The Sprint Free Lane

[__steve__]

How many breaths do you take for a LCM 50? Do you endure most of it without air then take a couple breaths the rest of the way, or do you use a consistant but lean, breathing pattern going from the start?

Also, do you count strokes during the race? Have my first ever LCM this weekend, doing 50, 100, and 200 fr events. Cant wait, but I haven't spent too much time in LCM.

[fmracing]

How many breaths do you take for a LCM 50? Do you endure most of it without air then take a couple breaths the rest of the way, or do you use a consistant but lean, breathing pattern going from the start?

I try to take as few breaths as possible. Haven't swam it in a long time but i have a 50 lcm free coming up in about a week and a half. It's my intention to do it without breathing. I n actual execution however, I suspect it'll be one breath somewhere around the 3/4 pool mark. Way back I used to do it all the time without a breath. This is for a 50 only. In a 100 race I breath every 4th stroke and go every 3rd or 5th if i need to see people in the lanes next to me.

It's funny about stroke numbers. Before I came to this forum, I can count on one hand the amount of times i ever heard anyone talk about how many strokes per length they take. This is between high school, 4 years of college, and 3 USA-S club teams. Not one coach I ever had focused on number of strokes per length. It surprised me to come on this forum and see how obsessed people are with it. Not saying it's not important either, maybe it's just something they don't teach younger swimmers? I still don't know how many strokes per length i take in a race. Too many things going on during a sprint race to be concentrating on that.

[KEWebb18]

If you haven't already done so, I recommend you check out the Rich Abrahams thread:

Rich Abrahams on Swimming World Morning show... - U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums

Rich says he was inspired by Erik Hochstein, who started a sprint-based thread which is languishing a bit but still useful:

Speed Zone - U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums

Good luck!

Chris, thanks for the tips. I have started on my quality focused training, and I am now tracking my distance per practice that I do fast stuff. Now I only need to convince my husband to let me go to LCM zones this summer to test out my training methods...

[KEWebb18]

How many breaths do you take for a LCM 50? Do you endure most of it without air then take a couple breaths the rest of the way, or do you use a consistant but lean, breathing pattern going from the start?

Also, do you count strokes during the race? Have my first ever LCM this weekend, doing 50, 100, and 200 fr events. Cant wait, but I haven't spent too much time in LCM.

I take as few as possible. I am probably around the 3-5, depending on how I am feeling. I can usually do the first 25 comfortably with one breath, but I find that the last 25 I need more air.

I have never counted my strokes during a race. You just don't have time in a 50 to be thinking about stuff like that. I just put my head down and go as fast as I can.

Good luck in the meet.

[fmracing]

i have a 50 lcm free coming up in about a week and a half. It's my intention to do it without breathing. I n actual execution however, I suspect it'll be one breath somewhere around the 3/4 pool mark.

Did this 50 LCM this weekend. I tried really hard to do it no breath... at about the 1/2 pool mark I had to take a breath to keep the turnover going, it seemed to help me to keep the rate going, but i felt the arms start to slow once again at about the 3/4 mark. Took a quick second breath but still couldn't keep the same rate I started with. Not sure if it was lack of O2 or just fatigue for someone that's used to training SCM. Kinda disappointed that I couldn't keep the rate the same throughout the swim but the time was better than I expected (26.9). I think there's more to drop there if I could just keep the rate up and only one breath.

[funkyfish]

How many breaths do you take for a LCM 50? Do you endure most of it without air then take a couple breaths the rest of the way, or do you use a consistant but lean, breathing pattern going from the start?

Also, do you count strokes during the race? Have my first ever LCM this weekend, doing 50, 100, and 200 fr events. Cant wait, but I haven't spent too much time in LCM.

The last 50m lcm free race I did was two days ago. I had been working on limiting my breath count because, after doing some timed 25yd sprints, I've found that breathing slows me down a bit. I gradually built my breath capacity to where I could tolerate a 1 breath 50yd freestyle, moderate effort (includes not breathing on the turn). I tried to see how far I could get from a push in a lcm pool, and found that at every attempt I was taking 2-3 breaths. In my race however I was able to go 3/4 of the length without breathing, and then took one quick breath and finished the race. The first 3/4 seemed fine in that the desire to breathe seemed to sneak up on me. The last 1/4 was a bit painful but not unbearable.

