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Thread: The Breaststroke Lane

  1. #1461
    Very Active Member Jimbosback's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by Allen Stark View Post
    Pretty sure USMS has a rule against diving from a block into such shallow water. If they don't they should, that is dangerous. I'm glad you weren't hurt.
    The pool where I swam when I was young (youth team and high school) was barely 4 feet, no deep end. It is still in use. At some point since I left, they drained it and lowered the bottom. I still don't think it is 6 feet. I am going next weekend to swim a high school alumni meet there. Starts should be interesting, since I am used to the deeper pools now.
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  2. #1462
    aka Elaine-iaK & Aqua Dog ElaineK's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by Allen Stark View Post
    Pretty sure USMS has a rule against diving from a block into such shallow water. If they don't they should, that is dangerous. I'm glad you weren't hurt.
    I agree. This was their 3rd sanctioned meet, so I assumed everything was "legal". I was going to do all in-water starts, but I decided at the end of warm-ups to give it a try. Doing one timid start from the deck was a good way to test the depth, and I just concentrated on keeping my dives very flat and shallow.
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  3. #1463
    aka Elaine-iaK & Aqua Dog ElaineK's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by Allen Stark View Post
    Pretty sure USMS has a rule against diving from a block into such shallow water. If they don't they should, that is dangerous. I'm glad you weren't hurt.
    They do have a rule, and Sewanee was in compliance:

    106.2.3 Water Depth
    A Starting end—Minimum water depth for racing starts, as measured for a distance of 3 feet, 3˝ inches (1.0 meter) to 16 feet, 5 inches (5.0 meters) from the end wall, during either competition or practice shall be as follows:

    (1) In pools with water depth less than 3 feet, 6 inches (1.07 meters) at the starting end;
    (a)The swimmer must start in the water. [M]
    (b) Backstroke starting ledges are not permitted. [M]

    (2) In pools with water depth 3 feet, 6 inches (1.07 meters) to less than 4 feet (1.22 meters) at the starting end, the swimmer must start from the deck or from in the water. Backstroke starting ledges are not permitted. [M]

    (3) In pools with water depth 4 feet (1.22 meters) or more at the starting end, platforms shall meet the height requirements of article 106.11.1. [M]

    B Racing course—Minimum water depth shall be 2 meters (6 feet, 7 inches) throughout the course. Based on facility availability, the Championship Committee may waive this requirement for national championship meets. [NC]

    106.11 Starting Platforms
    106.11.1 Height (subject to the provisions of article 106.2.3)

    A Long course and short course meters—The front edge of the starting platform shall be no less than .50 meter (1 foot, 8 inches) nor more than .75 meter (2 feet, 5˝ inches) above the surface of the water. [M]

    B Short course yards—The front edge of the starting platform shall be not higher than 2 feet, 6 inches (.762 meter) above the surface of the water. [M]


    [M*]—Predicated upon facility availability, LMSCs may waive strict
    compliance with these requirements when sanctioning local competition.

    [M]—Mandatory requirement; sanctioned events may be conducted in
    facilities not meeting these requirements but the results of those events
    shall not count for USMS records and Top 10. It must be noted in the meet
    information that events conducted in these facilities are noncompliant.

    [NC]—Mandatory requirement for national championship meets and international competition.
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    ~ Believing in your dreams can be far more rewarding than living by your limitations ~Karla Peterson

  4. #1464
    Very Active Member Allen Stark's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Barely!!!!
    "To strive,to seek,to find,and not to yield" Tennyson
    Allen

  5. #1465
    Very Active Member Jimbosback's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbosback View Post
    The pool where I swam when I was young (youth team and high school) was barely 4 feet, no deep end. It is still in use. At some point since I left, they drained it and lowered the bottom. I still don't think it is 6 feet. I am going next weekend to swim a high school alumni meet there. Starts should be interesting, since I am used to the deeper pools now.
    In case anyone was interested in this, I have the actual numbers. The pool used to be 3' 6" throughout. They lowered one end so that the starting side is 4' 6". The start was not that tough to adjust to, but the turn and pullout in 3 and a half feet, especially in breaststroke, were a little awkward.
    On taper since 2012

  6. #1466
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    I had a bad flare-up of a herniated disc (C6-7) that I've had over ten years and was on the shelf for about 3 weeks...no swimming at all. I saw an orthopedist, started PT and have now been back to swimming about two weeks.

    However, my physical therapist says "no breaststroke" (which is my stroke) for now because of lifting the repetitive motion of lifting the neck and putting it back into the water. I followed his advice for a while, but the last two workouts, I've "cheated" a bit and don't notice any pain or soreness. I'm thinking that if the stroke is done correctly, this is not really a valid concern. I'd don't want to be a disobedient patient, but I wonder how much the therapist knows about swimming.

