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Thread: The Breaststroke Lane

  1. #1341
    aka Elaine-iaK & Aqua Dog ElaineK's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Congratulations, trelyt! Reading your post brings back great memories of my first Nationals in 2010 at Georgia Tech. I had just joined USMS after 31 years off from swimming (sound familiar?), and Allen was kind enough to give me a lot of great advice here. At Nationals, he showed up behind my block to watch my races and give me constructive feedback. I have never forgotten how generous Allen was with his time, especially since he had his own races to concentrate on at that meet.

    At 2011 Summer Nationals at Auburn, Allen broke the World Record in the 200 Breaststroke, and I have called him "King Frog" ever since. He continues to live up to his name as the king of the Breaststroke Lane with his helpful advice and great online coaching for anybody who asks.


    Welcome to the lily pad, treylt!


    P.S. King Frog broke another World Record in Montreal last summer.
    My husband and I had a great time celebrating with him!
    http://ElaineiaKsTravels.wordpress.com

    ~ Believing in your dreams can be far more rewarding than living by your limitations ~Karla Peterson

  2. #1342
    aka Elaine-iaK & Aqua Dog ElaineK's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Frogs! I'm back yet again with more videos. Constructive criticism is welcomed, as I am trying to get my frog legs back after hip surgery. Thanks to my hubby, I also had a great opportunity get filmed from above at the Steve Lundquist Aquatic Center where the bleachers are behind the blocks.



    Thanks, Forumites!
    Last edited by ElaineK; August 13th, 2015 at 09:40 PM.
    http://ElaineiaKsTravels.wordpress.com

    ~ Believing in your dreams can be far more rewarding than living by your limitations ~Karla Peterson

  3. #1343
    aka Elaine-iaK & Aqua Dog ElaineK's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Here is another breaststroke video from on deck- side view:
    Last edited by ElaineK; August 13th, 2015 at 09:40 PM.
    http://ElaineiaKsTravels.wordpress.com

    ~ Believing in your dreams can be far more rewarding than living by your limitations ~Karla Peterson

  4. #1344
    aka Elaine-iaK & Aqua Dog ElaineK's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Finally, here is one of my 50 race pace- side view:
    Last edited by ElaineK; August 13th, 2015 at 05:11 PM.
    http://ElaineiaKsTravels.wordpress.com

    ~ Believing in your dreams can be far more rewarding than living by your limitations ~Karla Peterson

  5. #1345
    Very Active Member Swimspire's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Elaine, glad you're bouncing back from your surgery! Stroke looks good - you may want to consider working on the timing of your kick, and of course continue to work on your conditioning, combining your breaststroke work with training in other strokes, if possible. Great job and good luck!!

  6. #1346
    Very Active Member Allen Stark's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Given your shoulder and hip limitations I think it is great.I could give you some "corrections" but I am not sure they would be physically possible at this point,so just enjoy your return to frogdom.
    "To strive,to seek,to find,and not to yield" Tennyson
    Allen

  7. #1347
    aka Elaine-iaK & Aqua Dog ElaineK's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by Swimspire View Post
    Elaine, glad you're bouncing back from your surgery! Stroke looks good - you may want to consider working on the timing of your kick, and of course continue to work on your conditioning, combining your breaststroke work with training in other strokes, if possible. Great job and good luck!!

    Thanks, Swim'! Is the timing of my kick too soon or too late? I will definitely work on it if I know what to do!
    As for how much I can train breaststroke, I am VERY limited. My hip can withstand a few hundred yards of full breaststroke in a given workout, and then it tells me to stop. At that point, I switch to breast pull with dolphin kick, or if my hip is hurting with the dolphin kick, I let it trail behind me with a very easy kick. At this point, I only train breaststroke as part of an IM workout, and I can only kick breaststroke on alternate days.

    Thanks so much, Swim'!


    Quote Originally Posted by Allen Stark View Post
    Given your shoulder and hip limitations I think it is great.I could give you some "corrections" but I am not sure they would be physically possible at this point,so just enjoy your return to frogdom.

    I can always count on you, King Frog! Thanks for your feedback!

    It's nice to be back on the lily pad with my fellow frogs, even if I do have to spend much of the time on the pad croaking rather than in the pond kicking!
    Last edited by ElaineK; August 13th, 2015 at 09:42 PM.
    http://ElaineiaKsTravels.wordpress.com

    ~ Believing in your dreams can be far more rewarding than living by your limitations ~Karla Peterson

  8. #1348
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by Allen Stark View Post
    Given your shoulder and hip limitations I think it is great.I could give you some "corrections" but I am not sure they would be physically possible at this point,so just enjoy your return to frogdom.
    It's been a long, long time since I've been active in the Forum, let alone in the pool. (Arthritis and bulging disc, started in April, pain down the leg, etc. has kept me from training. Just returned to swimming about 3 weeks ago. My family is very grateful for this, as I am a much nicer person to be with now!).

