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Thread: Bringing Back Tech Suits for SCY

  1. #21
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    Re: Bringing Back Tech Suits for SCY

    The reason we are now becoming vocal about the Tech Suit issue is we just found out at Nationals there was a chance of the suits coming back and were advise to write our local leaders. So that is what was done and that is why the issue is coming up now. The difference is members are being informed about it through our own grass roots movement.

    Last year the SPMA was directed by USMS at the National convention to do a poll to find out what the membership wanted. Under the current communication system at the SPMA this was a complete failure. If I have this right SPMA informed all the reps to take a poll. (Or was it just the reps who attended that month's meeting?) Those reps polled their swimmers and then voted at a SPMA meeting. Now you say the rep participation has been dismal. How is that fair and representative to the membership? Why not e-mail the minutes of the meetings with the e-mail for the upcoming meets and clinics? That way when an issue comes up we are interested in we can chase down the rep and let our feelings be known. Had that been done we would have known about the poll a year ago and could have done something about it then. So what was the vote? Am I able to go somewhere and see how many reps voted and which way? I could not find any minutes on this.

    Connie you say we are refusing to use proper USMS procedures. We've been trying to find out what the proper procedure are. I would like to see one e-mail correspondence that shows we are refusing to use proper procedure. I can show you some that show us trying to find out what the proper procedures are. Your post to Dan has gone a long way in understanding the system. We are learning how SPMA works but when I joined I was never informed on how the structure of the SPMA works. I doubt there is one percent of the membership that knows. I never knew there was club reps or meetings. I found out the club rep is the owner who could care less about the SPMA or USMS. Now this is from the largest club in the SPMA. So were does the failure lie? Mine for not getting all the SPMA structure rules or SPMA for not communicating with me or allowing a system of communication through team reps who don't go to meetings? I'm curious, what percentage of teams are attending meetings? I've been a member for six years now and have never heard a report from a team rep. I tried to log into June's meeting but was unable because all the lines were taken. I see by June's minutes there was 30 in attendance. Now there are 78 clubs in SPMA, so even if the reps were to participate, they couldn't anyway since there are not enough conference call lines available.

    So what had started out as a Tech suit issue leads us to a communication issue in the SPMA. So what really needs to be changed is the communication pipeline from the SPMA to it's members. The only real and effective communication is that of meet and clinic schedules from the SPMA newsletter. It's beyond me why the SPMA cannot see the failure in the communication system and have not taken steps to change it years ago. But then again the saying is "Knowledge is power" and by the SPMA not giving knowledge to it's membership the power can remain with the few whole are in the "good old boys club".

  2. #22
    Very Active Member Conniekat8's Avatar
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    Re: Bringing Back Tech Suits for SCY

    Quote Originally Posted by Kerns View Post
    But then again the saying is "Knowledge is power" and by the SPMA not giving knowledge to it's membership the power can remain with the few whole are in the "good old boys club".
    The very member who has been busy badmouthing SPMA via email - I know you saw it, you, and I and that particular member are all on the CC, is the very same person who was in the perfect position (and of rank) within SPMA to explain these things.

    I could see that instead of helping woth 'how to's' they were more interested in finger pointing. I see that access to emails to inform people of either was no problem.

    I only stepped in, on my own accord, when I saw that the person who should have helped you guys, and says they believe in the tech suit cause (and is of appropriate rank) hasn't lifted a finger to help.

    This same member keeps talking about poor communications, and how certain things aren't being communicated, where in fact if one actually reads the "clinic and meet schedule emails" they will see they contain other things too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kerns View Post
    Those reps polled their swimmers and then voted at a SPMA meeting. Now you say the rep participation has been dismal. How is that fair and representative to the membership? Why not e-mail the minutes of the meetings with the e-mail for the upcoming meets and clinics? That way when an issue comes up we are interested in we can chase down the rep and let our feelings be known. Had that been done we would have known about the poll a year ago and could have done something about it then. So what was the vote? Am I able to go somewhere and see how many reps voted and which way? I could not find any minutes on this.
    There was no vote, because the tech suit proponents never put together and submitted the proposal for the rule change. Untill that happens, there is nothing to vote on.

    USMS made the recommendation that the LMSC's poll their membership to see if they want to give the green light to put together a proposal for the rule change. SPMA alrady gave the green light, and had put Pat McGinnley in charge of the effort. We've also given him instructions. At this time, aside from a request for a membership wide poll to analyze general statistics, no rule change verbiage has been submitted.