    The real culprit for me seemed to be doing kicking set with my head out of the water. I've changed to keeping the board in front of me with my arms extended and breathing to the side as in freestyle.

  7. #1467
    Very Active Member Allen Stark's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Lifting your head on BR is a stroke flaw. Most people don't know this. If you are swimming correctly and it doesn't hurt, great.
    "To strive,to seek,to find,and not to yield" Tennyson
    Allen

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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Hello, all! I have been unable to swim / train since OCTOBER due to problems with BOTH shoulders and with my cervical spine (arthritis, stenosis) c6-7. It's been so difficult to give up working out, training, and competing. Nothing else can replace being in the water and pushing myself.

    I was doing PT every day for all issues. The shoulders responded and started to feel really good (ie, no pain while swimming easy) in January, but the neck was still bothersome, not only in the water but in daily functioning.

    Note: October - Feb, I would kick only, with a snorkel, so I did not have to lift or turn my head to breathe. That got old and boring, really fast. I began to test out my shoulders by swimming (still with snorkel) for several yards and things felt pretty good - although I did not push them by swimming fast and/or hard.

    I also tested my neck. Often I could swim (not anywhere near race pace, however) without snorkel for awhile (max 400 yds) without discomfort, and and as soon as I felt pain, I stopped. In February my PT suggested I go cold turkey for several weeks. That's where I am now.

    I did notice that my neck was - surprisingly - more aggravated by swimming BR vs. FR. I do not attribute that to raising my head with a bent neck, as I was still using a snorkel for full stroke BR and still had neck pain.

    I believe that shrugging my shoulders and engaging my traps during the BR in-sweep was the source of my neck discomfort. Does that make sense? My traps were so tight after swimming, despite stretching before and after, and rolling on rollers would release some of that tension. I asked my therapist for exercises to strengthen my traps but he says that will not help. That I need to get the lordosis / curve back into my neck, and to get my curving-inward shoulders back. So, the theraband exercises I do for my bum shoulders should also be helping my neck.

    I SOOOOOO miss swimming! I've taken this season off completely; I just hope I can return to competing. Of course I fear how detrimental taking this year off will be to my times. I was both lifted by and depressed by a letter I received this week, which informed me that I was being recognized as an All American Masters Swimmer for 2016. Lifted because of the recognition yet depressed because I'm not sure of my future swimming ability.

    Enough whining. I've dealt with worse (cancer, shoulder surgery, car accident, etc.) so the Phoenix will rise again ... in some way, shape or form.

    Good luck to all in CA!!

  9. #1469
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by melinda View Post
    Hello, all! I have been unable to swim / train since OCTOBER due to problems with BOTH shoulders and with my cervical spine (arthritis, stenosis) c6-7. It's been so difficult to give up working out, training, and competing. Nothing else can replace being in the water and pushing myself.

    I was doing PT every day for all issues. The shoulders responded and started to feel really good (ie, no pain while swimming easy) in January, but the neck was still bothersome, not only in the water but in daily functioning.

    Note: October - Feb, I would kick only, with a snorkel, so I did not have to lift or turn my head to breathe. That got old and boring, really fast. I began to test out my shoulders by swimming (still with snorkel) for several yards and things felt pretty good - although I did not push them by swimming fast and/or hard.

    I also tested my neck. Often I could swim (not anywhere near race pace, however) without snorkel for awhile (max 400 yds) without discomfort, and and as soon as I felt pain, I stopped. In February my PT suggested I go cold turkey for several weeks. That's where I am now.

    I did notice that my neck was - surprisingly - more aggravated by swimming BR vs. FR. I do not attribute that to raising my head with a bent neck, as I was still using a snorkel for full stroke BR and still had neck pain.

    I believe that shrugging my shoulders and engaging my traps during the BR in-sweep was the source of my neck discomfort. Does that make sense? My traps were so tight after swimming, despite stretching before and after, and rolling on rollers would release some of that tension. I asked my therapist for exercises to strengthen my traps but he says that will not help. That I need to get the lordosis / curve back into my neck, and to get my curving-inward shoulders back. So, the theraband exercises I do for my bum shoulders should also be helping my neck.

    I SOOOOOO miss swimming! I've taken this season off completely; I just hope I can return to competing. Of course I fear how detrimental taking this year off will be to my times. I was both lifted by and depressed by a letter I received this week, which informed me that I was being recognized as an All American Masters Swimmer for 2016. Lifted because of the recognition yet depressed because I'm not sure of my future swimming ability.

