The Backstroke Lane

[__steve__]

Athens and Greenville

[ElaineK]

Athens and Greenville

I will see you at Athens! Backstroke gridge?

[habu987]

All right, here are my 50 and 100 back videos. The 50 was a decent race, besides going too deep on the start and kicking the rather shallow bottom...twice...on the turn. The 100 was horrible--ridiculously terrible and deep on the start and I died at the end, but my time was only .3 off my MPB. On a side note, the pads in this pool weren't attached at the bottom, and curved out from the wall, so every time I pushed off of them in warmup and during the races, I'd have to push them back to the wall before I'd start to move away from the wall, sapping a good deal of energy and momentum from my turns! I was really, really not a fan of this pool!

I'm the tattooed dude with The Beard doing the wall start in both.

50 back


100 back

And for reference, here's a head on shot of my 100 IM. Other problems with the race aside, you can see my arm position on back in the video.

[habu987]

Now how did you drop 6-7s? I'd sure like to do that. By "this season" what do you mean? Drop since your first meet of the season? How out-of-condition were you at the swim you consider the start point for that time drop? How close are you to your rested and tapered time from last season?

I only swam the 200 back twice last season (fall 2011-spring 2012) and did pretty poorly both times. I was only training for fly that season, so my backstroke was a distant second priority.

Starting in June, I've spent my time primarily training for back and spent a good chunk of time over the summer working one-on-one with one of my coaches on my technique. I've dropped a shade over 6 seconds from my best from last season so far. I figure with a bit more technique work and a good deal more conditioning (I'm going to hammer the practices from now through mid April, as I've been very off and on in my training to date), I should be able to drop another ~1.5 seconds per 50. I mean, come on, just shaving The Beard has to be worth at least a couple seconds, right?

I haven't swum the 200 shaved/tapered yet, so I'm really looking forward to Nationals!

[__steve__]

Nice swims habu387

I will see you at Athens! Backstroke gridge?

O o,

what distance, 50, 100?

[SuperChloe]

Today I was just swimming along at practice and my coach goes "Try to get rid of that scissor kick thing you do on backstroke." I was like...huh? I didn't know I did a scissor kick thing! I tried to focus on it but to me it just feels like I'm rotating, not scissoring my feet. Does anyone have any tips for dealing with this?

[ElaineK]

Nice swims habu387O o,

what distance, 50, 100?

Ummmm, before I open my big fat , I better ask this: What is your PB (yards) for the 50 and 100? Mine is :40.45 and 1:32.79. I don't yet know which events I will race; it will depend on the line-up and whether my leg is healthy to race all three breaststroke events. Let's meet back here when the race info. comes out. But, meanwhile, which would you rather gridge? We'll have to make sure to enter the same seed time to at least get in the same heat, and, hopefully, in neighboring lanes.

[__steve__]

My LCM 50bk is 43.10, which places us close in seed, but my recent SCY is 36.something for the 50, I will convert that one to LCM and use that as seed (If I do the 50bk). However, I never completed a 100 back before, and Athens (if I can make it there, 80% sure) seems like a good time to try a new event, so long it does not interfere with target events. I can seed whatever for that one.

[ElaineK]

My LCM 50bk is 43.10, which places us close in seed, but my recent SCY is 36.something for the 50, I will convert that one to LCM and use that as seed (If I do the 50bk). However, I never completed a 100 back before, and Athens (if I can make it there, 80% sure) seems like a good time to try a new event, so long it does not interfere with target events. I can seed whatever for that one.

You're SCY is 36+ and mine is 40+. And, I'm challenging you to a gridge? How's that going to work?

[__steve__]

Might work for a 100. I have a steep drop in pace for anything above a 50

But unfortunatley I already submitted the gridge paperwork and it's final
just kidding

[ElaineK]

Might work for a 100. I have a steep drop in pace for anything above a 50

http://www.usms.org/comp/meets/indre...wage=&highage=

But unfortunatley I already submitted the gridge paperwork and it's final
just kidding

Yikes! You're way faster than me in everything!

Gridge is on: If I beat you, I get bragging rights on this thread. But, if you beat me, you owe me a , unless I break 1:43.09 which would be a PB (My Auburn time of 1:32.79 converted to LC, using the Swimming World Time Conversion Utility.).

[__steve__]

I think it will be close race

You would destroy me in any breaststroke event though

[ElaineK]

You would destroy me in any breaststroke event though

Ya think? Your race times are way faster than mine in everything you have listed. Have you timed yourself in breaststroke? The way I have been swimming breaststroke lately, I'll bet you would beat me. My leg has been too to get a decent kick and my times have been . I'm looking forward to my next PT appointment where I will get a lower body evaluation and exercises to correct those imbalances. Meanwhile, I will keep practicing my backstroke; no pain on that stroke.

[slow]

habu987, I think you were swimming pretty well. You already criticized yourself and know what you need to do. I'm not sure what your splits were but it looked good.

[__steve__]

habu987, I think you were swimming pretty well.

I agree (for what it's worth), those were some sharp swims on youtube

Have you timed yourself in breaststroke?