I would not worry about counting strokes during a race, your focus should be on the race, swimming as fast as you can. The stroke counting occurs in practice, where you work on technique and how modifications can help you reduce your spl while maintaining the same speed. This in a general way will help you gauge whether your modifications are having a positive effect. I tend to focus on spl in practice, but know that to swim fast (sprints) then your spl will increase, possibly dramatically.

[ande]

Since we're at the beginning of a new season
I thought I'd bump all the lanes to see which one is winning

[fmracing]

I dunno if there's gonna be much reply in this lane... after the "50's arent real races" thread it would seem there's more people against 'us' than I ever imagined.

[Chris Stevenson]

I dunno if there's gonna be much reply in this lane... after the "50's arent real races" thread it would seem there's more people against 'us' than I ever imagined.

I think there were more people "with" you than against you.

Anyway, this SHOULD be a lively thread. Since sprinters apparently spend so little time training, think of all the time you have to post!

[bzaks1424]

I think there were more people "with" you than against you.

Anyway, this SHOULD be a lively thread. Since sprinters apparently spend so little time training, think of all the time you have to post!

Wait - you mean there's more to it than just jumping in, swimming and getting out of the pool exhausted?

Anyone have any fun exercises for me to build my arm speed in the water? I'm working on my kick stuff anyway - but I think my biggest bottleneck in my stroke right now is my ability to push the water by me faster.

It'll come with time, but I'd rather make it happen faster.

[fmracing]

Wait - you mean there's more to it than just jumping in, swimming and getting out of the pool exhausted?

Anyone have any fun exercises for me to build my arm speed in the water? I'm working on my kick stuff anyway - but I think my biggest bottleneck in my stroke right now is my ability to push the water by me faster.

It'll come with time, but I'd rather make it happen faster.

Closed fist free allows for training a higher turnover but you obviously can't feel the water or work the rest of the stroke that way.

[qbrain]

Closed fist free allows for training a higher turnover but you obviously can't feel the water or work the rest of the stroke that way.

Oh? Does a closed fist prevent EVF or feeling the water with your forearm? I think those are two good things to focus on during fist drill.

[fmracing]

Oh? Does a closed fist prevent EVF or feeling the water with your forearm? I think those are two good things to focus on during fist drill.

Well ok, I should've elaborated what I meant. To me there's two ways to use closed fist. Slowly, to train feel for the water on the forearms, and quickly for turnover. I use it frequently as a meet nears to get used to a high turnover stroke without as much risk of pulling muscles in the upper body. This helps me get a better feel for the adrenaline of a sprint race when my arms are flailing faster than they can in just plain practice sprints.

Using closed fist slowly is certainly a decent tool to train for forearm feel and evf... though I don't really find it to be as good a evf tool as much as some other drillwork.

[qbrain]

Well ok, I should've elaborated what I meant.

That might have been the reason I was poking fun at you

[ande]

Tip of the Week: Freestyle Stroke Analysis with Eddie Reese

[__steve__]

kick 50M faster

[fmracing]

How does one know when their kick is essentially as good as it can get for sprint freestyle events? Is there an upper bound or end goal for working on one's flutter kick?

[ande]

keep doing the [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=133004&postcount=240"]"help my flutter kick is horrible"[/ame] program until
you can flutter kick 50 yards with a board
under 27 if you're male or
under 30 if you're female

everybody can improve their kick and it's well worth your time to improve it

How does one know when their kick is essentially as good as it can get for sprint freestyle events?
Is there an upper bound or end goal for working on one's flutter kick?

[fmracing]

keep doing the "help my flutter kick is horrible" program until
you can flutter kick 50 yards with a board
under 27 if you're male or
under 30 if you're female

everybody can improve their kick and it's well worth your time to improve it

Thanks ... I'll do this next practice and see where i'm at

[Speedo]

keep doing the "help my flutter kick is horrible" program until
you can flutter kick 50 yards with a board
under 27 if you're male or
under 30 if you're female

everybody can improve their kick and it's well worth your time to improve it

Crikey- 8 more seconds...?!? I know you dive and flip w/the board sometimes Ande- what about from a push and one stroke at the turn?

Don't say 27 or I'm drivin' to Austin.