    Anyway, as I viewed Elaine's stroke in her videos, I see a remarkable resemblance to what I think I look like when I swim BR. So, Allen and others, what corrections would you make to her stroke, if she could physically adapt them? I will apply those comments to my own swimming!

    I noticed that Elaine and I both use our head, physically that is, perhaps a bit too much during the breath and return to water? I do not feel that when I swim BR, but I have seen it in videos of me: we seem to throw our heads back to the water after breath. Should we be pressing downward/forward more with our (voluptuous !! JK) chests and letting head/neck stay straight?

    I am going to dig up a video of my BR and post for comments, too. TY in advance. Elaine - so glad to see you are back in the pond.

  9. #1349
    aka Elaine-iaK & Aqua Dog ElaineK's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by melinda View Post
    It's been a long, long time since I've been active in the Forum, let alone in the pool. (Arthritis and bulging disc, started in April, pain down the leg, etc. has kept me from training. Just returned to swimming about 3 weeks ago. My family is very grateful for this, as I am a much nicer person to be with now!).

    Anyway, as I viewed Elaine's stroke in her videos, I see a remarkable resemblance to what I think I look like when I swim BR. So, Allen and others, what corrections would you make to her stroke, if she could physically adapt them? I will apply those comments to my own swimming!

    I noticed that Elaine and I both use our head, physically that is, perhaps a bit too much during the breath and return to water? I do not feel that when I swim BR, but I have seen it in videos of me: we seem to throw our heads back to the water after breath. Should we be pressing downward/forward more with our (voluptuous !! JK) chests and letting head/neck stay straight?

    I am going to dig up a video of my BR and post for comments, too. TY in advance. Elaine - so glad to see you are back in the pond.

    Thanks, fellow FROG! Welcome back to you!


    Like you, I do not feel like I am bending my neck when I swim breaststroke. It feels like my head and neck are one unit. I have tried the ball under the chin trick to test myself; however, I have a very long neck, and I can't find the right size ball that isn't too small (or too big)!
    http://ElaineiaKsTravels.wordpress.com

    ~ Believing in your dreams can be far more rewarding than living by your limitations ~Karla Peterson

  10. #1350
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Here are links to short (< 10 secs each) videos of my breaststroke, from Aug 2014. When I re-looked at them just now, I think Elaine gets her head in a better streamline position than I do. I look forward to your expert commentaries, Forumites.

    Breaststroke:

  11. #1351
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    And another short one. (Just discovered only 1 link/posting, regardless of how short the video?)

    Breaststroke:


  12. #1352
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    And just one more short one:

  13. #1353
    Very Active Member Allen Stark's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Melinda,this is a very good breaststroke,but like anyone's,it can be better.You tend to recover your legs with your knees outside your ankles,which breaks streamline. You don't get a really good external rotation of your feet in the power phase of the kick.That may be a function of flexibility and if so stretching exercises may help. On the pull,you never get your elbows over your arms,you want something similar to freestyles EVF. The main thing though,is that you have very little hip undulation.You don't want much,many people have too much,but you could use more. At the beginning of the pull insweep arch you back and hips to move them toward the bottom of the pool.Then as you are shooting your hands forward on the recovery,forcefully reverse the motion. By not doing that you are forced to use your head to initiate the up and down motion and you also end up shooting your arms slightly down,instead of straight forward on the recovery.
    Also,not a correction,but a suggestion.On your pullout, you are doing the dolphin kick in the middle of your pulldown. This may be faster for you,but try the early dolphin kick(before you start the arm pull). In tests it has been shown to be faster and with the new rules there is very little risk of DQ, if you just pay attention to what you are doing.
    "To strive,to seek,to find,and not to yield" Tennyson
    Allen

  14. #1354
    aka Elaine-iaK & Aqua Dog ElaineK's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Hey, King Frog, now I can see why you didn't offer those same "corrections" to me in your comments. You're right in saying they are not physically possible at this point. Without a doubt, I would end up: .
    http://ElaineiaKsTravels.wordpress.com

    ~ Believing in your dreams can be far more rewarding than living by your limitations ~Karla Peterson

  15. #1355
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Great, great feedback.
    1. Since these videos and since the rule changed to allow kick while hands still together, I do the dolphin kick before the pull-down. I like it much better.

    2. My Ankle flexibility must be poor. About once a quarter (!). when I remember, I use therabands on those inflexible body parts. Think I should do them more frequently ... duh?!

    3. Since I resumed training this summer, I do all my BR kick with a pull buoy between my thighs or knees. Is this the best way to drill for knees together? I'm thinking a band might be better; it won't "float" my legs ...?

