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Thread: The Backstroke Lane

  1. #321
    sǝssɐןb ɹǝʇʇǝq ʇǝb That Guy's Avatar
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    Re: The Backstroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by Swimosaur View Post
    Thanks for the suggestion! But I confess I'm confused. The first time I read it, I thought, when doing a set of 100s as 2x50s, put low rest between the two 50s. Then I read, "Only having low to medium rest will mean that on the first half of the next repeat, you will still be somewhat tired ...", and I thought, maybe the low rest is after the 2nd 50, before starting the next 2x50?

    It could be,

    (50, low rest, <sprint 50>) ... high rest ... (50, low rest, <sprint 50>) ... high rest ... (50, low rest, <sprint 50>) ...

    Or it could be,

    (50, high rest, <sprint 50>) ... low rest ... (50, high rest, <sprint 50>) ... low rest ... (50, high rest, <sprint 50>) ...

    Or I guess it could be,

    (50, low rest, <sprint 50>) ... low rest ... (50, low rest, <sprint 50>) ... low rest ... (50, low rest, <sprint 50>) ...

    Also, what do you consider low rest? Thanks!
    None of those. I mean repeats of 100's wherein you sprint the 2nd 50 of each 100. Then take low (5-10 seconds) to medium (10-30 seconds) rest before the next 100. Have a mental cue like "ok GO" when it's time to sprint. It'll come in handy in competition.
    "I blame you, James!" - knelson

  2. #322
    Very Active Member Swimosaur's Avatar
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    Re: The Backstroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by That Guy View Post
    None of those.
    Glad I asked! Thanks!

  3. #323
    Very Active Member __steve__'s Avatar
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    Re: The Backstroke Lane

    When I stroke left I sink, and my face goes under surface. With right stroke I surface and inhale. Is this pattern OK or does it need to be fixed?

  4. #324
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    Re: The Backstroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by Swimosaur View Post
    Glad I asked! Thanks!
    Since this is the backstroke lane, I should note that I rarely train backstroke this way. However in butterfly, I practice changing pace all the time.
    "I blame you, James!" - knelson

  5. #325
    Very Active Member Chris Stevenson's Avatar
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    Re: The Backstroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by That Guy View Post
    None of those. I mean repeats of 100's wherein you sprint the 2nd 50 of each 100. Then take low (5-10 seconds) to medium (10-30 seconds) rest before the next 100. Have a mental cue like "ok GO" when it's time to sprint. It'll come in handy in competition.
    In addition to this sort of set I think you need to work on pacing and lactate tolerance. (These are not independent things but they are not identical either.)

    One suggestion is to do pace 200s where you decrease the rest as you progress. For example:

    4 x 200 back on 4:00, rest 12/10/8 sec at the 50s, try to keep the same time on all 4 50s, and not far from your goal race pace.

  6. #326
    Very Active Member Swimosaur's Avatar
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    Re: The Backstroke Lane

    So I tried this (for reference, PBs 100 back 1:05, 200 back 2:21). You can see what happened:

    3 x [100 back cruise, :12 rest, 100 back fast] on 5:00
    1. 1:17, 1:12
    2. 1:17, 1:14
    3. 1:17, 1:17

    After #3, I was cooked. 1:17 is PB+:12 & 1:12 is PB+:07, so I was pretty happy with the first interval. 1:12 would be a reasonable time for the 2nd half of a 200, though I would prefer something closer to 1:10. Intervals 2 & 3 clearly hurt.
    Last edited by Swimosaur; March 27th, 2013 at 09:58 PM. Reason: 'Twas on 5:00, not 4:00

  7. #327
    Very Active Member Swimosaur's Avatar
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    Re: The Backstroke Lane

    And I tried this,

    2 x [50 back on :55, 50 back on :50, 50 back on :45, 50 back fast] on 5:00
    1. 35, 36, 35, 35
    2. 36, 36, 37, 38

    That's roughly 20 sec, 15 sec, and 10 sec rest between intervals. Feels about right to me.

  8. #328
    Very Active Member Chris Stevenson's Avatar
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    Re: The Backstroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by Swimosaur View Post
    And I tried this,

    2 x [50 back on :55, 50 back on :50, 50 back on :45, 50 back fast] on 5:00
    1. 35, 36, 35, 35
    2. 36, 36, 37, 38

    That's roughly 20 sec, 15 sec, and 10 sec rest between intervals. Feels about right to me.
    Based on one of your previous posts -- correct me if I'm wrong -- your goal 200 might be something like 38/40/40/40. In other words, 40 sec per 50 is your 200 pace, right?

    That's a very good set but I think you need to also work on holding your desired 200 pace with less rest. You need to know what those 40s feel like and you need to be able to do them even when tired. At least, that's my $0.02...!

  9. #329
    Very Active Member Swimosaur's Avatar
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    Re: The Backstroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stevenson View Post
    Based on one of your previous posts -- correct me if I'm wrong -- your goal 200 might be something like 38/40/40/40. In other words, 40 sec per 50 is your 200 pace, right?
    For SCM, you are exactly right. For SCY, it might be something like 33/35/35/35. I am training in an SCY pool.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stevenson View Post
    ... I think you need to also work on holding your desired 200 pace with less rest. You need to know what those 40s feel like and you need to be able to do them even when tired ...
    Today's set (a slight variation from yesterday):

    2 x [50 back on :55, 50 back on :50, 50 back on :45, 50 back fast] on 8:00
    1. 35, 37, 35, 34
    2. 35, 36, 35, 34

    This is a good set for learning what those 35s feel like; my challenge is the "do them even when tired" part!

