The Butterfly Lane

[ElaineK]

[QUOTE=Yosemite;279963]

Thanks for your YouTube comment on my 1,000 fly video! And, thanks for your suggestion here.

Sprint fly is definitely out for me!

C,mon Elaine. You are twice the butterflier than I am. You can do ten sprints of butterfly and do it mucho prettier than me. You obviously have the fitness to do them without injury.. Give it a go! I am impressed that you do sprint days on all four strokes. That's awesome.

Awww, geee, thanks, Yosemite! I have competed in 50 fly; my best time is a :39+. It's a slow time and I only enjoy swimming it as part of a sprint pentathlon or when it's a filler event, in between my core events. Sprint fly frustrates me, because the faster I swim fly, the more my arms whip out the back end too high and crash down in front. My flaws all come back to haunt me!

[determinedtri]

Yes.You can have as many dolphin kicks per pull as you like.The only restriction on the number of kicks is only on breaststroke kick per pull (and that is only legal for masters.)You could just do dolphin kicks and be legal as long as you surface after 15M(I'm not sure if you would have to do at least one pull per length).

Unless you had an exception for disability reasons, you'd have to do legal turns and finishes.

Paralympian Oksana Khrul swims fly no pull, with her arms in streamline (so she does a legal simultaneous touch). I've just checked her IPC rule exceptions. As I suspected, no relevant ones - so her technique must be FINA legal without them. Watch her WR/gold medal swim in London:

[ElaineK]

Happy New Year, flyers! Here is a recap of the 1,000 yard double Butternuts challenge (after all, it only takes swimming 500 yards of fly to qualify as a Butternut: http://www.grinswim.org/~nasti/butternuts.html ):

That Guy- post #506- 13:56
pmmcoy- post #528- 15:23
rxleam- post #539- 16:59* (including :57 break in between 500's)
Swimosaur- post #526- 17:52* (1000 split of a 1650! )
jgale- post #550- 18:29
Yosemite- post #523- no time reported
Me- post #522- 23:07

Congratulations, Double Butternuts! Here's to each of you for taking up the challenge:

[determinedtri]

Happy New Year, flyers! Here is a recap of the 1,000 yard double Butternuts challenge (after all, it only takes swimming 500 yards of fly to qualify as a Butternut: http://www.grinswim.org/~nasti/butternuts.html )

I passed on the 1000 due to back pain (and lack of access to a SCY pool). Will do a butternut-qualifying swim sometime this year

[jaadams1]

Happy New Year, flyers! Here is a recap of the 1,000 yard double Butternuts challenge (after all, it only takes swimming 500 yards of fly to qualify as a Butternut: http://www.grinswim.org/~nasti/butternuts.html ):

That Guy- post #506- 13:56
pmmcoy- post #528- 15:23
rxleam- post #539- 16:59* (including :57 break in between 500's)
Swimosaur- post #526- 17:52* (1000 split of a 1650! )
jgale- post #550- 18:29
Yosemite- post #523- no time reported
Me- post #522- 23:07

Congratulations, Double Butternuts! Here's to each of you for taking up the challenge:

While I'm capable of completing this, I honestly have no desire to do another 1000 Fly, especially in a practice setting. In a meet performance a year and a half ago, I did a 1000 Fly around a 12:30 or so, though I recall doing 1 hand touches throughout. I'm sure I could improve on that time, though why?

[SuperChloe]

This is small potatoes to most of you, but I have always avoided fly and IM (too many back and shoulder problems in high school). I decided this year that I need to conquer fly. I've always been a freestyler/backstroker and I haven't swum fly or IM in a meet since I was probably 8 or 9. Today I swam a 100 IM in a meet and I'm really proud of myself for doing that. I even think I could have done a whole 50 fly. Anyway, I enjoy reading this thread and my goal for the next two years is a 200 fly. We'll see.