    Once the rule change proposal has been submitted, SPMA committe and the club reps can vote on whether to present it to the USMS rules committee. Once the rules committee has it in their hands, SPMA's power and involvement stops.

    It's really not such a huge thing that some people would have you think, and us in the SPME good old boys club aren't stopping anyone from doing it. In fact, it was us whom are giving you how to instructions, instead of the higher ranking complaining members who also say they are the tech suit proponents, and who have been able to give you instructions months and months ago.

    They were so good at communicating that the communications are bad, but they couldn't communicate what to do to submit a rule change proposal? I don't understand why one was communicated so easily, and the other was not - by the same people.

    It's a little bit like "I'm not going to do the little things right, till you trust me with something big"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kerns View Post
    We are learning how SPMA works but when I joined I was never informed on how the structure of the SPMA works. I doubt there is one percent of the membership that knows.
    How would you like to be informed?
    There are piles and piles and piles of information, between SPMA, Southwest Zone and USMS Website, and including the USMS rule book. I don't recall how thick the USMS rule book is by now, some 100 pages or so, IIRC. the rest of the governing laws and rules, for SPMA is california code of corporations, then Roberts rules, then SPMA By-laws, and after that policies and procedures.
    Lot of us SPMA volunteers even after a few years don't know quite a few things without looking them up first.
    Trust me, if you want to be involved, noone is keeping this form you.

    What may give the appearance of the good old boys club, perhaps, is the fact taht it's a very structured environment, not all that unlike a court system.
    -Connie
    I'd rather be swimming http://www.mastersmvnswim.org/

  3. #23
    Very Active Member Conniekat8's Avatar
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    Re: Bringing Back Tech Suits for SCY

    Quote Originally Posted by Conniekat8 View Post
    How would you like to be informed?
    There are piles and piles and piles of information, between SPMA, Southwest Zone and USMS Website, and including the USMS rule book. I don't recall how thick the USMS rule book is by now, some 100 pages or so, IIRC. the rest of the governing laws and rules, for SPMA is california code of corporations, then Roberts rules, then SPMA By-laws, and after that policies and procedures.
    Just to add, when Pat mcGinnley came to the meeting and asked about the tech suit, we gave him the basic info, gave him the green light to put together the rules proposal change, directed him to make contact with Pacific LMSC who has already done one, for samples and whatever else info he can get there. I've also seen a lot of more detailed followup information go to him via email.

    All of which was sent to him by the 'good old boys club' rather then the members who have access to the same info and claim to be your proponents. Right now, we are waiting to get the proposed rule change. Once we do, it can be voted on whether or not to pass it on to the USMS Rules committee. This happened 8-10 days ago. I'd have to look it up to be sure.

    We didn't wait till the 'membership is polled' via club assistant to convince us to give the green light.

    As for how to get involved on other things, let me know, and I'll try to answer as best as I can, or help direct you where it can be looked up - I don't know it all off the top of my head. There is a huge amount of information available, I can't even begin to guess what may or may not be interesting to you.

    If you are interested in local things being discussed at the SPMA meetings, the agenda usually gets posted several days before the meeting on the SPMA website.

    If you are interested in many other administartive issues within SPMA, the website, emails and the swimmer magazine newsletter insert all have a lot of contact information for SPMA officers, who would be happy to assist you.

    Last SPMA news email newletter that went out a few days ago also has links to a lot of those things at the bottom, under "Handy Links".
    -Connie
    I'd rather be swimming http://www.mastersmvnswim.org/

  4. #24
    Very Active Member LindsayNB's Avatar
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    Re: Bringing Back Tech Suits for SCY

    Unless the USMS rules already cover the issue of availability I would suggest that the proposed rule change needs to be expanded to include a requirement that suits need to be generally commercially available in order to be used in competition. It's clearly unfair if some competitors have access to suits while other competitors can not buy the same suit at any cost.

  5. #25
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    Re: Bringing Back Tech Suits for SCY

    Quote Originally Posted by jpheather View Post
    The proper procedures are in the bylaws, that have been posted on the SPMA website for many many years.
    It would have been nice to have been given that information at the beginning of June when the issue started.

