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Thread: The Middle Distance Lane

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    The Middle Distance Lane

    You're not a sprinter and you're not a pure distance swimmer. Your 50's & 1500's aren't as great as your 200's, 400's, & 500's. Your 100's aren't shabby. Let the D Divas take those 800's, 1000's, 1500's & 1650's. You're caught in the middle. You've got OK speed, but you can do those longer sets that make pure sprinters ill. You're well conditioned and tend to do well with back to back events. You're in great company, Michael Phelps and Ryan Lochte are middle distance swimmers who have excellent 100's but not so great 50's. Man you can train.
    This is the middle distance lane. Don't get lapped.


    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showthread.php?t=16584"]the breastroke lane[/ame]


    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showthread.php?t=16601"]The Middle Distance Lane[/ame]


    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showthread.php?t=16587"]The Backstroke Lane[/ame]


    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showthread.php?t=16588"]The Butterfly Lane[/ame]


    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showthread.php?t=16618"]The SDK Lane[/ame]


    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showthread.php?t=16591"]The Taper Lane[/ame]


    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showthread.php?t=16586"]The Distance Lane[/ame]


    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showthread.php?t=16589"]The IM Lane[/ame]


    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showthread.php?t=16585"]The Sprint Free Lane[/ame]


    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showthread.php?t=16619"]The Pool Deck[/ame]
    Last edited by ande; May 6th, 2010 at 10:54 PM.

  2. #2
    sǝssɐןb ɹǝʇʇǝq ʇǝb That Guy's Avatar
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    Re: The Middle Distance Lane

    So how many other middle distancers besides me wish there were 400 events for each stroke and a 600 or 800 IM? Yes, even a 400 fly... it would probably be my best chance at a #1 ranking, though I have no idea how I'd complete it in LCM.

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    Distance Man tjrpatt's Avatar
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    Re: The Middle Distance Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by That Guy View Post
    So how many other middle distancers besides me wish there were 400 events for each stroke and a 600 or 800 IM? Yes, even a 400 fly... it would probably be my best chance at a #1 ranking, though I have no idea how I'd complete it in LCM.
    The day that there is a 800 IM would be happy day for me. I think that I could survive it though. I just wish that they would have the 800 medley relay because I would always have an automatic spot in it.
    Delware Valley Vice Chair, Top Ten Recorder, DV LMSC Records
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    Re: The Middle Distance Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by ande View Post
    You're not a sprinter and you're not a pure distance swimmer. Your 50's & 1500's aren't as great as your 200's, 400's, & 500's. Your 100's aren't shabby. Let the D Divas take those 800's, 1000's, 1500's & 1650's. You're caught in the middle. You've got OK speed, but you can do those longer sets that make pure sprinters ill. You're well conditioned and tend to do well with back to back events. Man you can train.
    Geez, looking at that description again, it's freaky-accurate. Here's the complete list of events that I've ever gotten Top-10 in: 100 fly, 200 back, 200 fly, 400 free, 400 IM. There have been years where I looked at the #10 times in some of the distance events and said, "hmmm, I could have beaten that time" but of course I didn't and the distance guys are welcome to do it instead.

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    Very Active Member Calvin S's Avatar
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    Re: The Middle Distance Lane

    this was my lane in college. although i was in a group known as the "upper mid-distance" lane. we swam in the lane adjacent to the distance group, and did a lot of the same (or VERY VERY similar) sets as the distance group, but without the emphasis on 1000/1650 training, and more an emphasis on the 200/500. however, we ended up playing host to most of the fastest sprinters on our team too (with a few minor exceptions). when the distance group was shooting for 10k a practice, we were somewhere in the neighborhood of 8.5-9.5k, while the actual "mid-distance group" would be somewhere 1-1.5k behind us.

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    Very Active Member Chris Stevenson's Avatar
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    Re: The Middle Distance Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by ande View Post
    You're not a lazy sprinter and you're not a crazy distance swimmer.
    I corrected that for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by That Guy View Post
    So how many other middle distancers besides me wish there were 400 events for each stroke and a 600 or 800 IM?
    That would be great. One of the reasons I am picking up the 400 IM, despite my weak breaststroke, is because I realize that I mostly like to train non-free and the 400 IM was the only option above 200 for strokes.

