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Thread: The Breaststroke Lane

  1. #141
    Very Active Member Allen Stark's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Your stroke is muck better than when you first posted.There is a lot of glare so I couldn't see the fine points.I thought your hips were OK,you bring your head up a little high sometimes ,especially off the pullout in the 200.I was surprised how well paced your 100 was as you seemed to die at the end(34.31,38.76)The 200 was not well paced and you really died.Most of the stroke faults the 2nd 100 were related to fatigue.Maybe it was mostly due to the end of the meet factor,but I also thought you went out too fast.Your splits were 36.21,41.35,43.96,44.85.That means your 1st 50 was only less than 2 sec slower than your 1st 50 in the 100.I think if you had gone out 1/2-1 sec slower you'd have finished faster.Gutsy swim though!!
    "To strive,to seek,to find,and not to yield" Tennyson
    Allen

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    Very Fetching Rump SwimStud's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by Allen Stark View Post
    Your stroke is muck better than when you first posted.There is a lot of glare so I couldn't see the fine points.I thought your hips were OK,you bring your head up a little high sometimes ,especially off the pullout in the 200.I was surprised how well paced your 100 was as you seemed to die at the end(34.31,38.76)The 200 was not well paced and you really died.Most of the stroke faults the 2nd 100 were related to fatigue.Maybe it was mostly due to the end of the meet factor,but I also thought you went out too fast.Your splits were 36.21,41.35,43.96,44.85.That means your 1st 50 was only less than 2 sec slower than your 1st 50 in the 100.I think if you had gone out 1/2-1 sec slower you'd have finished faster.Gutsy swim though!!
    Thanks Allen...I didn't intend to go nuts on the front 100 but I think I'm a bit of a sprinter and it may take a bit of mental control to hold off going too fast. Check out my splits from last year and then the 200 from Nats...you're dead on with the analysis. I went out a 1:19 and came home in 1:25 last year. This year's race I think overall meet fatigue was a slight factor but I brought that small piano on myself...

    Zones 09
    Leg Cumulative Subtractive
    1
    37.90 37.90 2 1:19.05 41.15
    3
    2:02.92 43.87 4 2:45.47 42.55

    Zones 10
    Leg Cumulative Subtractive
    1
    36.21 36.21 2 1:17.56 41.35
    3
    2:01.52 43.96 4 2:46.37 44.85

    With the 100BR I definitely tried to keep it long in the last few strokes...it wasn't fatigue...just a bad idea, so maybe next time I'll just keep up the tempo. I liked the first 75 of the swim though...

    So if you think the hip undulation is OK, then I will not worry too much...but maybe not try to make it happen...and focus on getting my hips forward clean to lift the torso which should help the head position. Thanks for input...most useful.



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  3. #143
    Very Active Member Peter Cruise's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Stud- I echo Allen's comments about your improvement from watching the 100br; you've come a long way. However, the 200 was a different matter esp, as the camera angle allowed more isolation on you. In both races you need to attack your turns and get more out of your pullout and on the 200 it was obvious that you're not getting the propulsion that you should from your legs. You are appearing to have your arms doing too much of your work; they will tire and tie up faster than leg muscles. Plus you are initiating your glide from your arms and undulation (it seems) rather than from a strong leg kick which should be the genesis of a brief streamlined glide. As I said, you have already come a long way, Roque Santos should beware!
    Life keeps throwing curve balls; the trick, I'm learning, is to duck...

  4. #144
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    You were under water more than everyone else. Maybe less O2 also played a role in the splits?

  5. #145
    Participating Member rdeclercq's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    All related to the 100 Br:
    The initial start is great; the further you can go in the streamline position, the better off you are! I echo a couple comments about the glide/kick. When making that kick, try to "snap" your backside (up), which will give that little extra umph going into the glide. I agree that you seem to be a bit underwater (which is great if you're gliding).

    I don't know if its worth considering to not bring your hands out so far; instead keep them to the width of your body. Otherwise, you're powering the side of you and not, well, you. A tighter pull might also provide for a quicker movement into the glide. Think of it like the chain link on a bike: that smaller gear takes greater input but the power output has a much greater ratio.

    And yes, keep the head down! Great swim!
    Swim hard - Tri harder

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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by __steve__ View Post
    You were under water more than everyone else. Maybe less O2 also played a role in the splits?
    Maybe all that hospitality food I'd been eating all weekend played a role in the underwater bit too?

    Hehe Steve, I do try to max my pullouts and normally, I am fine. I think I was physically done by the 200...It was my 4th event of the day including a relay & it was a rough swim. Plus I just did the 50 FR too.
    That said to have a bt of a piano and still be 1 sec off my previous best...I'm not to disheartened...I just have to go easier next time.
    Do you see anything in the stroke (probably more in the first 100 of the 200) to work on?

