The IM Lane

[DPC]

I AM REVIVING THIS THREAD

Why? Because today I taught myself the backstroke to breaststroke flip turn. I've never been able to do it with any consistency before, but now I've got it. Here's what I did. The pool was nearly empty so I moved to the center of the pool and did 10 x 25 back-to-breast, starting and finishing in the middle. The first two sucked because I was trying to do something like this YouTube- ‪Eric Shanteau Back - Breast Transition Turn‬‎ or this YouTube- ‪Adam Mania's Back to Breast turn‬‎ and I just can't seem to get that right. So then for #3 I decided to try this instead (I've seen this technique but I had never tried it before): YouTube- ‪Tay Back To Brerast‬‎ I cheated a little bit and looked at my hand before it touched the wall, but I completely nailed the turn. There's no rotating or twisting, just touch the wall and flip straight over. Then I nailed the turn 7 more times, at different speeds and off either hand. For the rest of the workout I started working these turns into my warmdown swims (e.g. alternating backstroke and freestyle each 25, doing this flip turn on each back-to-free transition) and eventually got to where I didn't need to look at the wall prior to flipping. That is important since by putting my head underwater prior to touching the wall, I'd be risking a DQ for submerging past 15 meters. If an idiot like me can learn this, then anyone can! WOO HOO!!! THERE'S A HALF SECOND I'M NOT GIVING UP ANYMORE!!!

Congrats and great vids - I've been trying to do the same thing on the BK/BR transition, but all the shots I've seen are like Shanteau's and I can never get the sequence right. Its like trying to do something while looking in a mirror, I always end up twisting the wrong way and head off into the lines. The sort of modified flip has been easier to do but I end up going too deep on the pull out and run out of air or it takes a long time to do so I lose time (it seems that way). Looks like perserverance wins again.

[That Guy]

Congrats and great vids - I've been trying to do the same thing on the BK/BR transition, but all the shots I've seen are like Shanteau's and I can never get the sequence right. Its like trying to do something while looking in a mirror, I always end up twisting the wrong way and head off into the lines. The sort of modified flip has been easier to do but I end up going too deep on the pull out and run out of air or it takes a long time to do so I lose time (it seems that way). Looks like perserverance wins again.

Thanks! I did notice that on some of my pushoffs, I was deeper than I expected to be. I do generally push off with a downward trajectory... but I can imagine in the 400 IM scenario that I could end up running out of air.

[ElaineK]

I do the bucket turn alot because I need the air.

I'm a breaststroker who is training in IM for my first pentathlon. I hire a coach (very part-time) to help me with my strokes, starts and turns. During our last session, he coached me on IM transitions; particularly the back-to-breast transition. He is teaching me open turns for everything, because I have Meniere's and get too dizzy if I do any more than a few flip turns in a short period of time. (I figured that out when I made myself "seasick" practicing flip turns. I didn't have Meniere's when I used to compete in high school swimming...)

Learning open turns and IM transitions isn't too difficult, if you already have a solid breaststroke turn. I've been working hard on it, so it has really helped my other open turns.

[couldbebetterfly]

I AM REVIVING THIS THREAD

Why? Because today I taught myself the backstroke to breaststroke flip turn. I've never been able to do it with any consistency before, but now I've got it. Here's what I did. The pool was nearly empty so I moved to the center of the pool and did 10 x 25 back-to-breast, starting and finishing in the middle. The first two sucked because I was trying to do something like this YouTube- ‪Eric Shanteau Back - Breast Transition Turn‬‎ or this YouTube- ‪Adam Mania's Back to Breast turn‬‎ and I just can't seem to get that right. So then for #3 I decided to try this instead (I've seen this technique but I had never tried it before): YouTube- ‪Tay Back To Brerast‬‎ I cheated a little bit and looked at my hand before it touched the wall, but I completely nailed the turn. There's no rotating or twisting, just touch the wall and flip straight over. Then I nailed the turn 7 more times, at different speeds and off either hand. For the rest of the workout I started working these turns into my warmdown swims (e.g. alternating backstroke and freestyle each 25, doing this flip turn on each back-to-free transition) and eventually got to where I didn't need to look at the wall prior to flipping. That is important since by putting my head underwater prior to touching the wall, I'd be risking a DQ for submerging past 15 meters. If an idiot like me can learn this, then anyone can! WOO HOO!!! THERE'S A HALF SECOND I'M NOT GIVING UP ANYMORE!!!

Thankyou - I was looking for the IM lane last week and couldn't find it

I can do a flip - a bit like the 3rd vid - but only in practice. I did one in competition many years ago and twisted my shoulder somehow, still it all straightened out after a couple of strokes breast, but have never managed it at speed since. I tend to get too close to the wall on the backstroke finish, so have no room to flip backwards. Probably not helped by practising in 25m pool and competing in 25yd pool this summer.

I also tend to push off deep, probably because after a back flip my toes hit the wall angle downwards.

My nemesis is the backstroke turn - not an issue for the 100IM, or 200LCM, but I always turn over too late. So.....anyone got tips for a rubbish backstroker on how to get more confident on those turns? I have a (very) long term goal of swimming a 400IM in competition.

[That Guy]

Take two strokes inside the flags, and then turn over.

[Jimbosback]

Thankyou - I was looking for the IM lane last week and couldn't find it


I also tend to push off deep, probably because after a back flip my toes hit the wall angle downwards.

I overcome this by touching low on the wall (reach down) which levels me off better.

[couldbebetterfly]

Take two strokes inside the flags, and then turn over.