    Quote Originally Posted by That Guy View Post
    There have been years where I looked at the #10 times in some of the distance events and said, "hmmm, I could have beaten that time" but of course I didn't and the distance guys are welcome to do it instead.
    Part of that -- and this is my opinion only -- is that I think TT in the distance events are a little weaker than in the sprints. Not the top spots, those guys are pretty amazing; I'm talking about spots 5-10. Again, just my opinion (and it is often true of the 200 fly and 400 IM too; many masters avoid those, no idea why.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Calvin S View Post
    this was my lane in college. although i was in a group known as the "upper mid-distance" lane. we swam in the lane adjacent to the distance group, and did a lot of the same (or VERY VERY similar) sets as the distance group,
    Unfortunately we didn't have a mid-D group in college: we had the sprinters, the distance guys, and one group for each stroke. Early on I swam almost exclusively with the distance guys, until I noted with alarm that the coach started regularly putting me in distance events in meets. Then I switched to mostly train with the stroke groups with an occasional visit to the D-guys if I wanted to pound out some yardage.

    I think one main difference between a distance and mid-distance set is the amount of rest. Distance guys don't mind doing sets with very little rest, while I don't mind doing things repeats of 200-500s in practice, I like to have a decent recovery time between reps.

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    Re: The Middle Distance Lane

    Chris,

    that's a somewhat reasonable correction.
    though sprinters work in their own way.

    We now have all the lanes eddie offers his swimmers.
    distance fr, middle distance fr, sprint fr, fly, back, breast, IM, & Taper

    I'm curious to see which one will be most active, right now it looks like the breastrokers have a significant lead.
    I prefer to live on taper time.

    Ande

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stevenson View Post
    Originally Posted by ande
    You're not a lazy sprinter and you're not a crazy distance swimmer.
    I corrected that for you.

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    Very Active Member Chris Stevenson's Avatar
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    Re: The Middle Distance Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by ande View Post
    that's a somewhat reasonable correction.
    though sprinters work in their own way.
    No, it isn't reasonable at all, I was just making a joke. I don't think sprinters are lazy (well, no lazier than the average bear).

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    Very Active Member knelson's Avatar
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    Re: The Middle Distance Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stevenson View Post
    Part of that -- and this is my opinion only -- is that I think TT in the distance events are a little weaker than in the sprints.
    I don't think there is any question at all about that. Way more people swim the shorter events, and thus the TT times are stronger. I noticed there are 81 entries in the men's 40-44 100 IM in Atlanta. There are eight entered in the same age group for the 1650 free. Now, part of that is that distance day is on Thursday, but I doubt there'd be a whole lot more takers if Sunday were distance day!

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    Very Active Member swimshark's Avatar
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    Re: The Middle Distance Lane

    The way I look at it is that I don't have speed, but I can go for a long time at the speed I have

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    Re: The Middle Distance Lane

    Since we're at the beginning of a new season
    I thought I'd bump all the lanes to see which one is winning

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    raced the 200 fly couldbebetterfly's Avatar
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    Re: The Middle Distance Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by ande View Post
    Since we're at the beginning of a new season
    Oh the season has started already? I'm still on my break until small child goes to pre-school, but think I'm headed for the middle distance lane once I get back in the water. I checked out the fly lane earlier and they swim scary amounts of fly, so am sure I'll be happier here.

    So what is the difference between 500 SCY and 400 SCM? .....please don't say 4 lengths or 60 yards - is it a truly different race?
    30something and way too young for my times

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    Re: The Middle Distance Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by couldbebetterfly View Post
    I checked out the fly lane earlier and they swim scary amounts of fly, so am sure I'll be happier here.
    Sorry about that, that's my fault (not that I'm going to change anything)... as knelson noted there, you can train for a short course 200 fly with nothing more than 25's...

    Quote Originally Posted by couldbebetterfly View Post
    So what is the difference between 500 SCY and 400 SCM? .....please don't say 4 lengths or 60 yards - is it a truly different race?
    Yes, it's a different race. I prefer 400 SCM free to 500 SCY free. And I prefer the 400 LCM to the 400 SCM. And prefer 400 OW over 400 LCM. You get the idea. More time focusing on stroke technique, less time spent turning.