50m probably in 55 seconds. Cant seem to get my kick working - feet don't catch water. I can make a kick-only work, just can't add it to the stroke. When the pool is clear and I have my camera I plan on consulting with Dr Frog on this issue via youtube to get it resolved. (sorry about hijacking part of your signature font)

My leg has been too

to get a decent kick and my times have been . I'm looking forward to my next PT appointment where I will get a lower body evaluation and exercises to correct those imbalances. Meanwhile, I will keep practicing my backstroke; no pain on that stroke.

Hope you get your frog legs back in tune. Have you tried lifting weights?

[ElaineK]

50m probably in 55 seconds. Cant seem to get my kick working - feet don't catch water. I can make a kick-only work, just can't add it to the stroke. When the pool is clear and I have my camera I plan on consulting with Dr Frog on this issue via youtube to get it resolved. (sorry about hijacking part of your signature font)

Hope you get your frog legs back in tune. Have you tried lifting weights?

Signature font? Steve, you can use this font anytime you would like!

Good idea to get your stroke on video. Dr. Frog (aka King Frog) is the BEST when it comes to evaluating other frogs! But, I digress; this is the "Backstroke Lane" after all... But, before I return to the thread topic, I will answer your questions: Yes, and, that was part of the problem. I was using the abductor/adductor machine (under the advice and supervision of our resident trainer), but it was adding to the muscle fatigue factor, making me more susceptible to injuries in the pool. My abductors are quite strong compared to my adductors, so I am looking forward to receiving more of a skilled evaluation of a PT (and USMS competitor), rather than just the advice of a less-educated trainer who doesn't swim. When I described the problem to the PT while she was reviewing my medical history, she hinted that she thought the origin of the problem was my back. I am guessing she will be prescribing some lower back strengthening exercises to balance out my stronger abs.

[greenjeans11]

Amen!

[Swimosaur]

Pacing 200 back

Check out this race, from the recent Albatross Open:

Event 20, 200 Meter Backstroke

1 Swimosaur M55 GAJA 2:38.93 2:39.95
37.08 1:16.93 (39.85) 1:58.50 (41.57) 2:39.95 (41.45)

2 SwimmieAVSFan F32 TERR 2:32.72 2:35.50
37.47 1:16.95 (39.48) 1:56.61 (39.66) 2:35.50 (38.89)

Splits in lane 2 conform to the ideal formula N, N+2, N+2, N+2, very nearly perfectly! An excellent race!

Splits in lane 1, not so much! More like N, N+2, N+4, N+4.

Now, I'm not complaining! That was a good race & time for me! I have been working on and improving my splitting in the 200 back for the last year (yes, the above represents an improvement). The question is, beyond the obvious advice to get in better condition, how to learn better splitting in this race? I probably need to take my foot off the gas a bit in the first 100. How do you learn this? Are there sets or other training methods for learning to split 200s correctly? Thanks!

[That Guy]

Pacing 200 back

Check out this race, from the recent Albatross Open:

Splits in lane 2 conform to the ideal formula N, N+2, N+2, N+2, very nearly perfectly! An excellent race!

Splits in lane 1, not so much! More like N, N+2, N+4, N+4.

Now, I'm not complaining! That was a good race & time for me! I have been working on and improving my splitting in the 200 back for the last year (yes, the above represents an improvement). The question is, beyond the obvious advice to get in better condition, how to learn better splitting in this race? I probably need to take my foot off the gas a bit in the first 100. How do you learn this? Are there sets or other training methods for learning to split 200s correctly? Thanks!

Good swims! In training, do repeats where you sprint the second half of the swim with low to medium rest. For example, 50's where you sprint the 2nd 25, 100's where you sprint the 2nd 50, and so on. Only having low to medium rest will mean that on the first half of the next repeat, you will still be somewhat tired from the preceding sprint, so your foot will naturally come off the gas. But then you must sprint again! That will teach you to crank it up, over and over again.

[Swimosaur]

Good swims! In training, do repeats where you sprint the second half of the swim with low to medium rest. For example, 50's where you sprint the 2nd 25, 100's where you sprint the 2nd 50, and so on. Only having low to medium rest will mean that on the first half of the next repeat, you will still be somewhat tired from the preceding sprint, so your foot will naturally come off the gas. But then you must sprint again! That will teach you to crank it up, over and over again.

Thanks for the suggestion! But I confess I'm confused. The first time I read it, I thought, when doing a set of 100s as 2x50s, put low rest between the two 50s. Then I read, "Only having low to medium rest will mean that on the first half of the next repeat, you will still be somewhat tired ...", and I thought, maybe the low rest is after the 2nd 50, before starting the next 2x50?

It could be,

(50, low rest, <sprint 50>) ... high rest ... (50, low rest, <sprint 50>) ... high rest ... (50, low rest, <sprint 50>) ...

Or it could be,

(50, high rest, <sprint 50>) ... low rest ... (50, high rest, <sprint 50>) ... low rest ... (50, high rest, <sprint 50>) ...

Or I guess it could be,

(50, low rest, <sprint 50>) ... low rest ... (50, low rest, <sprint 50>) ... low rest ... (50, low rest, <sprint 50>) ...

Also, what do you consider low rest? Thanks!