75 fly - 10s rest
50 fly-back - 10s rest
50 back - 10s rest
50 back-breast - 10s rest
50 breast - 10s rest
50 breast-free - 10s rest
broken 400 IM,
200 free mod,
full 400 IM,
200 free mod,
broken 400 IM.
These were not hard efforts, more like cruise+.
The add-up times on the broken 400 IMs were within 2s of each other.
The full 400 IM was 10s slower than the first (faster) of the 2 broken swims.
I'd hope for a bit more than 10s between my best practice swim and a meet performance, but I'll just have to wait for a meet to see how it works out.
How does your add-up time compared to a best-effort full 400 IM relate to your meet performance?
Interestingly, the add-up time on the broken 400s was very close to the add-up time for this set, which I have done numerous times:
8x(50/:50) done as
25 fly + 25 bk,
25 bk + 25 br,
25 br + 25 fr,
50 fr mod.
Of course this latter set cheats me out of 25 fly.
I love the 400IM. It was my favorite event to race but not my best, due to 100 yards of breastroke. I am a pigeon footed, long lanky person built for long axis strokes. I cant do a proper breastroke kick worth crap. I don't know if I'm doing anything in proper in breastroke lol.
I have never raced 100-200 breast and never plan to. I just want to find a way I can keep decent momentum without too much effort in the breast section of the 400IM (where I used to get destroyed, it was pathetic, I usually used it as a resting point so I could bring home a strong free).
My splits would look something like this by hundred:
This was 5+ years ago, I have just started training again a month ago, and all my strokes still feel good/decent except breastroke. I am doing breast differently that I used to, but it is still very very slow. On a positive note, I feel I might could start over or re-do/re-learn my whole breast technique. I need to work on my leg/ankle flexibility for breast for sure. As I can't generate hardly any propulsion with a kick. My legs/ankles just won't grab the water!
I need to find some stretches and things I could do to help my legs work more like those breastroke weirdos who walk around with their feet turned out. Any ideas?
SCM season is almost over.
I don't know if these will hold up, but current event rankings show:
USMS Times Reported for Men SCM 400 IM Ages 40-44
2011 Season (2011-01-01 through 2011-12-31)
1 Brundage, Patrick W 44 4:48.34 ARIZ 2011 AZ Masters SCM State Champions
USMS Times Reported for Men SCM 400 IM Ages 45-49
2011 Season (2011-01-01 through 2011-12-31)
1 Rasmussen, Anders M 48 4:52.31 TXLA South Central Regional Invitational
Next year should be fun to watch!
I was trying to invent a set/drill to help prepare for the breaststroke pullouts in the IM, especially the 400 IM. This is what I came up with:
SCY or SCM:
150 kick -no rest, straight into...
20 fly sprinty -switch to breaststroke at the flags...
30 breaststroke DPS -i.e. take the fewest strokes possible on the last 25.)
I did the kick part RIMO by round.
Going for the fewest breaststroke strokes possible on that last 25 forces you to NOT shorten the pullout. (My best effort was 5 SPL)
I really liked this set so I decided to share it here. I'm not saying I liked the suffering on the breaststroke pullouts, but it seems to give pretty good race-simulation breaststroke pullouts with the added benefit of providing some kick endurace work. Have fun!
"I blame you, James!" - knelson
better breastroke pullouts in IMs
so do 150 or 300 IMs just swim FL BK BR, swim them various ways
fast with rest, easy speed, race simulation, neg split by 25 or 50, & desc sets
but always with an emphasis on breastroke and breastroke pull outs
when I race IMs, on fly & back I:
1) swim easy speed,
2) save my legs, doing smaller kicks with less force, I do one beat kick fly
3) not many SDKs &
4) breathe a lot, especially as I approach the BK to BR turn
The goal is to feel pretty comfortable at the 100 in the 200 or the 200 in the 400
so I can have a fast BK to Br turn, long pull outs then
work the BR, but not by spinning, but by having a fast insweep & thrust on the pull and a fast kick with more streamline glide after each kick
If you go out too hard in IMs you run out of breath and your legs die, killing your kick.
Hey IMers! Will you check out my 400 IM video? It was only my second time racing the event; I only started training for it a couple of months ago. My fly is slowww ; I know I need to work on my speed and keep amplitude smaller on the kick, so my feet don't come out of the water. My backstroke is slow, too; I'm mostly trying to figure out what speed to swim fly and backstroke, so I don't die early in the 400 IM. As a newbie at it, I know it will come with experience.
