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Thread: The SDK Lane

  1. #41
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    Re: The SDK Lane

    Great discussion.

    Just curious...how do you determine how many kicks from the wall the mean velocity of the SDK and your mean regular swimming velocity intersect? Or do you believe that your mean SDK velocity is always higher than your mean regular swimming velocity?

  2. #42
    Very Active Member Speedo's Avatar
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    Re: The SDK Lane

    I'm not proficient at SDKs, but have incorporated them in the last year and do 2-3 off of every wall in practice. But something I have noticed- they feel much better in practice than they do in a race.

    If you want to use them effectively in a race, you have to practice them at race pace. Otherwise, you'll just be shakin your groove thang down there.

    I intend to do more 50s (in short course) where the swim is close to race pace, but the walls are at 50 free race pace. These drills will have gobs of rest, as the intent is to concentrate on technique and feel at speed.

    I'm sure there are other ways to improve your SDKs in a race and not just in practice, but this is something I intend to work on.

  3. #43
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    Re: The SDK Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by Speedo View Post
    I intend to do more 50s (in short course) where the swim is close to race pace, but the walls are at 50 free race pace. These drills will have gobs of rest, as the intent is to concentrate on technique and feel at speed.
    If I may suggest: Try doing (what I was taught were called) "Texas 50s". Start in the middle of the pool and do your 50s. You'll get an extra flip turn practice as well as SDK practice.
    "Fran operated under the assumption that one’s ability to cope with the travails of daily life fluctuates in direct proportion to one’s willingness to work through hurt." -Ian Prichard

  4. #44
    Very Active Member Speedo's Avatar
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    Re: The SDK Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by bzaks1424 View Post
    If I may suggest: Try doing (what I was taught were called) "Texas 50s". Start in the middle of the pool and do your 50s. You'll get an extra flip turn practice as well as SDK practice.
    But.... the pool is too deep!

    Thanks for the suggestion.

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    Re: The SDK Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by Speedo View Post
    But.... the pool is too deep!

    Thanks for the suggestion.
    Tread?
    "Fran operated under the assumption that one’s ability to cope with the travails of daily life fluctuates in direct proportion to one’s willingness to work through hurt." -Ian Prichard

  6. #46
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    Re: The SDK Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by TeamTermin View Post
    Great discussion.
    Just curious...
    how do you determine how many kicks from the wall the mean velocity of the SDK and your mean regular swimming velocity intersect?
    Or do you believe that your mean SDK velocity is always higher than your mean regular swimming velocity?
    I call that your sweet spot or idea kick count.

    SDK velocity vs Swimming velocity is different for
    every swimmer and every event.

    My suggestions are:

    + Train to improve your SDK speed,
    strengthen legs for better dives & push offs
    improve streamline
    improve SDK technique & timing
    improve foot flexibility

    + Train to improve your SDK speed endurance & breath control

    + Identify your SDK strengths & weaknesses
    like I'm faster on my back than I am on my belly,
    I'm not so great with breath control and drop my SDK kick count in 200's

    + Train for many months to improve your SDK ability

    + Experiment to determine your SDK kick counts for each race
    If your SDK is terrible & slow, your SDK kick should probably should be 0

    mine are

    50 fr 5 or 6
    100 fr 3 or 4
    200 fr 2 or 3

    50 fl 8 to 10
    100 fl 6 to 8

    50 bk 12
    100 bk 10

    100 IM fl 8 bk 8 to 10 fr 4 or 5
    200 IM fl 6 bk 5 fr 3

  7. #47
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    Re: The SDK Lane

    I just wanted to recommend freestylers watch Ryan Lochte's 200 free win over Tae Hwan Park in the 2010 Pan Pacs (video available on youtube). He used SDK off the turns really well in that race, and it seems his SDK of the final turn was faster than Tae Hwan's final 50...which is usually brutally fast.

    [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTXSMKFSEYQ"]YouTube- Pan Pacs '10: Ryan Lochte wins the 200 Free (Universal Sports)[/nomedia]

  8. #48
    Very Active Member Celestial's Avatar
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    Re: The SDK Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahelee Sue Osborn View Post
    SDK off of every single solitary wall.
    Warm-up, EZ swimming, moderate training, and fast racing.

    Huge mental game at the beginning which soon becomes a great long fast habit.
    I hope you're right - I can really get out of breath doing this, but I've noticed that my competition seems to get ahead of me on every turn this way, and then I have to work even harder between the walls!

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    Re: The SDK Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestial View Post
    I hope you're right - I can really get out of breath doing this, but I've noticed that my competition seems to get ahead of me on every turn this way, and then I have to work even harder between the walls!
    So what you're saying is that learning to SDK more effectively will then be a function of becoming lazier? I LIKE IT!
    "Fran operated under the assumption that one’s ability to cope with the travails of daily life fluctuates in direct proportion to one’s willingness to work through hurt." -Ian Prichard

  10. #50
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    Re: The SDK Lane

    Finally got around to timing an underwater 25m SDK today.

