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Thread: The Breaststroke Lane

  1. #1481
    Very Active Member Sumorunner's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Timing. That's what I was looking for, now I can go look it up and try to practice. BTW, I'm not working with a coach for the summer, so maybe I can work on it a bit and see what she thinks when I return in Sep.

  2. #1482
    aka Elaine-iaK & Aqua Dog ElaineK's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    This training article is a MUST READ by our very own King Frog : http://www.swimspire.com/swimming-training-philosophy-and-practice-with-dr-allen-stark/

    Thanks, King Frog, for croaking a great article!
    http://ElaineiaKsTravels.wordpress.com

    ~ Believing in your dreams can be far more rewarding than living by your limitations ~Karla Peterson

  3. #1483
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by ElaineK View Post
    This training article is a MUST READ by our very own King Frog : http://www.swimspire.com/swimming-training-philosophy-and-practice-with-dr-allen-stark/

    Thanks, King Frog, for croaking a great article!
    Allen - thanks for great article. However, I am a bit confused by this: For sprinters, Rushall recommends swimming 25s on the 4 minutes to give plenty of time to make each one as perfect as possible.

    That statament seems to conflict with the Rushall's USRPT set you described in first paragraph which is to swim up to 30 x 25's (shooting for target time) with just :15 secs RI ... not 4 minutes.

    could you clarify that for us?

  4. #1484
    Very Active Member Allen Stark's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    The 25s with 15 second rest are for 100 pace, not for 50 pace. For 50 pace Rushall originally recommended 4 sets of 6X12.5(1/2 length) with 10 sec rest between 1/2 lengths. He now has the above recommendation. Again, that is for AFAP,where as the 25s with 15 sec rest are 100 pace.
    "To strive,to seek,to find,and not to yield" Tennyson
    Allen

  5. #1485
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Ah, that makes sense now. After about 3-4 months of modified swimming (due to shoulder and neck issues), I had to take 4 months off from ANY swimming, thus missing an entire season of training and racing. I've been back to the pool since June and look forward to resuming USRPT. YEA!

    I have set a very aggressive goal of 1:20 for 100 yd BR. (My best time 4 years ago was 1:18.9; then in 2016, 1:20.8. Is 1:20 unrealistic goal, do you think?) . This means, my target time for the n x 25 BR is :20, on the :40. (I KNOW I could not do these on the :35, ie with :15 RI). In my past USRPT practices, I was unable to swim < :21 for 25 BR.

    So, this makes me think, I should readjust my 100 goal time to 1:24 to start, and then if/when I make :21 for the entire set, lower my goal time and target time for USRPT sets ...

    Whaddya think?

  6. #1486
    Very Active Member Allen Stark's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by melinda View Post
    Ah, that makes sense now. After about 3-4 months of modified swimming (due to shoulder and neck issues), I had to take 4 months off from ANY swimming, thus missing an entire season of training and racing. I've been back to the pool since June and look forward to resuming USRPT. YEA!

    I have set a very aggressive goal of 1:20 for 100 yd BR. (My best time 4 years ago was 1:18.9; then in 2016, 1:20.8. Is 1:20 unrealistic goal, do you think?) . This means, my target time for the n x 25 BR is :20, on the :40. (I KNOW I could not do these on the :35, ie with :15 RI). In my past USRPT practices, I was unable to swim < :21 for 25 BR.

    So, this makes me think, I should readjust my 100 goal time to 1:24 to start, and then if/when I make :21 for the entire set, lower my goal time and target time for USRPT sets ...

    Whaddya think?
    I think go for it with the 1:20 as a goal, but I also agree with starting with 21 as a goal time for now,especially since you had time off. Since you are starting back, be very conservative about the fails.Better to do only a few to failure than to to do too much too soon. Good luck in getting back into a rhythm.
    "To strive,to seek,to find,and not to yield" Tennyson
    Allen

  7. #1487
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    I swam before your reply. I decided to set the target to :20 and try 20 x 25 yd BR on :40.

    I surprised myself by holding the :20 except for #6, #12, #18, Hey, maybe a 9-month taper was all I needed!

    I am easing back into training by getting into the pool every other day vs. 6 days/week, like I used to. And, less yardage than my "usual" of the past.

  8. #1488
    Very Active Member Allen Stark's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by melinda View Post
    I swam before your reply. I decided to set the target to :20 and try 20 x 25 yd BR on :40.

    I surprised myself by holding the :20 except for #6, #12, #18, Hey, maybe a 9-month taper was all I needed!

    I am easing back into training by getting into the pool every other day vs. 6 days/week, like I used to. And, less yardage than my "usual" of the past.
    Wow, good job.
    "To strive,to seek,to find,and not to yield" Tennyson
    Allen

  9. #1489
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by Allen Stark View Post
    The 25s with 15 second rest are for 100 pace, not for 50 pace. For 50 pace Rushall originally recommended 4 sets of 6X12.5(1/2 length) with 10 sec rest between 1/2 lengths. He now has the above recommendation. Again, that is for AFAP,where as the 25s with 15 sec rest are 100 pace.
    Here's another question related to USRPT: For 50 training, we do 25's AFAP on 4 mins. For 100 training (like I did yesterday), we do n x 25's with :15 RI at "100 pace". Yet, for me to make my target of :20, I had to swim AFAP/ all out, not at "100 pace" (ie, 90% speed).

    Am I being too literal? Were my 25's of USRPT supposed to be AFAP or was I supposed to dial down the effort? (If I did, I would not have made my target time, though) ...?