Will bear that in mind, although I then end up so far away that I'm needing to do a couple of freestyle strokes to get me there

Its just practice makes perfect really isn't it? I hate practising backstroke

[That Guy]

Its just practice makes perfect really isn't it?

Yep, that is why I'm going to make sure I do plenty of back-to-breast flip turns in every practice. Eventually it will be automatic without thinking about it, but that's not the case yet.

[knelson]

eventually got to where I didn't need to look at the wall prior to flipping. That is important since by putting my head underwater prior to touching the wall, I'd be risking a DQ for submerging past 15 meters.

Yes, and in my opinion the girl in the video should be DQed if she turns like that in a race. It sure looks to me like she's completely submierged before her hand hits the wall.

[That Guy]

Yes, and in my opinion the girl in the video should be DQed if she turns like that in a race. It sure looks to me like she's completely submierged before her hand hits the wall.

Yeah, I like this video (which I didn't find until after my first post on this topic) much better, since it's much cleaner technique: [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiPcnTMIi4s&NR=1"]YouTube- ‪turn backstroke-breaststroke / virata dorso-rana‬‎[/nomedia] I don't know what I look like from the pool deck, but that video shows exactly what I'm trying to do.

[rtodd]

A classic.

http://www.floswimming.org/videos/sw...ll-star-100-im

[pwolf66]

That is important since by putting my head underwater prior to touching the wall, I'd be risking a DQ for submerging past 15 meters.

Actually, you wouldn't risk it as the rule is that prior to reaching the 15m mark some part of the swimmer's head must break the surface of the water, after that point, some part of the swimmer (note: doesn't say head) must break the surface of the water at all times with the exception of at the finish where the swimmer may be submerged. Now it's the 'at the finish' part that's the rub. As an official that is ruled to be the time in which you shift your focus to judging the swimmers touch and in doing so can no longer be in a good position to view the entire body of the swimmer.

And in IM, then transition from one stroke to another is judged using the finishing rule of the ending stroke and the starting rule (sans dive of course) of beginning stroke.

I guess that was a long winded way of saying 'no, having your head underwater at the transition from back to breast should not be cause for disqualification'

[pwolf66]

Yes, and in my opinion the girl in the video should be DQed if she turns like that in a race. It sure looks to me like she's completely submierged before her hand hits the wall.

It all depends on if this part of the finish. If it is, then it's legal. See my answer to TG for more info.

[knelson]

I stand corrected. You are right Paul.

[That Guy]

Actually, you wouldn't risk it as the rule is that prior to reaching the 15m mark some part of the swimmer's head must break the surface of the water, after that point, some part of the swimmer (note: doesn't say head) must break the surface of the water at all times with the exception of at the finish where the swimmer may be submerged. Now it's the 'at the finish' part that's the rub. As an official that is ruled to be the time in which you shift your focus to judging the swimmers touch and in doing so can no longer be in a good position to view the entire body of the swimmer.

And in IM, then transition from one stroke to another is judged using the finishing rule of the ending stroke and the starting rule (sans dive of course) of beginning stroke.

I guess that was a long winded way of saying 'no, having your head underwater at the transition from back to breast should not be cause for disqualification'

I watched most of the US Nationals last week and I saw some DQ's in the backstroke events where the announcer said the swimmer "submerged prior to the finish." However, I didn't notice any DQ's like that in the IM events. Either way, mastering the turn enough that I don't have to look at the wall is still a good thing.

Today I incorporated the turn into an IM set - 5x100 IM on 1:30. Not a super-hard set but hard enough that I was performing the turn while winded. It turns out that the point in my stroke cycle where I reach for the wall is also the point where I exhale! (I breathe every stroke in backstroke. It's pretty much subconscious though, so this was a surprise.) I was awkwardly gasping for air just before flipping. So I need to work on that. Some sort of mental cue to breathe differently inside the flags, maybe.

[ande]

Since we're at the beginning of a new season
I thought I'd bump all the lanes to see which one is winning

[bzaks1424]

I will be swimming my first IM ever this year. Doing the 100 IM during the Sink Or Swim Classic on October 24th.
[ame="http://forums.usms.org/showthread.php?t=17372"]Libertyville Sink or Swim Classic meet, 24 Oct 2010 - U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums[/ame]

My goal is to be able to survive and do the 400 IM at Nationals in April. I'm not concerned about times with this one. I just want to learn it right then speed up from there.

[Ahelee Sue Osborn]

Just when you thought the 400 IMers were the craziest swimmers next to the 200 Flyers...

Northern California is proud of their IM Swimmers.
But especially proud of building their Medley Relays.


[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJPW14VMg-c"]YouTube- The Golden Gate Individual Medley[/nomedia]

[pwb]

Just when you thought the 400 IMers were the craziest swimmers next to the 200 Flyers...

Northern California is proud of their IM Swimmers.
But especially proud of building their Medley Relays.


YouTube- The Golden Gate Individual Medley

Completely whacked out! Crazy. I'm impressed, but this is one of those things I'm sure I'll never aspire to do.

[tjrpatt]

Just when you thought the 400 IMers were the craziest swimmers next to the 200 Flyers...

Northern California is proud of their IM Swimmers.
But especially proud of building their Medley Relays.


YouTube- The Golden Gate Individual Medley

looks like fun. Of course, the water must be insanely cold. But, once you get the fly done, the rest is a piece of cake considering you can complete the fly. At least, with the kayak, you can be somewhat coordinated on the backstroke. Otherwise, you might somehow swim to the Pacific!