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    Very Active Member ElaineK's Avatar
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    Re: The Middle Distance Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by That Guy View Post
    I see you found the new "Smilie" (even though it's missing a face...)!
    http://ElaineiaKsTravels.wordpress.com

    ~ Believing in your dreams can be far more rewarding than living by your limitations ~Karla Peterson

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    Very Active Member Muppet's Avatar
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    Re: The Middle Distance Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by couldbebetterfly View Post
    So what is the difference between 500 SCY and 400 SCM? .....please don't say 4 lengths or 60 yards - is it a truly different race?
    Good question - the 4/4/5 is one of my favorites, and yes they are different, but I'm not sure I can really explain the difference.

    Here is an interesting comparison between by fast 400scm time last december and my fastest 500 time this spring:

    conversions in []
    400 (4:29.49) [5:08.03]: 104.77 [58.03]; 109.09 [101.9]; 108.24 [101.14]; 107.39 [100.38]
    500 (5:02.67) [4:24.80]: 56.14 [102.66]; 102.17 [109.39]; 102.60 [109.87]; 102.27 [109.5]; 59.49 [106.4]
    man up, buttercup!

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    raced the 200 fly couldbebetterfly's Avatar
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    Re: The Middle Distance Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by Muppet View Post
    conversions in []
    400 (4:29.49) [5:08.03]: 104.77 [58.03]; 109.09 [101.9]; 108.24 [101.14]; 107.39 [100.38]
    500 (5:02.67) [4:24.80]: 56.14 [102.66]; 102.17 [109.39]; 102.60 [109.87]; 102.27 [109.5]; 59.49 [106.4]



    That's made me feel slow - I found some old results online (when I was looking for other stuff) from a 400 LCM I swam in '02 - 5.20, but I have gone 5.15 SCM

    But yes - very interesting comparison. I guess I'll work up to some race-pace 500s once I'm back in routine and see how it all feels. I always felt that 400SCM was my best free event, but I would always place better in the 800 due to lack of entrants!

    Then I just need to find a meet to try it out at. If not I'll be back on the fly to mix things up a bit.......but only 25s at a time, of course
    30something and way too young for my times

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    raced the 200 fly couldbebetterfly's Avatar
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    Re: The Middle Distance Lane

    I'm feeling a bit lonely here, but thought I'd throw this out anyway....

    I've been working on my turns and SDKs and have noticed that I come out of my turn rotated to the left, do 3 SDKs on my side, a fourth that kind of straightens me up, then I get into my stroke. Now I come out with left hand over right and my right arm pulls first - ie the one higher in the water. (I still feel slightly rotated when I first pull back)

    I have sometimes pulled back with left hand first, and I don't seem to get as strong a pull, plus I have to move my left hand around my right hand as even if I know I'm going to try a left hand pull, the left hand still ends up on top.

    I'm just curious as to what the rest of you do? - Or if you even think about it?
    30something and way too young for my times

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    Very Active Member Swimosaur's Avatar
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    Re: The Middle Distance Lane

    Counting SCM 400 Free

    Last month I swam a 400 SCM free. The event was seeded fast-to-slow; I was in the first heat. There were 10 lanes in the pool. As we were mounting the blocks, I saw our 10 counters parade onto the bulkhead, carrying their lap counters. Take your marks, and away we go.

    I am pretty good at counting, so I asked my buddy to dunk only laps 11, 13, and 15. I was pretty sure I had counted correctly, so I was a little surprised at the end of lap 11 -- no counter in the pool. Ok, maybe I am off, or maybe he just forgot.

    End of lap 13 -- still no counter. Something's wrong. Hope my buddy didn't have a heart attack from all the excitement. I will have to count it myself. Hope I did it right! The guy in the next lane is ahead of me, so I'll stop when he does. I hope he's right too! End of lap 15, still no counter, in the middle of the sprint -- I REALLY hope I'm right! I don't have another 50 left in me after this one!

    After the race, I asked my buddy what happened. He said an official had marched onto the bulkhead, after the race had already started, and declared it was illegal to count any distance less than 500 yards. So all the counters left, certainly to my surprise, and presumably to the surprise of the other 9 swimmers in the pool.