    Quote Originally Posted by jpheather View Post
    The club rep for the largest club in SPMA is Michael Collins, NOVA, who has participated in many many conference calls
    I stand corrected. I thought SCAQ was. I guess a lot of SCAQ members haven't join the SPMA. As far as a club size goes, SCAQ is the largest. How many conference calls has Clay attended?

    Quote Originally Posted by jpheather View Post
    The meetings are open to the general membership, per our bylaws. Notification of the meetings has been in many emails sent to all members, in addition to emails sent to club reps.
    I do not believe that I've ever gotten one of these emails.

    Quote Originally Posted by jpheather View Post
    You may not have been given the correct instructions. The instructions I sent to all the clubs had TWO different codes that could be used to call in. The first code filled up and others were able to use the second code to join the call. I can't be responsible for instructions you got from someone other than me.
    I was given a code. It was a correct code. I know this because I was told that all the lines were full for the conference by a recording. I was not given a second code. Never knew there were 2 codes. So everyone needs to call you to get access? Just another example of the poor communication system in place by the SPMA.

    Quote Originally Posted by jpheather View Post
    AND THE NOTIFICATION OF THE CONFERENCE CALLS IS INCLUDED IN THE EMAILS ABOUT THE MEETS AND CLINICS. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. I have never received an email from you, or anyone else, requesting additional information about the conference calls. If you had emailed me, you would have received the date, time, call in number and code(s). In addition, you would have been asked if you wanted to be placed on the committee mailing list, so you would receive copies of all the reports.
    So now I know. Well, using your horse analogy, I've been getting the information once the horse has left the barn. Why do I have to ask to be put on the list to get information? I never asked to get the emails about the upcoming meets and clinics yet I get those.

    The fact is the information pipeline needs fixing. Even your husband's club does not pass out the information to it's master swimmers. I talked to a swimmer from the Rose Bowl Club and they said, "I have never been given information from the coach or anyone else". The system of passing information to the team reps, who for the most part do not attend meetings, is not working. It would be easy to send out all information and meeting minutes with the emails for upcoming meets. If people are not interested they do not have to read it. Just like SPMA members who do not compete do not have to read about upcoming meets if they don't want to.

    There is a very large group that supports the Tech suit change. The community was never given a chance to voice their opinion. Because we are becoming so vocal about not having our opinion heard when it should have been dealt with last year, should be a red flag to the SMPA as to their procedures for disseminating information. It's time for the SPMA to stop using their smoke and mirror tactics, pull their head out of the sand and make some changes that make the system more user friendly for the membership.

  6. #26
    Active Member Jessica Seaton's Avatar
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    Re: Bringing Back Tech Suits for SCY

    Quote Originally Posted by Kerns View Post
    There is a very large group that supports the Tech suit change. The community was never given a chance to voice their opinion. Because we are becoming so vocal about not having our opinion heard when it should have been dealt with last year, should be a red flag to the SMPA as to their procedures for disseminating information. It's time for the SPMA to stop using their smoke and mirror tactics, pull their head out of the sand and make some changes that make the system more user friendly for the membership.
    Hubie,

    I ran into Clay Evans earlier today outside the Culver City Plunge. He told me he is very opposed to bringing back the tech suits. He said most of the SCAQ swimmers are opposed to bringing back the tech suits and that those in favor of the tech suits represent a minority. He told me I could post this on the forum.

    No one has stopped you from being involved in SPMA and in fact we've encouraged you to become more involved repeatedly. However, you're not doing yourself any favors by attacking those who have spent countless hours working tirelessly for the organization while people like you stand on the sidelines and benefit from our hours. Those of us who have been involved, and most of us have been involved for over 10 years, got involved because we care about the organization and masters swimming as a whole. We don't have one issue, such as tech suits, where we have some sort of personal agenda. We figured out how to get involved with SPMA, which, with a modicum of effort is not difficult to do.

    Every two months you get USMS Swimmer Magazine with the SPMA inserted newsletter. On the last page of the newsletter is a list of the SPMA officers. Had you been interested you could have either phoned or e-mailed any of the SPMA officers. If you lost your magazine, you could have googled SPMA or Masters swimming in Southern California and accessed meeting minutes, bylaws, etc. Since you compete, you also could have asked SPMA's Quartermaster, Trisha Commons, who distributes awards at every SPMA meet, how to get involved. This is not smoke and mirrors, again, it is just a lack of initiative on your part until you had a personal agenda: tech suits.