    4. I learned something new with your comment about undulation. I always thought BR'ers were to keep the entire body flat, from butt to head, and not allow an arch. During breath, push hip forward but do not arch. If I understand your comment, I should ARCH at the waist, right?

    5. EVF - yes, I always felt that my elbows were too low. What do your shoulders do during the insweep and breath and even recovery? ie - are they constantly hunched ?

    I am so psyched to drill BR today. TY for such an in-depth analysis. (I had my right shoulder re-constructed 10 years ago. As a result, I cannot streamline unless I grab that arm with the other arm, such as I do during a push off. I wonder if my inability to get that arm above my head by itself may be why my arms shoot out too deep during recovery? hmmm. I'll pay attention to that.)

  16. #1356
    Very Active Member Allen Stark's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by melinda View Post
    Great, great feedback.
    1. Since these videos and since the rule changed to allow kick while hands still together, I do the dolphin kick before the pull-down. I like it much better.

    2. My Ankle flexibility must be poor. About once a quarter (!). when I remember, I use therabands on those inflexible body parts. Think I should do them more frequently ... duh?!

    3. Since I resumed training this summer, I do all my BR kick with a pull buoy between my thighs or knees. Is this the best way to drill for knees together? I'm thinking a band might be better; it won't "float" my legs ...?

    4. I learned something new with your comment about undulation. I always thought BR'ers were to keep the entire body flat, from butt to head, and not allow an arch. During breath, push hip forward but do not arch. If I understand your comment, I should ARCH at the waist, right?

    5. EVF - yes, I always felt that my elbows were too low. What do your shoulders do during the insweep and breath and even recovery? ie - are they constantly hunched ?

    I am so psyched to drill BR today. TY for such an in-depth analysis. (I had my right shoulder re-constructed 10 years ago. As a result, I cannot streamline unless I grab that arm with the other arm, such as I do during a push off. I wonder if my inability to get that arm above my head by itself may be why my arms shoot out too deep during recovery? hmmm. I'll pay attention to that.)
    I work on ankle,knee and hip stretching 3-4X/wk.
    A band would probably be better.
    I don't see how you can push your hips forward with out some arching.It isn't much,2-3",about like dolphin kick.
    I shrug my shoulders towards the end of the insweep.I know some people recommend earlier and make it a conscious motion,but I see it as just part of going into streamline for the recovery.
    "To strive,to seek,to find,and not to yield" Tennyson
    Allen

  17. #1357
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    "At the beginning of the pull insweep arch you back and hips to move them toward the bottom of the pool.Then as you are shooting your hands forward on the recovery,forcefully reverse the motion. By not doing that you are forced to use your head to initiate the up and down motion and you also end up shooting your arms slightly down,instead of straight forward on the recovery." (Allen Stark)

    That is something you don't easily find in swimming books/articles. Really nice! I think that one more tip here is to relax your back as you do the insweep,
    so that it easily goes forward/down.

    Nice vids Melina!

  18. #1358
    aka Elaine-iaK & Aqua Dog ElaineK's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    King Frog, and my fellow Forumite frogs on the lily pad:

    The time has come to test out my hip a bit further, and see if I can start building my breaststroke back up. Until now, I have kicked very little breaststroke and have swum low yardage full breaststroke since my hip surgery. What do you see as the most serious flaws I should work on going forward? Your suggestions would be most appreciated! Thanks!!

    <span style="font-family:comic sans ms;"><font size="3"><span style="color:#0000cd;">
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    ~ Believing in your dreams can be far more rewarding than living by your limitations ~Karla Peterson

  19. #1359
    aka Elaine-iaK & Aqua Dog ElaineK's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Here's another video topside:
    <span style="font-family:comic sans ms;"><font size="3"><span style="color:#0000cd;">
    http://ElaineiaKsTravels.wordpress.com

    ~ Believing in your dreams can be far more rewarding than living by your limitations ~Karla Peterson

  20. #1360
    Very Active Member Allen Stark's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by ElaineK View Post
    King Frog, and my fellow Forumite frogs on the lily pad:

    The time has come to test out my hip a bit further, and see if I can start building my breaststroke back up. Until now, I have kicked very little breaststroke and have swum low yardage full breaststroke since my hip surgery. What do you see as the most serious flaws I should work on going forward? Your suggestions would be most appreciated! Thanks!!
    [FONT=comic sans ms][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000cd]]
    Given your shoulder and hip imitations, I think it looks really good. You do go deep on your arm recovery and your elbows are deep on the pull.I don't know if that is fixable given your shoulder limitations however.Your timing is very good.
    "To strive,to seek,to find,and not to yield" Tennyson
    Allen

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