla Peterson

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    Very Active Member aztimm's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by GregJS View Post
    Thanks. Sounds like a flat hand turn is not only less likely to get me DQ'd but also necessary at some pools/meets and faster too. Will start doing that.
    If you ever do the BU SCM meet (typically in Dec), the bulkhead end is rather high. While I'm sure one could do a grab turn, you'd have to really bring your hands up quite high.
    I practice a few touch turns during warm-up just to get the right feel for them.

    The pool where I swim (even when there's touchpads) allows easy grab turns, so I get rather spoiled.

    That's too bad to get DQ'd, especially in the 200 breast. Although I once saw a guy get DQ'd on his start for the 1500m free (and he didn't find out until he finished )
    Check out my blog here
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  15. #1175
    Very Active Member Swimspire's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Hi all! When I started a poll asking how many masters swimmers incorporate drills into their workouts, about 75% of respondents indicated that they use drills frequently. So I thought that this video we just produced might be helpful for those of you looking for guidance on breaststroke drills. Merle Liivand is an Estonian national breaststroke champion and currently a swimming representative at FINIS. Enjoy! http://www.swimspire.com/breaststrok...merle-liivand/

  16. #1176
    Very Active Member ElaineK's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by ElaineK View Post
    Hey Swimosaur! I have been trying to "reply with quote" to your post about your 200 breaststroke win; however, I can't get it to work. Something is messed up with my settings, so I have contacted Jim about it.ANYWAY, this "Congratulations!" may lack my usual blue Comic Sans font and Smilies (they aren't working either), but I wanted to send it off and let you know I'm happy for you! You ROOOOCK!

    May I re-write this in true Elaine-iaK fashion? Congratulations!
    http://ElaineiaKsTravels.wordpress.com

    ~ Believing in your dreams can be far more rewarding than living by your limitations ~Karla Peterson

  17. #1177
    Very Active Member ElaineK's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by Swimspire View Post
    Hi all! When I started a poll asking how many masters swimmers incorporate drills into their workouts, about 75% of respondents indicated that they use drills frequently. So I thought that this video we just produced might be helpful for those of you looking for guidance on breaststroke drills. Merle Liivand is an Estonian national breaststroke champion and currently a swimming representative at FINIS. Enjoy!
    Julia, that was an excellent video. Thanks for posting!

    P.S. Remember the article I wrote that you posted on Swimspire? A local magazine here in Georgia picked it up: http://forums.usms.org/album.php?albumid=533
    http://ElaineiaKsTravels.wordpress.com

    ~ Believing in your dreams can be far more rewarding than living by your limitations ~Karla Peterson

  18. #1178
    Very Active Member Swimspire's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by ElaineK View Post
    Julia, that was an excellent video. Thanks for posting! P.S. Remember the article I wrote that you posted on Swimspire? A local magazine here in Georgia picked it up: http://forums.usms.org/album.php?albumid=533
    Thanks, Elaine! We enjoyed producing it And congratulations on the article!! Glad to see that it is now in print Keep in touch!

  19. #1179
    Very Active Member ElaineK's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by Swimspire View Post
    Thanks, Elaine! We enjoyed producing it And congratulations on the article!! Glad to see that it is now in print Keep in touch!

    Thanks, Julia! Keep producing those terrific videos, and good luck with Swimspire!
    http://ElaineiaKsTravels.wordpress.com

    ~ Believing in your dreams can be far more rewarding than living by your limitations ~Karla Peterson

  20. #1180
    Very Active Member Allen Stark's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by Swimspire View Post
    Hi all! When I started a poll asking how many masters swimmers incorporate drills into their workouts, about 75% of respondents indicated that they use drills frequently. So I thought that this video we just produced might be helpful for those of you looking for guidance on breaststroke drills. Merle Liivand is an Estonian national breaststroke champion and currently a swimming representative at FINIS. Enjoy! http://www.swimspire.com/breaststrok...merle-liivand/
    I finally got a chance to watch this and it is excellent.I was familiar with all the drills except for the 4 stroke free/3 stroke BR drill and use the other drills frequently. I'll try the new one too. Thanks.
    "To strive,to seek,to find,and not to yield" Tennyson
    Allen

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