    Personally, I'm getting very tired of your criticisms and have yet to see anything constructive come of your rambling e-mails. You've been encouraged to get involved, so join the next conference call in a timely manner and learn how the organization works, and contribute in a positive way.

  7. #27
    Active Member Jessica Seaton's Avatar
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    Re: Bringing Back Tech Suits for SCY

    Clay Evans asked me to post this from him:
    The majority of SCAQ is NOT in favor of the Tech suits. As head coach, founder and director of SCAQ we have not taken a poll.

    The Tech suits are horrific. They break the purity of the sport, they break the history of the sport and worse the become a huge barrier for entry to the sport. It is most unfortunate to see races decided and placings scrambled due to the suit a person was wearing rather than how they were swimming. I was appalled that this ever escalading corporate war of suit companies was the major focus of swimming the last few years. The public was being duped! The biggest beneficiaries were profits coming from raking swimmers over the coals. Swimmers got a false sense of pride in achieving records that were wrongly assisted.

    I hope that our wonderful sport is never again blemished like this.

    Clay Evans
    SCAQ Head Coach & Director
    SCAQ 30 years old
    USMS member 31 years
    72 & 76 Olympian

  8. #28
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    Re: Bringing Back Tech Suits for SCY

    Quote Originally Posted by Conniekat8 View Post
    The very member who has been busy badmouthing SPMA via email - I know you saw it, you, and I and that particular member are all on the CC, is the very same person who was in the perfect position (and of rank) within SPMA to explain these things.

    I could see that instead of helping woth 'how to's' they were more interested in finger pointing. I see that access to emails to inform people of either was no problem.

    I only stepped in, on my own accord, when I saw that the person who should have helped you guys, and says they believe in the tech suit cause (and is of appropriate rank) hasn't lifted a finger to help.

    This same member keeps talking about poor communications, and how certain things aren't being communicated, where in fact if one actually reads the "clinic and meet schedule emails" they will see they contain other things too.
    Well Connie you're wrong. This member has been a big help in pointing out the failures in the system. Since when has pointing out truths and failures in the running of an organization badmouthing? What I know is fact, is the membership as a whole was never contacted about a vote at USMS or a poll of SPMA last year regarding the tech suits. The SPMA committee is trying to lay the blame on the membership for their lack of psychic abilities for not knowing about the poll. It would seem that something as big and as important which effects all the competition swimmers would have been something the committee would have tried to learn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conniekat8 View Post
    There was no vote, because the tech suit proponents never put together and submitted the proposal for the rule change. Untill that happens, there is nothing to vote on.
    Once again, the proposal would have but together last had we known. I do believe John Quinn submitted a proposal a week ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conniekat8 View Post
    USMS made the recommendation that the LMSC's poll their membership to see if they want to give the green light to put together a proposal for the rule change. SPMA alrady gave the green light, and had put Pat McGinnley in charge of the effort. We've also given him instructions. At this time, aside from a request for a membership wide poll to analyze general statistics, no rule change verbiage has been submitted.
    Should I post John's proposal that was submitted a week ago here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Conniekat8 View Post
    Once the rule change proposal has been submitted, SPMA committe and the club reps can vote on whether to present it to the USMS rules committee. Once the rules committee has it in their hands, SPMA's power and involvement stops.

    It's really not such a huge thing that some people would have you think, and us in the SPME good old boys club aren't stopping anyone from doing it. In fact, it was us whom are giving you how to instructions, instead of the higher ranking complaining members who also say they are the tech suit proponents, and who have been able to give you instructions months and months ago.
    We just found her last month to let her know how we felt. So how could she give us information months and months ago when she didn't even know who or wear the proponents are? She has been helping. Like I said John submitted the proposal last week. So how is that going?

    Quote Originally Posted by Conniekat8 View Post
    They were so good at communicating that the communications are bad, but they couldn't communicate what to do to submit a rule change proposal? I don't understand why one was communicated so easily, and the other was not - by the same people.
    Like I said John submitted the proposal last week. So how is that going?