    Enough whining. I've dealt with worse (cancer, shoulder surgery, car accident, etc.) so the Phoenix will rise again ... in some way, shape or form.

    Good luck to all in CA!!
    Well, here's a video of something I do but don't use the pacer in a cap. Its kicking breaststroke on your back. I have the hands at the side.

  10. #1470
    aka Elaine-iaK & Aqua Dog ElaineK's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Hey, King Frog! I saw you hangin' around today at Atlanta Botanical Garden!

    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	11094Click image for larger version. 

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    http://ElaineiaKsTravels.wordpress.com

    ~ Believing in your dreams can be far more rewarding than living by your limitations ~Karla Peterson

  11. #1471
    aka Elaine-iaK & Aqua Dog ElaineK's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Hey, fellow frogs, our king of the lily pad, KING FROG, is now writing for Swimspire, too! Check his first article out HERE. By the way, if you would like to see the video from that 2011 shot of him swimming (and breaking the World Record in the 200 Breaststroke, check it out below. He's in the black cap, Lane 5:<span style="font-family:comic sans ms;"><font size="3"><span style="color:#0000cd;">
    http://ElaineiaKsTravels.wordpress.com

    ~ Believing in your dreams can be far more rewarding than living by your limitations ~Karla Peterson

  12. #1472
    Very Active Member Sportygeek's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by Nichollsvi View Post
    Has anyone any idea how the Paralympic swimmers swim breast? My legs and feet are not exactly that functional (hee hee) so I'd like some tips on getting them to actually do anything. I've always done breast just the arms. So far its been all legal but would be nice to add the legs.


    I'm a swimmer with a disability who races both Masters and para events. I'm not primarily a breaststroker, but I train breast for IM. I have a very pull-dominant breast, but attempt to kick. I have friends who swim breaststroke arms-only.

    Most of the best arms-only breaststrokers swim with a high stroke rate - my favourite example is Kirsten Bruhn, who won the SB5 100m breaststroke gold medal in 2004, 2008 and 2012. Her race stroke rate was almost 60 cycles/minute. Her 100m breast PB, set at age 42, is 1:33.85 - this not only still stands as the World Record in her classification, but would be close to USMS Top 10 most years for a W40-44 swimmer.

    I get no catch with my feet (I can't flex them or turn them out at all), but I have decent undulation and useful (though not normal) movement in my upper legs. If you are functionally relatively similar, have a look at what swimmers like double leg amputee Jessica Long are doing. Or swimmers like Evan Austin (lane 8 closest to the camera here). I can also get some video of my own breaststroke, if you would like. Some swimmers with partial leg function choose to swim arms-only, even at the highest level. Jacqui Freney (an IMer, not a breaststroker) is one.

    Warning: USMS rules say "In judging the stroke or kick of a swimmer with a physical disability, the referee and stroke and turn judge should follow the general rule that if a part of the body is absent or cannot be used, it is not judged; if it is used during the stroke or kick, it should be judged in accordance with the USMS rules." This mean that those of us who have partial leg function and cannot do a legal breaststroke kick are far more likely to be DQed if we attempt to kick than if we do not use our legs at all. Some meet referees will allow 'attempt to kick' if you speak with them first, however.
    Last edited by Sportygeek; July 14th, 2017 at 03:18 AM.
    Para-swimmer, permanently stuck in the same Age Group as Linley Frame.

  13. #1473

    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Thanks! I think we are somewhat similar in our issues. I can "sort of" kick but there is no efficiency in it at all. I so appreciate the links. I will take a look at these. Glad to finally meet someone else on here who is in the same boat. They normally don't judge it. They do give me some slack on it, ok a really good amount of slack for the kick as I talk to them about the issue. I can't do more than a 100 yards and that is really pushing it, so when I attempt 200, they allow me to give them a giggle on the 100 and then do the stroke only the last 100. On a separate note, if you would like to start up something on the other strokes in another (appropriate) area, I'd love to chat.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sportygeek View Post
    I'm a swimmer with a disability who races both Masters and para events. I'm not primarily a breaststroker, but I train breast for IM. I have a very pull-dominant breast, but attempt to kick. I have friends who swim breaststroke arms-only. Most of the best arms-only breaststrokers swim with a high stroke rate - my favourite example is Kirsten Bruhn, who won the SB5 100m breaststroke gold medal in 2004, 2008 and 2012. Her race stroke rate was almost 60 cycles/minute. Her 100m breast PB, set at age 42, is 1:33.85 - this not only still stands as the World Record in her classification, but would be close to USMS Top 10 most years for a W40-44 swimmer. I get no catch with my feet (I can't flex them or turn them out at all), but I have decent undulation and useful (though not normal) movement in my upper legs. If you are functionally relatively similar, have a look at what swimmers like double leg amputee Jessica Long are doing. Or swimmers like Evan Austin (lane 8 closest to the camera here). I can also get some video of my own breaststroke, if you would like. Some swimmers with partial leg function choose to swim arms-only, even at the highest level. Jacqui Freney (an IMer, not a breaststroker) is one. Warning: USMS rules say "In judging the stroke or kick of a swimmer with a physical disability, the referee and stroke and turn judge should follow the general rule that if a part of the body is absent or cannot be used, it is not judged; if it is used during the stroke or kick, it should be judged in accordance with the USMS rules." This mean that those of us who have partial leg function and cannot do a legal breaststroke kick are far more likely to be DQed if we attempt to kick than if we do not use our legs at all. Some meet referees will allow 'attempt to kick' if you speak with them first, however.