[That Guy]

This is small potatoes to most of you, but I have always avoided fly and IM (too many back and shoulder problems in high school). I decided this year that I need to conquer fly. I've always been a freestyler/backstroker and I haven't swum fly or IM in a meet since I was probably 8 or 9. Today I swam a 100 IM in a meet and I'm really proud of myself for doing that. I even think I could have done a whole 50 fly. Anyway, I enjoy reading this thread and my goal for the next two years is a 200 fly. We'll see.

Good job SuperChloe! Keep us updated as you pursue your goal!

[ElaineK]

This is small potatoes to most of you, but I have always avoided fly and IM (too many back and shoulder problems in high school). I decided this year that I need to conquer fly. I've always been a freestyler/backstroker and I haven't swum fly or IM in a meet since I was probably 8 or 9. Today I swam a 100 IM in a meet and I'm really proud of myself for doing that. I even think I could have done a whole 50 fly. Anyway, I enjoy reading this thread and my goal for the next two years is a 200 fly. We'll see.

Congratulations; you should be proud of yourself. You stepped (swam!) outside of your comfort zone and challenged yourself. As the Aussies say, "Good on ya!"

Good luck with your goal of swimming a 200 fly!

[Sisswim]

Hi. I'm new to this thread..and new to Master's Swimmer. I was a swimmer as a child up throughout high school. I swam IMs and Fly and Free. Now 25 years later, I'm starting almost from scratch. The only evidence I have that I WAS a swimmer is a "good looking" Fly. Problem is..after 3 months of swimming, I'm only swimming a 25 Fly a few times a week. (It hasn't been a huge focus until NOW). Now I want to be able to swim easily 50 Meters..and eventually more. Where do I start??? I'm honestly not sure why I can't finish a 50 meter lap. I just fall apart..I don't know if it's overall conditioning, fatigue in my upper body or what. Can anyone (or everyone!!) give me an idea on how to progressively work on my distance (without feeling defeated) so I can get up to a 200 Fly by December?? (Yes, a check off challenge member!) I'll do drills, use fins , pull buoys, anything!!! Please any or all advise is requested!!!! Oh..maybe intense cardio outside the pool??? Just feeling like I don't know where to start.

[ElaineK]

Hi. I'm new to this thread..and new to Master's Swimmer. I was a swimmer as a child up throughout high school. I swam IMs and Fly and Free. Now 25 years later, I'm starting almost from scratch. The only evidence I have that I WAS a swimmer is a "good looking" Fly. Problem is..after 3 months of swimming, I'm only swimming a 25 Fly a few times a week. (It hasn't been a huge focus until NOW). Now I want to be able to swim easily 50 Meters..and eventually more. Where do I start??? I'm honestly not sure why I can't finish a 50 meter lap. I just fall apart..I don't know if it's overall conditioning, fatigue in my upper body or what. Can anyone (or everyone!!) give me an idea on how to progressively work on my distance (without feeling defeated) so I can get up to a 200 Fly by December?? (Yes, a check off challenge member!) I'll do drills, use fins , pull buoys, anything!!! Please any or all advise is requested!!!! Oh..maybe intense cardio outside the pool??? Just feeling like I don't know where to start.

When I got back into swimming and joined USMS three years ago, I could barely swim 25 yards of fly and was ecstatic when I worked up to being able to compete in a 50. It was a combination of technique and conditioning that got me there. Between coaching, feedback on my videos on this thread, and building up my fly yardage in training, I was ultimately ready to attempt a 200 fly in practice to see if I could do it in a meet. I guess I was ready long before that attempt, because I kept going after 200 and stopped at 900. And, that 900 was continuous. Two weeks later, I swam 2,000 yards of continuous fly. That was last June, at the age of 50. Believe me, if I can do it (almost) ANYBODY can do it. If you knew my medical history, you would understand why I am so sure when I say that...