    Quote Originally Posted by Conniekat8 View Post
    It's a little bit like "I'm not going to do the little things right, till you trust me with something big"
    Trust is gone because SPMA can't do the important issue right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conniekat8 View Post
    How would you like to be informed?
    There are piles and piles and piles of information, between SPMA, Southwest Zone and USMS Website, and including the USMS rule book. I don't recall how thick the USMS rule book is by now, some 100 pages or so, IIRC. the rest of the governing laws and rules, for SPMA is california code of corporations, then Roberts rules, then SPMA By-laws, and after that policies and procedures.
    Lot of us SPMA volunteers even after a few years don't know quite a few things without looking them up first.
    Trust me, if you want to be involved, noone is keeping this form you.
    I would like to be informed in the email that goes out that has all the meets and clinics on it. When I say "I" here, I'm talking about the membership. All minutes from the meeting should be on it. The date and time of the meetings should be there along with the pass word to log into the meetings. If someone is not interested they don't have to read it. All the rules and bylaws etc do not need to be sent out. On the website is just fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conniekat8 View Post
    What may give the appearance of the good old boys club, perhaps, is the fact taht it's a very structured environment, not all that unlike a court system.
    Some things work very well at SPMA. You need to look at that structure and see that there is a piece that is broken and needs fixing.
    Last edited by Kerns; July 2nd, 2010 at 02:33 AM.

  9. #29
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    Re: Bringing Back Tech Suits for SCY

    Quote Originally Posted by Jessica Seaton View Post
    Hubie,

    I ran into Clay Evans earlier today outside the Culver City Plunge. He told me he is very opposed to bringing back the tech suits. He said most of the SCAQ swimmers are opposed to bringing back the tech suits and that those in favor of the tech suits represent a minority. He told me I could post this on the forum.
    I see Clay all the time and he told me today he was going to post against Tech suits. Yes Clay is absolutely against Tech suits. However he has not polled SCAQ asking who is for or against tech suits. He may have talked to a few swimmers, I don't know but he has not polled the club. He is one person, one vote. I have polled the SCAQ swimmers who compete at the meets and all but one is in favor of the suits.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jessica Seaton View Post
    No one has stopped you from being involved in SPMA and in fact we've encouraged you to become more involved repeatedly. However, you're not doing yourself any favors by attacking those who have spent countless hours working tirelessly for the organization while people like you stand on the sidelines and benefit from our hours. Those of us who have been involved, and most of us have been involved for over 10 years, got involved because we care about the organization and masters swimming as a whole. We don't have one issue, such as tech suits, where we have some sort of personal agenda. We figured out how to get involved with SPMA, which, with a modicum of effort is not difficult to do.

    Every two months you get USMS Swimmer Magazine with the SPMA inserted newsletter. On the last page of the newsletter is a list of the SPMA officers. Had you been interested you could have either phoned or e-mailed any of the SPMA officers. If you lost your magazine, you could have googled SPMA or Masters swimming in Southern California and accessed meeting minutes, bylaws, etc. Since you compete, you also could have asked SPMA's Quartermaster, Trisha Commons, who distributes awards at every SPMA meet, how to get involved. This is not smoke and mirrors, again, it is just a lack of initiative on your part until you had a personal agenda: tech suits.

    Personally, I'm getting very tired of your criticisms and have yet to see anything constructive come of your rambling e-mails. You've been encouraged to get involved, so join the next conference call in a timely manner and learn how the organization works, and contribute in a positive way.
    You still don't get it. It's not about the tech suits issue any more but about the way the SPMA distributes information. Please send me the email sent out to the membership from last year that says we are trying to find out how our membership feels about the tech suits that we are going to vote on at the National convention . Show me what I never received and I'll shut up. It's now about the failure of SPMA information pipeline.

  10. #30
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    Re: Bringing Back Tech Suits for SCY

    Quote Originally Posted by Jessica Seaton View Post
    Clay Evans asked me to post this from him:
    The majority of SCAQ is NOT in favor of the Tech suits. As head coach, founder and director of SCAQ we have not taken a poll.
    Once again. If he has taken a poll it's not of all the members. I've taken a poll of the SCAQ members at the meets and all but one is in favor of the suits.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jessica Seaton View Post
    The Tech suits are horrific. They break the purity of the sport, they break the history of the sport and worse the become a huge barrier for entry to the sport. It is most unfortunate to see races decided and placings scrambled due to the suit a person was wearing rather than how they were swimming. I was appalled that this ever escalading corporate war of suit companies was the major focus of swimming the last few years. The public was being duped! The biggest beneficiaries were profits coming from raking swimmers over the coals. Swimmers got a false sense of pride in achieving records that were wrongly assisted.

    I hope that our wonderful sport is never again blemished like this.