What I would really appreciate is some stroke feedback. I know my turns were pathetically slow; that, too, will improve as I get better able to imploy my sprint-style turns, as I adapt to the demands of this event. (Flip turns are not possible, due to an inner ear disorder that causes me to get disoriented and seasick when I flip.)
Thanks in advance for your help!
hey elaine! i saw your other thread about your turns but couldn't watch those videos anymore so here's my thoughts on my 400 im video
unless you're intentionally holding on for a sec to catch your breath, there's no reason to reach up to the gutter on your fly turns. all you have to do is touch the walll in front of you, then "richocet" off the wall (the 3rd fly turn and your breast turns are more of what you should be doing on your other fly turns)
are you able to stay longer underwater (streamline/flutter or few dolphin kicks) before your breakout in the backstroke?
have you ever learned the old fashioned backstroke whip turn, as opposed to just an open turn? would it also make you dizzy? can you do it faster than an open turn?
have you determined with your breaststroke experience, when you need oxygen and will forgo the underwater pullout? obviously, training to be able to do the pullouts at each turn would be helpful
having never raced with freestyle open turns, i guess you're doing it as well as possible! the quicker/snappier you can get thru the turns, the better!
with most of your turns, you don't need to reach as far as placing your palm on the wall (nor sink/pull into the walls with bent elbows, which i don't see you doing). all you have to do is touch with your fingertips, hopefullly with perfect degree of outstretch of your arms, and then bring your body around as quickly as possible (think the hand-over-ear body twist, like in breastroke turns) and legs placed in position for maximum pushoff power
fly is my weak link as well. i've only ever swum the 400 im once (checked that off the list but for 200 im's, i try to just maintain easy speed and form during the fly; don't forget that race adrenaline usually adds a boost to your fly leg as well. since you're a breastroker, you don't want to tire yourself out too much on the back. try to build/maintain speed on the back, catching your breath after the fly and making sure you've got enough air in the lungs, going into the back-breast turn. breastroke is your forte, so Bring It on this leg, but maintain form and don't spin (unfortuantely, it's not the 100 im . freestyle, i would try to build to the point that you've figured out that you can do an all-you-have-left sprint. as a breastroker, i think you can really feel the building momemtum and finishing strong!, from the breaststroke through freestyle legs
you'll have to play with the pacing, for each stroke leg, and for the race as a whole, to see what works best for you. remember there are FIFTEEN turns in a short course 400 im, so it's worth working on them!
Hey there, chowsh! Thanks for taking the time to watch my video and post feedback on my strokes. I appreciate getting feedback from different swimmers, because everybody sees different things and provides a unique perspective. So, I take it all in and paste it into my ongoing Word Doc on stroke advice that I read regularly as a reminder on what to work on.
Anyway, about those fly turns... Ya think? Yeah, I'll admit it; I used it as a great excuse for an extra breath! I am usually more disciplined than that and don't even do it at my home pool that is designed the same way. BUSTED.
On backstroke, I am trying to get used to swimming it without a nose clip. When I use a clip, I am able to stay under longer, but I just can't get used to using a clip for the other strokes. So, I am not using it on IM. Since that meet, I have been swimming more and more backstroke without a clip and I am trying to get better at getting a good breath before the turn, so I can get some good kicking in off the wall.
As for the bacstroke turn, the only one I have learned is a bucket/open turn. I am open to trying it another way; I just need to learn how to do it. And, while I am learning, I'll find out soon enough whether my inner ears will let me do it.
On breaststroke, I did a pullout on each of my turns. I always do; I have never skipped a pullout- ever. Now, I will admit I have surfaced from a pullout gasping for air on that first breath, at times, during a 200 breaststroke race, but I always do a pullout.
I'll keep working on those turns; thanks for your advice!
No seriously, great advice. The way I used to do the 400im, short version, is first to get conditioning up for the 16 lengths, but in race focus on every turn and go smooth in the middle bits. You're actually going faster on the middle bits from adreniline, but the by really working the turns & breakouts, that is where the money is! If you "save" even just 1/4 of a second on every turn plus the dive, then that's 4 secs right there for not really working any harder (assuming you have conditioned up to it)! If you can eek out another .25 on half more, then that's another 2 seconds! Try and map out your event and where you think you bog down the most.