    From a pushoff it was 16 sec on the pace clock. Good or bad?

  11. #51
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    Re: The SDK Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by fmracing View Post
    Finally got around to timing an underwater 25m SDK today.

    From a pushoff it was 16 sec on the pace clock. Good or bad?
    Positively awful. You want to have at least a 30 or a 40 second..... we're going for high score right?

    Actually not that we should compare ourselves to people like Ryan Lochte, but you can find vids of him on youtube doing a 50 SCY in something faster than 25 seconds. Of course - that being a "some day I'd really like to be less than double that" goal seems totally attainable!
    "Fran operated under the assumption that one’s ability to cope with the travails of daily life fluctuates in direct proportion to one’s willingness to work through hurt." -Ian Prichard

  12. #52
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    Re: The SDK Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by bzaks1424 View Post
    Positively awful. You want to have at least a 30 or a 40 second..... we're going for high score right?

    Actually not that we should compare ourselves to people like Ryan Lochte, but you can find vids of him on youtube doing a 50 SCY in something faster than 25 seconds. Of course - that being a "some day I'd really like to be less than double that" goal seems totally attainable!
    I think if I wasn't as tired at the time i could've probably done in the 15 sec range. Seems plausible i could do 13ish in a 25y... the turn and breathing would be the problem for me in a 50. I think about 40 yards wouldn't be a problem... those last 10 though would hurt. I'll make it my goal lol.

    Just for reference what size are lochte's feet?

  13. #53
    Love SWIMMING! Ahelee Sue Osborn's Avatar
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    Re: The SDK Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by fmracing View Post
    Just for reference what size are lochte's feet?
    Yes... I always carry a camera

    Have been waiting for just the right place to post these shoes!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  14. #54
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    Re: The SDK Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahelee Sue Osborn View Post
    Yes... I always carry a camera

    Have been waiting for just the right place to post these shoes!

    They showed the shoes on TV

    Cool pics though... you left out the shoe size tag though. Anyone know what size they are? Look smaller than my shoes.. in size at least.

  15. #55
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    Re: The SDK Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by fmracing View Post
    Finally got around to timing an underwater 25m SDK today.

    From a pushoff it was 16 sec on the pace clock. Good or bad?
    To us mortals that sounds very good. My 25 SCY SDK time is still effectively infinite as I have yet to complete a full length without stopping.

    How many kicks does that take for you? Today I was consistently getting 8 YDS on 10 kicks from a push.

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    Re: The SDK Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl_S View Post
    To us mortals that sounds very good. My 25 SCY SDK time is still effectively infinite as I have yet to complete a full length without stopping.

    How many kicks does that take for you? Today I was consistently getting 8 YDS on 10 kicks from a push.
    Lol... just like counting strokes across the pool was foreign to me before joining this forum... so is counting kicks. I guess I can't even estimate how many. 40? 50? I dolphin kick pretty fast with my size 15 s Not exactly going for distance per kick so much as overall speed.

    Typically if I don't kick at all on a pushoff my feet are at the flags when i come up for the first stroke. If I kick off the turns, my head is at half pool with 3-4 kicks when i take the first stroke. (SCM pool)

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    Re: The SDK Lane

    I suppose another way to phrase my good/bad question might be... when can one call their SDK so good that they should focus more on other things?

    To say you're good enough "when you can kick your 50 sprint pace" sounds wrong. I can't imagine you should ever be able to outkick your swim in a 50 free right? So at what percentage of your 50 pace should an SDK be to start to look elsewhere for things to improve on? 90? 95?

  18. #58
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    Re: The SDK Lane

    I suppose another way to phrase my good/bad question might be... when can one call their SDK so good that they should focus more on other things?
    The goal is to SDK 15 meters as fast as you can. Just because others can cover 15 meters quicker underwater doesn't mean it's right for you. A lot of very fast swimmers flutter kick off the wall.

    Experiment. Test for time. Adjust. Experiment. Test for time...

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    Re: The SDK Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by stillwater View Post
    The goal is to SDK 15 meters as fast as you can. Just because others can cover 15 meters quicker underwater doesn't mean it's right for you. A lot of very fast swimmers flutter kick off the wall.

    Experiment. Test for time. Adjust. Experiment. Test for time...
    Ok... so timing a 15m... at what point do you kinda call it good and work on something else? I kindof train myself as a, work-on-the-weakest-link-first, kind of swimmer. When you get 90-95% of the way there on the entire swim you have to pick out small parts and perfect them to get better. I want to verify that I'm doing everything i can underwater before i move on to the new weakest spot. So at what threshold does one kinda make the call "ok this part is better than the rest of the weaker parts now" and move on?

  20. #60
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    Re: The SDK Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by fmracing View Post
    I can't imagine you should ever be able to outkick your swim in a 50 free right? So at what percentage of your 50 pace should an SDK be to start to look elsewhere for things to improve on? 90? 95?
    I thought that the value of the SDK is that you are going faster than you can swim (whatever stroker you are racing). If your SDK is slower, what is the point of doing it?

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