    This rule is news to me. This is the 3rd 400 SCM free I've done, and for the other two (including at this same meet last year), everyone had counters, no problem.

    I have two questions:

    1. Is this really a rule? Are you allowed to have counters in a 400 SCM freestyle? How about 400 LCM? For safety's sake I like having a counter, but not having one won't be a problem. I'd just like to know the what rule is.

    2. Um ... ahem ... what??? If the official was determined to make this call, then it would have been far better to do so before the race started, and then to make sure all swimmers understood that there would be no counters. As it was, all 10 swimmers had arranged to have a counter, so clearly all 10 swimmers thought that having a counter was legal and appropriate. Pulling the counters off the bulkhead after the race had already started is tantamount to changing the rules in the middle of the race as least as far as the swimmers were concerned. What sayest thou?

    Extra for experts -- I have also been told that it's not legal to have a counter dunk some of the laps -- like 11, 13, and 15 only -- it must be all or none. Others have said this is an NCAA rule but not masters. Personally, I don't know. Any clues are welcome. Thanks!

  19. #19
    Very Active Member thewookiee's Avatar
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    Re: The Middle Distance Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by Swimosaur View Post
    [After the race, I asked my buddy what happened. He said an official had marched onto the bulkhead, after the race had already started, and declared it was illegal to count any distance less than 500 yards. So all the counters left, certainly to my surprise, and presumably to the surprise of the other 9 swimmers in the pool.

    This rule is news to me. This is the 3rd 400 SCM free I've done, and for the other two (including at this same meet last year), everyone had counters, no problem.
    The official was wrong. This is from the USMS rule book. Last time I checked, the 400 scm free was 16 lengths.


    "102.10.6 Counters
    A A swimmer in any individual event of 16 lengths or more, except the
    individual medley, may appoint one counter to call lengths or indicate
    lengths by visual sign"

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    Re: The Middle Distance Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by Swimosaur View Post
    Counting SCM 400 Free

    Last month I swam a 400 SCM free. The event was seeded fast-to-slow; I was in the first heat. There were 10 lanes in the pool. As we were mounting the blocks, I saw our 10 counters parade onto the bulkhead, carrying their lap counters. Take your marks, and away we go.

    I am pretty good at counting, so I asked my buddy to dunk only laps 11, 13, and 15. I was pretty sure I had counted correctly, so I was a little surprised at the end of lap 11 -- no counter in the pool. Ok, maybe I am off, or maybe he just forgot.

    End of lap 13 -- still no counter. Something's wrong. Hope my buddy didn't have a heart attack from all the excitement. I will have to count it myself. Hope I did it right! The guy in the next lane is ahead of me, so I'll stop when he does. I hope he's right too! End of lap 15, still no counter, in the middle of the sprint -- I REALLY hope I'm right! I don't have another 50 left in me after this one!

    After the race, I asked my buddy what happened. He said an official had marched onto the bulkhead, after the race had already started, and declared it was illegal to count any distance less than 500 yards. So all the counters left, certainly to my surprise, and presumably to the surprise of the other 9 swimmers in the pool.

    This rule is news to me. This is the 3rd 400 SCM free I've done, and for the other two (including at this same meet last year), everyone had counters, no problem.!
    Quote Originally Posted by thewookiee View Post
    The official was wrong. This is from the USMS rule book. Last time I checked, the 400 scm free was 16 lengths.


    "102.10.6 Counters
    A A swimmer in any individual event of 16 lengths or more, except the
    individual medley, may appoint one counter to call lengths or indicate
    lengths by visual sign"
    Was that at the St. Nick's meet? I remember you were there, and I was in the same heat as you were for the 400 free. I had just about the same reaction as you -- I really don't need a counter for 16 lengths, but I was expecting one as I like to double check where I am from time to time. It did throw me off a bit, and I was really ticked off at my husband for a minute or two (or five). I think that officials are used to the 400 LCM, which doesn't allow counters, and aren't used to officiating SCM meets. I'm just glad I was tired by then and having a mediocre race; if I had been doing well I wouldn't have been happy about the situation!

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