    Clay Evans
    SCAQ Head Coach & Director
    SCAQ 30 years old
    USMS member 31 years
    72 & 76 Olympian

  11. #31
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    Re: Bringing Back Tech Suits for SCY

    Quote Originally Posted by jpheather View Post
    OK, so you're admitting you get the emails about the upcoming meets and clinics.

    Yet, you say you never gotten notification of the conference calls.

    I put a Table of Contents at the top of each email. All you have to do is read it.

    For example, check the email I sent on June 7th:
    In this issue:
    Las Vegas LCM meet, June 19th
    SPMA Committee Conference Call, June 17th
    July/August SPMA Newsletter available online
    Open Water swimmers and Tech suits!
    Handy Links

    Over the years, I've included conference call information in many emails, and I've never had a request for more information. But it is there for any who would like to become involved.
    Julie,

    I only have June 24th email. But I sure you are right when you say it was listed. I have never noticed before but that's my issue not yours. I assume both codes were listed there. The minutes would be good too. It might make more people take notice to the inter workings and get more people involved.

  12. #32
    Paint test area ahead Michael Heather's Avatar
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    Re: Bringing Back Tech Suits for SCY

    This may or may not add clarity to the issue at hand.

    In July, 2009, FINA suddenly announced that tech suits were going to be banned. This is an international organization under which all National Governing Bodies (NGB) agree to operate their aquatic competitive operations. USA is the only country that has an independent Masters swimming organization, all others are part of the national (olympic) NGB. We (USMS) have agreed to abide by the same rules as all other NGBs and are full members in FINA.

    USMS has 52 subsidiaries, called Local Masters Swimming Committees (LMSC), of which SPMA is one.

    When USMS agrees to follow FINA rules, SPMA automatically agrees to go along with that because we are not a stand alone operation.

    FINA did not rule on the Masters tech suit until January, 2010. This, and the above information are why the local swimmers were not polled by SPMA or any clubs about how they felt about tech suits. FINA does not care about your opinion, it cares only about the integrity of swimming as a sport. It felt that the tech suits were becoming the stars, rather than the swimmers.

    The timeline above also indicates that there was nothing to poll about in 2009, because Masters were not affected until January of this year. USMS had made a ruling in January that the tech suits could be used in scy meets until June 01, 2010, only because the season had already started and some swimmers would have been unfairly advantaged by using the suits while still legal if USMS had followed the FINA ruling immediately.

    Manufacturers had already stopped production of most of the suits in September of last year, there is no indication that they would start up production again for such a small segment, and if they did, the suits would be cheap at $500. Even if every masters swimmer in the USA promised to buy one, that is only 50,000 suits, when these companies are selling millions per year. In comparison, that is why Maserati cars are so expensive, compared to a Chevy. Sure, they are available for purchase, but not everyone could reasonably afford one. That is the same situation that the tech suits would create of they were to come back for any reason other than complete acceptance.

    FINA will revisit the rulings in 2013, I suggest we wait until then to see of they relent on coverage, zippers, or material.
    The opinions expressed in the above post are mine, not those of U.S. Masters Swimming. But maybe they should be.

  13. #33
    Very Active Member Conniekat8's Avatar
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    Re: Bringing Back Tech Suits for SCY

    Quote Originally Posted by Kerns View Post
    Well Connie you're wrong.....
    Ennnh, I wouldn't be so sure if I were you.

    However, lets talk about this.... if you could make changes within the SPMA, any changes, to make it operate the way you would want, what would they be?
    -Connie
    I'd rather be swimming http://www.mastersmvnswim.org/

  14. #34
    Very Active Member Conniekat8's Avatar
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    Re: Bringing Back Tech Suits for SCY

    Quote Originally Posted by Kerns View Post
    Should I post John's proposal that was submitted a week ago here?
    I asked a few people to double check if the last I heard was the latest. It is. We got the first one, the same thing that jqswim also posted here. That has been answered and further instructions given on how to turn it into an actual rule change proposal, in a format that actually constitutes the rule change.

    This means not just saying, we want the rule to change, we didn't get the poll, we haven't been heard, someone sits looks at the current verbiage, and redlines it to reflect the new verbiage. We already gave the green light to do things that people seem to think require a poll.