  10. #330
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    Re: The Backstroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by That Guy View Post
    None of those. I mean repeats of 100's wherein you sprint the 2nd 50 of each 100. Then take low (5-10 seconds) to medium (10-30 seconds) rest before the next 100. Have a mental cue like "ok GO" when it's time to sprint. It'll come in handy in competition.
    This is great stuff, That Guy! I have had the same problem splitting my 200 races of any stroke, whereas I negative split anything 400 or longer. Thanks!
    http://ElaineiaKsTravels.wordpress.com

    ~ Believing in your dreams can be far more rewarding than living by your limitations ~Karla Peterson

  11. #331
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    Re: The Backstroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by __steve__ View Post
    My LCM 50bk is 43.10, which places us close in seed, but my recent SCY is 36.something for the 50, I will convert that one to LCM and use that as seed (If I do the 50bk). However, I never completed a 100 back before, and Athens (if I can make it there, 80% sure) seems like a good time to try a new event, so long it does not interfere with target events. I can seed whatever for that one.
    So, are you going to Athens? If so, are you going to swim the 50 back and/or 100 back?? What will your seed times be??? FYI: My best times in SCY are 40.21 and 1:29.85 which converts to 46.22 and 1:42.92, according to the Swimming World Time Conversion Utility. Let's coordinate our seed times, so we can (hopefully) end up next to each other.
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  12. #332
    Very Active Member __steve__'s Avatar
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    Re: The Backstroke Lane

    O o, June is getting close. I will do a practice run to see if I can make that time in a 100 first, it is outside of my endurance range.

  13. #333
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    Re: The Backstroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by __steve__ View Post
    O o, June is getting close. I will do a practice run to see if I can make that time in a 100 first, it is outside of my endurance range.
    Forget the 100 then; let's gridge the 50.
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  14. #334
    Very Active Member __steve__'s Avatar
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    Re: The Backstroke Lane

    OK Elaine, sounds like fun

  15. #335
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    Re: The Backstroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by __steve__ View Post
    OK Elaine, sounds like fun
    What seed time should we enter?
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  16. #336
    Very Active Member ekw's Avatar
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    Re: The Backstroke Lane

    I talked my co-worker into entering a small local LCM meet. Unfortunately, it's during Nationals so I won't be there with her. She is going to swim the 50 backstroke. Our pool doesn't have blocks and she doesn't know how to do a backstroke start anyway. What are the rules for a legal start? I'm assuming she will need to start in a gutter start position, but does she have to bring her arms back together on the start? Can she just let go of the wall and drop down and push off the wall? Basically, what would be the simplest legal way to teach her to start? She's not worried about speed but she will have a serious case of the butterflies.
    "Librarians are hiding something." - Stephen Colbert

  17. #337
    Very Active Member ourswimmer's Avatar
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    Re: The Backstroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by ekw View Post
    Can she just let go of the wall and drop down and push off the wall?
    Yes. Look at Rule 101.1.2.B. She has to be facing the block with both hands on the gutter or block grips and her toes under the water's surface at the second long whistle. If she is not, the starter will remind her (e.g., "both hands on the wall, please, Lane 3"). Then she can just do a normal pushoff. No need to jump or throw the arms over if she doesn't want to.

  18. #338
    Very Active Member __steve__'s Avatar
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    Re: The Backstroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by ElaineK View Post
    What seed time should we enter?
    If there's a LC pool available for a practice run, would the time done there, - 1 second, be a reasonable seed?

    I will swim LC this afternoon and check for myself. I think I might go 46 seconds, but we'll see.

  19. #339
    aka Elaine-iaK & Aqua Dog ElaineK's Avatar
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    Re: The Backstroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by __steve__ View Post
    If there's a LC pool available for a practice run, would the time done there, - 1 second, be a reasonable seed?

    I will swim LC this afternoon and check for myself. I think I might go 46 seconds, but we'll see.

    Sounds reasonable to me. Since my best yards time converts to 46.22 in LC, 46 would be a reasonable seed time for me, as well. If we seed the same, who knows where we'll end up on race day. We could end up on opposite sides of the pool, depending on how other swimmers seed. But, if we end up next to each other with the best times in our heat, that would be cool!
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  20. #340
    Very Active Member arthur's Avatar
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    Re: The Backstroke Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by ourswimmer View Post
    Yes. Look at Rule 101.1.2.B. She has to be facing the block with both hands on the gutter or block grips and her toes under the water's surface at the second long whistle. If she is not, the starter will remind her (e.g., "both hands on the wall, please, Lane 3"). Then she can just do a normal pushoff. No need to jump or throw the arms over if she doesn't want to.
    The toes can be out of the water, but they can't be above the lip of the gutter. If there is a touchpad that comes out of the water the feet can be as high as they want on the touchpad as long as the toes are below the top edge.

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