Thanks for the advice, chow! First 'sh and now 'mi; ! So, it's definitely the turns, since there are so many of them in 400 IM. I have worked hard on my breaststroke turns, since 50 & 100 breaststroke are my best events, but I have a lot of work to do on the others; especially my backstroke turn.
Aside from practice "racing", I have only raced the 400 IM twice; once LCM and once SCY. Both times, I negative split, but I have a lot of work to do to improve my race overall. At least I am closer to an "A" on the Motivational Times Chart than a "BB"! As a newbie brute squad event swimmer, I'll take it, considering I am still not even on the chart for 100 or 200 fly!
elaine, you are awesome for adding challenging events to your race program! you've done a long course 400 im?? looking forward to hearing how you progress!
Elaine's enthusiasm towards swimming new events has been motivating to witness. My next opportunity I will be doing the 100IM, where a year ago I wouldn't have even thought of it.
Yeah... Back in June, I wanted to see if I could swim 100 fly continuously which would mean I could swim a 400 IM. (I hadn't actually tried 100 fly since high school). I made it, so I wanted to see if I could swim a legal 200 fly. To make sure it was legal, I had my husband video the swim, so I could review my stroke. When I (very slowly ) finally made 200 yards without stopping, I decided to keep going to see just how much I could swim. At 900 yards, my husband gave me that if-looks-could-kill glare, because his arms were getting tired from holding the camera. I had lost count of my yards, so I didn't know it was 900 until I reviewed the video. And, yes, it was all legal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fmP1...YtclOJAW-i-gpw
Two weeks later, I decided to swim it again; this time trying to make it to 1,000, because 1,000 sure sounded better to me than 900! So, I brought a tripod and asked my husband to keep track of the yards and let me know where I was from time to time. When I made it to 1,000, I decided to see if I could make it to 1,100... then 1,200, then, well, why not try for a mile? At some point during the video, the file became so large the camera automatically stopped and wrote the file to the card: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PJou...YtclOJAW-i-gpw Bruce started it up again, so my swim is in 2 parts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfKKZ...YtclOJAW-i-gpw At the 2,000 mark, he came around to the end of the pool to tell me the camera stopped again. By the time he finished telling me, it wasn't a continuous swim any longer, so I just stopped. Besides, he was at me about hurting my shoulders again. (See page 36 of the current issue of Swimmer Magazine). Yeah, my shoulders were tired at that point, but they never did hurt; not even the next day or few.
So, (this story is getting long...), I decided if I could swim a 2,000 yard butterfly, I could swim any event at a USMS meet- slow, perhaps, but I could swim it legally.
After swimming my first open water meet (Georgia Games) and swimming a 3k, followed by a 1k a few minutes later, my coach declared me a distance swimmer; especially since I was able to negative split those races and hold my stroke count and pace on my 2,000 yard fly. So, I decided to swim the maximum 10 events allowed at Dixie Zone LC Championships, in early August, and signed up for 5 new (for me) events: 100 fly, 400 fr (on Saturday, in addition to my other three events and a relay); 200 fly, 400 IM, 800fr (on Sunday, in addition to two other events and a relay). My 400m IM was only 8:10 (converts to around 7:10 SCY), but it improved at my next meet (6:51.06); the one on the video you viewed.
So, I really want to keep working on my 400 IM. I am already better at it than some other events I have been training for a lot longer. (Same goes for the 1650.)
I'm not so sure I deserve a , but thanks for your encouragement 'sh!
Thanks, Steve! I would really like to see you swim that 100IM! REALLY! Like, next time you see me at a meet, will you actually come out of the shadows and introduce yourself to me? Don't make me study the heat sheets and go up to every "Steve" and ask if it's you like a stalker!
Edit: Ok... after a little bit of sleuthing I figured out exactly who you are. (It didn't take a rocket scientist, fortunately. ). Still, don't wait for me to track you down at the blocks at the next meet, ok?
Last edited by ElaineK; September 7th, 2012 at 03:01 PM.
Trying to get back into swimming more. Am wanting to train for 400 im and 200 fly. Fly is by far my best stroke although ive lost much of endurance after not swimming hardly at all. After that its probably breast then free and least is back. Should i work fly more than rest or train all evenly? And when i train other strokes should i pick days to work each individual stroke or mainly focus on im sets?
And quick second question: I am a delivery driver and have to lift about 20'000 lbs each day, 5days a week...should i keep a couple days off or would it be better to swim every day shorter swims?