    Guys submitting the first one have been instructed how to do this. Nothing has been resubmitted. Once the green light has been given, someone actually has to sit down and do the work to make it happen.
    -Connie
    I'd rather be swimming http://www.mastersmvnswim.org/

  15. #35
    Very Active Member Conniekat8's Avatar
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    Re: Bringing Back Tech Suits for SCY

    Quote Originally Posted by Conniekat8 View Post
    Ennnh, I wouldn't be so sure if I were you.

    However, lets talk about this.... if you could make changes within the SPMA, any changes, to make it operate the way you would want, what would they be?
    Anything? Anyone? We're listening!
    -Connie
    I'd rather be swimming http://www.mastersmvnswim.org/

  16. #36
    Very Active Member Conniekat8's Avatar
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    Re: Bringing Back Tech Suits for SCY

    I see, noone is posting here, or going trough proper channels, but personal accusatory emails about "noone at SPMA listening" are still going around.

    *sigh*

    By the way, the 'proper' rule proposal was eventually written, and submitted to SPMA Committee for a vote, wether to present it to USMS Rules Committee.
    SPMA Club and Committee Members voted.

    Proposed vote was:
    Yes = Submit the rule change proposal to USMS Rules Committee
    NO = Do Not submit the rule change proposal to USMS Rules Committee

    Approximately two thirds of the SPMA Voting members voted NO.

    [kitty braces herself to hear all about how the vote was gamed and rigged]
    -Connie
    I'd rather be swimming http://www.mastersmvnswim.org/

  17. #37
    Active Member SCAQ Member's Avatar
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    Re: Bringing Back Tech Suits for SCY

    In 2009 over 1,000 swimmers converged upon the Belmont Plaza to compete in the SPMA Short Course Meters Regional Championships. I was one of them!

    Move one year forward to the year 2010 and the meet attendance numbers suffered just about a 50% falloff. That equates to $15,000 in lost revenue for the Grunions who put on an amazingly great meet each year and who use the money to fund their programs.

    If one looks at the Masters meet attendance throughout the 2009 season, a de facto falloff is glaringly evident. I think the answer is obvious and tech suits should be reinstated for at least short course yards season so as to bolster USMS numbers and revenue.
    Last edited by SCAQ Member; January 1st, 2011 at 10:26 PM. Reason: typo

  18. #38
    Very Active Member Lump's Avatar
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    Re: Bringing Back Tech Suits for SCY

    Quote Originally Posted by SCAQ Member View Post
    In 2009 over 1,000 swimmers converged upon the Belmont Plaza to compete in the SPMA Short Course Meters Regional Championships. I was one of them!

    Move one year forward to the year 2010 and the meet attendance numbers suffered just about a 50% falloff. That equates to $15,000 in lost revenue for the Grunions who put on an amazingly great meet each year and who use the money to fund their programs.

    If one looks at the Masters meet attendance throughout the 2009 season, a de facto falloff is glaringly evident. I think the answer is obvious and tech suits should be reinstated for at least short course yards season so as to bolster USMS numbers and revenue.
    If meet attendence is off by 50% in this economy, why would you think reinstituting $300 suits would raise it?!

  19. #39
    Very Active Member thewookiee's Avatar
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    Re: Bringing Back Tech Suits for SCY

    Quote Originally Posted by SCAQ Member View Post
    If one looks at the Masters meet attendance throughout the 2009 season, a de facto falloff is glaringly evident. I think the answer is obvious and tech suits should be reinstated for at least short course yards season so as to bolster USMS numbers and revenue.
    Give it a rest already.


    Until FINA decides to let some verision of a body suit(ie shoulders to knee) back in to world swimming, USMS should follow the same suit rules as everyone else.

  20. #40
    Active Member Grunion's Avatar
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    Re: Bringing Back Tech Suits for SCY

    Quote Originally Posted by SCAQ Member View Post
    In 2009 over 1,000 swimmers converged upon the Belmont Plaza to compete in the SPMA Short Course Meters Regional Championships. I was one of them!

    Move one year forward to the year 2010 and the meet attendance numbers suffered just about a 50% falloff. That equates to $15,000 in lost revenue for the Grunions who put on an amazingly great meet each year and who use the money to fund their programs.

    If one looks at the Masters meet attendance throughout the 2009 season, a de facto falloff is glaringly evident. I think the answer is obvious and tech suits should be reinstated for at least short course yards season so as to bolster USMS numbers and revenue.
    Correction: As the Meet Director of the SPMA Championships I can confirm there were 650 swimmers not 1000....I wish.
    2010....524 swimmers.

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