    Peter and Rob
    Thanks for the comments. I'll be tinkering with leg and kick and seeing if I can get some improvement in power by not over doing that undulation. I think everyone is seeing the same thing and expressing it slightly differently. I wish I had my 50 on tape.



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  7. #147
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Hey Stud, I was in that same heat of the 200 breast. (You can see the ref on the way to DQ me for a false start on your 4th lap...) I'll post my video too, but I haven't managed to find time to upload it yet.

    I'll be looking for stroke advice, too, and I'm probably not qualified to offer much to you. But I'll point out that in the 200 your stroke count faded from ~7 at the start of the race (5 on the first lap!) to ~9 at the end of the race (10 on your 7th lap).

    I had some piano issues in that race, myself, with a 7-second difference between my front and back 100s. The 200 BR is definitely a tough race to swim last.

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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by sjstuart View Post
    Hey Stud, I was in that same heat of the 200 breast. (You can see the ref on the way to DQ me for a false start on your 4th lap...) I'll post my video too, but I haven't managed to find time to upload it yet.

    I'll be looking for stroke advice, too, and I'm probably not qualified to offer much to you. But I'll point out that in the 200 your stroke count faded from ~7 at the start of the race (5 on the first lap!) to ~9 at the end of the race (10 on your 7th lap).

    I had some piano issues in that race, myself, with a 7-second difference between my front and back 100s. The 200 BR is definitely a tough race to swim last.
    Hey...I wish I'd known! That has to be the worst to DQ in that event on the last day...man, I feel for you.

    Yeah it was a rough swim last thing...more of a "well I'm here ...so let's do this" kind of deal.



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  9. #149
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by SwimStud View Post
    That has to be the worst to DQ in that event on the last day...man, I feel for you.
    At least I didn't know until I finished. I swam hard and crushed my PR. The time may not be official, but I was very happy with the swim. Now I know I can hit that time again someday.

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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by sjstuart View Post
    At least I didn't know until I finished. I swam hard and crushed my PR. The time may not be official, but I was very happy with the swim. Now I know I can hit that time again someday.
    Way to be positive! Yup watch out next rinky-dink YMCA pool meet!!
    It's exactly how I feel about my swim..I died horribly but within a second of my best...there's a sure drop in the future for me...and the rest of my meet was awesome.



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  11. #151
    Very Active Member Glider's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Steve

    Congrats on the PR. What lane were you in? Are you heading to the meet in Athens next weekend? If so, see you there.

    Mark

    Quote Originally Posted by sjstuart View Post
    At least I didn't know until I finished. I swam hard and crushed my PR. The time may not be official, but I was very happy with the swim. Now I know I can hit that time again someday.
    If you don't know where you are going, you'll end up someplace else. Yogi Berra

  12. #152
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    It's not quite a PR, since it doesn't exist on paper...

    I was in lane 7. Not visible on SwimStud's video, but I'll post mine soon.

    I saw you in passing at the meet a few times, but didn't manage to say hi. I did see you had some very nice swims, including a beautifully paced/split 200 breast.

    Edit: I won't be in Athens. I'll be swimming the open-water race in Clemson that weekend.
    Edit again: it's actually the open-water race in Charleston that keeps me from Athens.
    Last edited by sjstuart; June 1st, 2010 at 10:01 AM.

  13. #153
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    hi everyone,
    lately i worked out more on my legs and probably overloaded them. i feel strain (only) when kicking in water. how do you deal with this? the idea of not swimming a week or so 2 months prior Goteburg is daunting. do you think light streching, working out in the gym (i have no problem doing squats) and swimming everything exept BR can help? what are your experiences with knees? how do you take care of them?
    thanks

  14. #154
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Sore knees are definitely a common problem among breaststrokers. I know I'm often near the border between minor joint pain and actual injury.

    Taking a week off now, in the middle of your peak training period, may not sound good. But it's probably better than taking 3 weeks off later, or not being able to race well (or at all) because your knees are too tweaked.

    It helps to track how many meters of BR kick you do per workout or per week, and don't increase too quickly. When ramping up distance AND switching to a BR focus you can add too much without realizing it.

    Stretching and strengthening can definitely help, for prevention as much as rehab. Focus on exercises that strengthen the stabilizing muscles, like one-legged squats or standing leg abduction with an elastic band.

    And working on other strokes, or doing BR drills with flutter or fly kick, can give your knees a rest while you build fitness. You'll still remember how to kick after a week off, don't worry.