  10. #1490
    Very Active Member robertsrobson's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by melinda View Post
    Here's another question related to USRPT: For 50 training, we do 25's AFAP on 4 mins. For 100 training (like I did yesterday), we do n x 25's with :15 RI at "100 pace". Yet, for me to make my target of :20, I had to swim AFAP/ all out, not at "100 pace" (ie, 90% speed).

    Am I being too literal? Were my 25's of USRPT supposed to be AFAP or was I supposed to dial down the effort? (If I did, I would not have made my target time, though) ...?
    Your target time should relate to your 100 target time, and shouldn't be quite AFAP. Don't include the first length when calculating the target time or it will essentially be AFAP.

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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Has anyone ever gotten hyaluronic acid injections (viscosupplement) for their knees? Do they work? I am considering this option posed by my doctor for osteoarthritis. The simpler, more sane option is to just give up breaststroke (and IM). NEVER!!!!
    Not sure what to do. I can get through enough lengths to complete an event, but I'm not able to practice enough breaststroke to be satisfied with my times. I could load up on Ibuprofen everyday, but that's not a great solution.
    Anybody have experience with osteoarthritis, or have any words of wisdom/encouragement?
    I'm too young to be this old!!!

  12. #1492
    Very Active Member Allen Stark's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by BettyL View Post
    Has anyone ever gotten hyaluronic acid injections (viscosupplement) for their knees? Do they work? I am considering this option posed by my doctor for osteoarthritis. The simpler, more sane option is to just give up breaststroke (and IM). NEVER!!!!
    Not sure what to do. I can get through enough lengths to complete an event, but I'm not able to practice enough breaststroke to be satisfied with my times. I could load up on Ibuprofen everyday, but that's not a great solution.
    Anybody have experience with osteoarthritis, or have any words of wisdom/encouragement?
    I'm too young to be this old!!!
    I believe I know a swimmer who had the injections with a good result(Jim,am I right?) Due to my chronic knee issues I do very little actual breaststroke in workouts, maybe 200 in warm up and 250 of race pace work. I do most of my sets BR pull/dolphin kick with fins. I also do a fair amount of eggbeater kicking which uses the same muscles, but with less knee strain(for me at least, YMMV)
    "To strive,to seek,to find,and not to yield" Tennyson
    Allen

  13. #1493
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Thanks for the tips. I have been doing things like breaststroke with dolphin kick or pull buoy, also, working on sculling and anything else I can think of that is part of the breaststroke but avoiding the kick. I'll try some eggbeater. I'm glad to hear it might still be possible for me to be OK without practicing much full stroke.

  14. #1494
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by melinda View Post
    I swam before your reply. I decided to set the target to :20 and try 20 x 25 yd BR on :40.

    I surprised myself by holding the :20 except for #6, #12, #18, Hey, maybe a 9-month taper was all I needed!

    I am easing back into training by getting into the pool every other day vs. 6 days/week, like I used to. And, less yardage than my "usual" of the past.
    Hey, welcome back Melinda! It's great that you are back in the pool.

  15. #1495
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Breaststroke saves my a$$ in open water swims. It's always been my favorite through age-group, high school, and college swimming. The best ever.

  16. #1496
    aka Elaine-iaK & Aqua Dog ElaineK's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by cmolnar65 View Post
    Breaststroke saves my a$$ in open water swims. It's always been my favorite through age-group, high school, and college swimming. The best ever.
    That makes you a true frog, 65! That brings back memories, too. When I was a kid growing up in Long Beach, California, I used to go out in Alamitos Bay during the summers and swim breaststroke the entire length of the bay (roundtrip). It wasn't until I joined USMS that I really developed a love for freestyle as well.
    http://ElaineiaKsTravels.wordpress.com

    ~ Believing in your dreams can be far more rewarding than living by your limitations ~Karla Peterson

  17. #1497
    Very Active Member Sumorunner's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    How to learn proper breast technique? I have good lung capacity from several decades of running, so I've always done 2 strokes per breath. Don't even raise the head above water half the time. Is that normal? And I don't glide for very long. What good is that glide I see people doing? It always seemed to me that any time not stroking is slowing you down. I only took up regular swimming a few years ago in my mid-60s.

  18. #1498
    Very Active Member __steve__'s Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Relating to scenic OW swimming, Breaststroke in open water allows you see everything above and below the surface, also lets you quickly change directions. Great for swimming over shallow reefs or near rocks with current and waves, just seems safer. If I need to move quickly though, itís freestyle for a moment.

  19. #1499
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by ElaineK View Post
    That makes you a true frog, 65! That brings back memories, too. When I was a kid growing up in Long Beach, California, I used to go out in Alamitos Bay during the summers and swim breaststroke the entire length of the bay (roundtrip). It wasn't until I joined USMS that I really developed a love for freestyle as well.
    I sink with backstroke and butterfly is evil. I talked about my freestyle problem in another thread.

  20. #1500
    Very Active Member Allen Stark's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by Sumorunner View Post
    How to learn proper breast technique? I have good lung capacity from several decades of running, so I've always done 2 strokes per breath. Don't even raise the head above water half the time. Is that normal? And I don't glide for very long. What good is that glide I see people doing? It always seemed to me that any time not stroking is slowing you down. I only took up regular swimming a few years ago in my mid-60s.
    There a some who posit that breathing every other stroke would be faster in sprints, but none of the elites do that. For most, the in sweep raises the torso so that the head is coming up enough that you might as well breathe.As for the glide, it is a matter of conserving energy. If you kick is powerful and you streamline well you can go some distance with relatively little deceleration. The fewer strokes you take the less energy you expend. Not important in a 50, very important in a 200.
    "To strive,to seek,to find,and not to yield" Tennyson
    Allen

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