So, this is what you do:
1. Get somebody to video your butterfly, upload it to YouTube, and then post the link on this thread. You will get great feedback on your stroke; probably from That Guy, an AWESOME flyer.
2. Work on correcting whatever needs to be corrected when you train.
3. Build up your fly yardage slowly.
4. I found that in order to swim any more than 50 yards of fly, I MUST breathe every stroke to get enough air. If your lungs feel like they can't handle breathing every other stroke, breathe every stroke.
5. Listen to any advice That Guy gives you on this thread; he knows his stuff. And, so does James Adams.
6. Good luck! And, keep us posted!

[Sisswim]

Elaine! Thank you so much for your encouragement, inspiration and tips!!!! It was just what I needed!!! Really. I'll get a video soon. I'm so in awe that you did 2,000 yards continuously!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is practically inconceivable to me!!!! Here I thought doing 200 meters straight might be pushing it. Thanks again for taking the time to reply!!!
Susan

[SuperChloe]

We did some fly work in practice this morning (I usually pick backstroke whenever we do stroke, so this time my coach forced it on me!). We started with kicking and added stuff in from there. I think I finally figured out how to get two kicks into my stroke cycle (yeah, I know...I should have figured this out long ago! ). Anyway, when it came time to add fly into the main set, my arms were so tired that I could barely do 25 before having to drill or drown. Ugh. I had been feeling so good in the drills. I guess it's just conditioning? I only swim 3 days a week because that is when the pool is available to me, so I'm not sure how much conditioning I'll be able to build up in that time. Thoughts?

[ekw]

We did some fly work in practice this morning (I usually pick backstroke whenever we do stroke, so this time my coach forced it on me!). We started with kicking and added stuff in from there. I think I finally figured out how to get two kicks into my stroke cycle (yeah, I know...I should have figured this out long ago! ). Anyway, when it came time to add fly into the main set, my arms were so tired that I could barely do 25 before having to drill or drown. Ugh. I had been feeling so good in the drills. I guess it's just conditioning? I only swim 3 days a week because that is when the pool is available to me, so I'm not sure how much conditioning I'll be able to build up in that time. Thoughts?

I have trouble with that too - I really have to think about it!

[ElaineK]

Elaine! Thank you so much for your encouragement, inspiration and tips!!!! It was just what I needed!!! Really. I'll get a video soon. I'm so in awe that you did 2,000 yards continuously!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is practically inconceivable to me!!!! Here I thought doing 200 meters straight might be pushing it. Thanks again for taking the time to reply!!!
Susan

You are welcome, Susan! Seriously, don't think for a minute that what I did is something you couldn't do. It was inconceivable to me, too, that I could even swim 200 yards of legal fly. But, with patience, determination, and persistant training, I worked my way up to it. And, like I said; if I can do it, you can do it.

The technique I use for a 50 fly race is quite different than for 200 fly or longer, though, so we'll have to get into that later when you are at that point where you can attempt it. If you go back and read posts from the past year or so on this thread, though, you will catch all the good stuff.

I forgot to mention Swimosaur who has also posted great advice on this thread, as well as videos. He is a good resource, as well, and has beautiful endurance fly technique.

[ElaineK]

We did some fly work in practice this morning (I usually pick backstroke whenever we do stroke, so this time my coach forced it on me!). We started with kicking and added stuff in from there. I think I finally figured out how to get two kicks into my stroke cycle (yeah, I know...I should have figured this out long ago! ). Anyway, when it came time to add fly into the main set, my arms were so tired that I could barely do 25 before having to drill or drown. Ugh. I had been feeling so good in the drills. I guess it's just conditioning? I only swim 3 days a week because that is when the pool is available to me, so I'm not sure how much conditioning I'll be able to build up in that time. Thoughts?

I don't think 3 days a week will do it. I can really feel it when I take two days off in a row; something I try to avoid whenever possible.

There is one thing I always do when training fly, though: Breathe every stroke. Like Michael Phelps, I NEED AIR! If I breathe every other stroke, I'm toast after 50 yards; I just can't do it with my 51 year old lungs.