  15. #155
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Okay, here's my 200 BR video from Nationals. Same heat as SwimStud, but across the pool. I'll post the 50 and 100 also. Any feedback is welcome.

    Stuff I know about: the DQ for a false start in the 200 is a fair call, although I had no idea I was leaning. I surfaced a little too quickly in all of my breakouts. My 200 wasn't very well paced. My stroke rate faded from ~7 to ~9 too.

    Stuff I don't know about: head position? turnover? any other technique advice, if you can see anything from above the water surface.

    200: [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmPxqGDhUQs"]YouTube- Steve's 200 Breaststroke 10-05-23[/nomedia]
    (lane 7, bright green cap. Splits :31.61, :36.27, :36.85, :38.36)

    100: [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ta5escui6jg"]YouTube- Steve 100 BR[/nomedia]
    (lane 2, bright green cap, splits :30.73, :34.81)

    50: [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-hLLGu2h2A"]YouTube- Steve 50 BR[/nomedia]
    (lane 2, dark green cap, :29.84)

  16. #156
    Very Active Member Glider's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Steve:

    Very nice swim. 2:23 is a great time, over a 5 second drop. Congrats. I don't have any feedback other than what you've already noted. You were out fairly fast. Bet that last 50 really hurt ;-)

    You can see my 100 split in lane 10 of the odd pool scoreboard at the end of your race. I split 32.4, 36.4, 36.9, 35.5.

    Quote Originally Posted by sjstuart View Post
    Okay, here's my 200 BR video from Nationals. Same heat as SwimStud, but across the pool. I'll post the 50 and 100 also. Any feedback is welcome.

    Stuff I know about: the DQ for a false start in the 200 is a fair call, although I had no idea I was leaning. I surfaced a little too quickly in all of my breakouts. My 200 wasn't very well paced. My stroke rate faded from ~7 to ~9 too.

    Stuff I don't know about: head position? turnover? any other technique advice, if you can see anything from above the water surface.

    200: YouTube- Steve's 200 Breaststroke 10-05-23
    (lane 7, bright green cap. Splits :31.61, :36.27, :36.85, :38.36)

    100: YouTube- Steve 100 BR
    (lane 2, bright green cap, splits :30.73, :34.81)

    50: YouTube- Steve 50 BR
    (lane 2, dark green cap, :29.84)
    If you don't know where you are going, you'll end up someplace else. Yogi Berra

  17. #157
    Very Active Member Allen Stark's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Steve,I just have a minute now and will look at the swims more later.I have only had a chance to see the 200.Good job,but what I notice is you are not getting your head down between your arms on the glide.Doing so will really help your DPS.More later.
    "To strive,to seek,to find,and not to yield" Tennyson
    Allen

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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Steve and Mark...
    We need to do a better job of keeping track of each other. It would have been nice to have watched or at least shaken hands with you guys after the "200BR of Death" at the end of nationals...I guess we'll have to paper trail each other for now

    Steve you're way faster than me so take my input with pinch of salt. It could be the camera being close up but your starting pullout on the 100 looked a bit rushed, but as you noted...maybe my longer one hurt my splits. If you can or want to try a longer one sometime at a less important meet and let me know how you find your time. I found the longer UW worked shave off about 4 seconds over this season wth little else int he way of focused work on the 100...so I'm not convinced that faster breakout means a faster overall swim for me. I'd love to see how it works or doesn't work for you.

    BTW...nice tempo to your swim.



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  19. #159
    Very Active Member Glider's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Rich: I had 4 different strategies in mind for the 200 BR race, for which I have such a love/hate relationship:

    1. Scratch
    2. Split a 50 trying for a PB, then cruise
    3. Long and strong for 150 then hit the gas
    4. Go for it and most likely die the last 100

    I ended up choosing # 3 being as this was the last event of the meet and the 6th event for me.

    Steve: Looked at all your races. You seem to get better performances in the longer races vs. the sprints. Wondering how much BR speed work you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by SwimStud View Post
    ..."200BR of Death" at the end of nationals...
    Last edited by Glider; June 1st, 2010 at 01:48 PM.
    If you don't know where you are going, you'll end up someplace else. Yogi Berra

  20. #160
    Very Active Member swimmj's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaststroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by SwimStud View Post
    Steve and Mark...
    We need to do a better job of keeping track of each other. It would have been nice to have watched or at least shaken hands with you guys after the "200BR of Death" at the end of nationals...I guess we'll have to paper trail each other for now
    I think the "200BR of Death" is perfectly named. It's exactly how that felt. I was off my best time by 6 seconds (fighting a groin pull and exhaustion) and now have a mental note to check my sanity next time the thought of doing a 200 of stroke at the end of nats crosses my mind.

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