  14. #1474
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by Nichollsvi View Post
    Thanks! I think we are somewhat similar in our issues. I can "sort of" kick but there is no efficiency in it at all. I so appreciate the links. I will take a look at these. Glad to finally meet someone else on here who is in the same boat. They normally don't judge it. They do give me some slack on it, ok a really good amount of slack for the kick as I talk to them about the issue. I can't do more than a 100 yards and that is really pushing it, so when I attempt 200, they allow me to give them a giggle on the 100 and then do the stroke only the last 100. On a separate note, if you would like to start up something on the other strokes in another (appropriate) area, I'd love to chat.

    Well, my kick doesn't have the power it used to. I practice it but can't swim too many laps fast on breastroke kick or any other stroke kick. I swim 100 I'm with kicks and pulls. I went from 2:01 100 yard I'm to 2:21. Most in the 2:14 range swimming about eight of them. This helps to do 100's which are harder if they are all strokes.

  15. #1475

    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    That's more than I can do. I get a lot of problem at the end with the right foot and some of the leg being able to do the "rounder" part of the stroke. It shoots out sort of, but afterwards, the upper leg has to pull it in more so than the whole leg. Any ideas. PS Thanks for the youtube videos.
    Quote Originally Posted by cinc3100 View Post
    Well, my kick doesn't have the power it used to. I practice it but can't swim too many laps fast on breastroke kick or any other stroke kick. I swim 100 I'm with kicks and pulls. I went from 2:01 100 yard I'm to 2:21. Most in the 2:14 range swimming about eight of them. This helps to do 100's which are harder if they are all strokes.

  16. #1476
    Very Active Member Sumorunner's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    I've never had any instruction on proper breaststroke technique and I only do it as a rest lap from time to time. Mostly I've trained for open water swims even though my freestyle is rather poor since I lack any kick. I'd drown before I could get 25 whole yards kick-only. But a few weeks ago during a masters team practice I was doing it for a recovery lap and the coach said, "You ought to compete in breast. You have pretty good form." What do I need to do to develop a decent 50 or 100 yd breaststroke?

  17. #1477
    Very Active Member Allen Stark's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by Sumorunner View Post
    I've never had any instruction on proper breaststroke technique and I only do it as a rest lap from time to time. Mostly I've trained for open water swims even though my freestyle is rather poor since I lack any kick. I'd drown before I could get 25 whole yards kick-only. But a few weeks ago during a masters team practice I was doing it for a recovery lap and the coach said, "You ought to compete in breast. You have pretty good form." What do I need to do to develop a decent 50 or 100 yd breaststroke?
    Since you have a coach,I'd suggest you start by asking him/her. If you want tips on your form just get a video and post it for our review. Technique is important in all strokes, but especially in BR. If you have a natural kick it may be pretty easy, but even then timing is vital.
    "To strive,to seek,to find,and not to yield" Tennyson
    Allen

  18. #1478
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by Nichollsvi View Post
    That's more than I can do. I get a lot of problem at the end with the right foot and some of the leg being able to do the "rounder" part of the stroke. It shoots out sort of, but afterwards, the upper leg has to pull it in more so than the whole leg. Any ideas. PS Thanks for the youtube videos.
    I did 1,650 yards by kicking 50 and pulling 50 and then doing a 100 I'm waiting about 2 minutes, less than 20 seconds on kick and pulls.. 8 times I'm and about 17 kicks and pulls, mainly breastroke on kick. I make up my weird workouts.

  19. #1479
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by Allen Stark View Post
    Since you have a coach,I'd suggest you start by asking him/her. If you want tips on your form just get a video and post it for our review. Technique is important in all strokes, but especially in BR. If you have a natural kick it may be pretty easy, but even then timing is vital.

    Probably, he needs timing lessons.

  20. #1480

    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Congratulations!!!

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