Another thing I do when my arms get really tired and heavy is only pull to my waist, rather than all the way through. I then push them out to the side at my waist to get them out of the water for the recovery.

Whether this advice is correct or not, it works for me.

[Sisswim]

Success today. I did 50 meters Fly this morning.. twice! Never could I do that before. I literally heard everything I've been reading om here in my head!!! And..I didn't die. Hmm. Maybe I will get to that 200 before December. Feeling very hopeful. I did feel comfortable knowing I COULD breathe every stroke instead of every other but for the life of me, I could figure out how to get into that rhythm! So...every other it was...

[SuperChloe]

I don't think 3 days a week will do it. I can really feel it when I take two days off in a row; something I try to avoid whenever possible.

There is one thing I always do when training fly, though: Breathe every stroke. Like Michael Phelps, I NEED AIR! If I breathe every other stroke, I'm toast after 50 yards; I just can't do it with my 51 year old lungs.

Another thing I do when my arms get really tired and heavy is only pull to my waist, rather than all the way through. I then push them out to the side at my waist to get them out of the water for the recovery.

Whether this advice is correct or not, it works for me.

That was what I was afraid of. I guess I can try to get up at 4 for a 6 AM practice an hour away on Saturdays, but we'll see. I'm a full time student and I work, so Saturday mornings are kind of sacred.

I also have discovered the awfulness of short-axis strokes on a full stomach. Blech! It just mixes everything up in there.

I did some fly and IM this morning and I completed a legal 200 IM for the first time in probably 10 years. 2:53 from a push. I think the 100 fly is in sight.

[arthur]

That was what I was afraid of. I guess I can try to get up at 4 for a 6 AM practice an hour away on Saturdays, but we'll see. I'm a full time student and I work, so Saturday mornings are kind of sacred.

I also have discovered the awfulness of short-axis strokes on a full stomach. Blech! It just mixes everything up in there.

I did some fly and IM this morning and I completed a legal 200 IM for the first time in probably 10 years. 2:53 from a push. I think the 100 fly is in sight.

While more practices are better, you can definitely still improve your fly a lot only doing 3 practices a week. It sounds like you don't practice fly every often, so just adding some fly each practice could make a big improvement. I swam a 200m fly in a meet last year after only training 3x a week.

[ElaineK]

Success today. I did 50 meters Fly this morning.. twice! Never could I do that before. I literally heard everything I've been reading om here in my head!!! And..I didn't die. Hmm. Maybe I will get to that 200 before December. Feeling very hopeful. I did feel comfortable knowing I COULD breathe every stroke instead of every other but for the life of me, I could figure out how to get into that rhythm! So...every other it was...

Way to go, Sis! So, next time, it will be three times, right? Just keep trying, even if you can't quite make the third one and have to change strokes mid-length.

As for the breathing rhythm, the same thing happened to me. It actually seemed harder at first. But, once I got the hang of breathing every stroke, it became the easier way for me. Here is the key: When you breathe, do NOT lift your head and look forward. Lead with the top of your head and lift just enough to get air, keeping your chin in the water. Continue to look at the bottom of the pool when you take a breath. I try to never stop looking at that black stripe... By doing this, your neck will stay more relaxed and you will keep better form. Good luck!

[ElaineK]

That was what I was afraid of. I guess I can try to get up at 4 for a 6 AM practice an hour away on Saturdays, but we'll see. I'm a full time student and I work, so Saturday mornings are kind of sacred.

I also have discovered the awfulness of short-axis strokes on a full stomach. Blech! It just mixes everything up in there.

I did some fly and IM this morning and I completed a legal 200 IM for the first time in probably 10 years. 2:53 from a push. I think the 100 fly is in sight.

Awesome on that 200 IM; especially since that was your first one in ten years!

As for swimming anything on a full stomach, it's for me!