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Thread: Dryland Training For Swimmers

  1. #21
    Very Active Member ourswimmer's Avatar
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    Re: Dryland Training For Swimmers

    Quote Originally Posted by ap4305 View Post
    Some common dryland dysfunctions that manifest themselves in the water include....


    Poor landing skills. A lot of swimmers spend too much time on the wall during their turns because they don't know how to land softly and change directions. When performing jumping drills (whether plyo jumps or simply jumping rope) the focus should not only be on the explosiveness of the push, but also on the quality of the landing.
    I think this observation is excellent. In a short course mile I have to "jump" 65 times in 19-ish minutes. Moments wasted on poor foot placement and use can really add up. There are a lot of trainable muscles in the feet and ankles.

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    Re: Dryland Training For Swimmers

    Following up on the point about feet and ankles...It is critical to both assess and train the lower extremities dynamically. This doesn't mean we go straight into working on jumping skills but it does mean that the feet and ankles are very revealing of certain "core" limitations. There are many people who can achieve good ankle range of motion in a static, non-weight bearing state who lose that mobility the instant they put their ankles under a load. The cause is frequently related not to sports factors but instead to a lifestyle in developed countries that inhibits hip and ankle mobility (i.e.high heeled footwear, mechanized transportation, lots of time seated). There's nothing wrong with this, but it does help to know what is causing the limitations if the foot and ankle aren't working as desired.


    Before getting into jumps, the body weight (or "naked") squat that Grif referenced is not only a good exercise, it also is a valuable lower extremity assessment tool. One reason that good strength coaches require perfect body weight squats before getting into jumps is that you can "fake" ankle mobility by adding load. If you can't do a perfect-form squat without weight, but you can get a full range of motion WITH weight (or under a jump), you have simply collapsed at the bottom. That's NOT dynamic ankle mobility; but it is a good way to hurt your knees and low back, especially for swimmers who spend most of their training time in a non-weight bearing state. We want to achieve authentic ankle flexion that flows from stable feet and knees combined with mobile hip sockets. The ankles are part of a lower extremity kinetic chain that requires well timed core activation, mobile hips, stable knees, and stable feet to operate efficiently.
    Last edited by ap4305; July 8th, 2010 at 07:36 PM.

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    Re: Dryland Training For Swimmers

    Today I went to my bootcamp class with this thread in the back of my mind, mostly how I should be careful with how I do plyometric type dryland exercises.
    I noticed that some of the more strenuous jumping exercises could injure one if not performed mindfully. I was pretty good at the squat jumps, but hesitant about the "skating". I don't understand how doing this exercise could help me, so I kind of hopped side to side.
    I guess that the question is, should I focus more on straight-plane exercises for the lower extremity, or would multi-plane exercises be just as beneficial? I just don't see them as functional for swimming as something as a squat jump, which essentially mimics pushing off of the wall.

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    Re: Dryland Training For Swimmers

    Quote Originally Posted by KEWebb18 View Post
    Today I went to my bootcamp class with this thread in the back of my mind, mostly how I should be careful with how I do plyometric type dryland exercises.
    I noticed that some of the more strenuous jumping exercises could injure one if not performed mindfully.

    Hmmm...now there's an understatement

    I won't go on a complete boot camp rant, but I will say that many of these exercises that get hastily culled together in these boot camps were not designed to be conditioning tools. These exercises/drills were designed as skill tools to supplement the sport specific training of athletes that had gone through a multiyear progression of mastering basic drills before moving on to the more advanced ones. Doing complex plyometrics in the state of fatigue that most people work themselves into during boot camp class is simply a recipe for injury. A skilled coach with a small group of high level athletes can push the condtioning envelope with complex plyos, but the stuff most boot camp instructors do with their class is just scary (note I said "most"...there are some good ones out there).

    Regarding the use of multi-planar lower extremity exercises for swimming...yes, they are important (especially for women, due to pelvic structure and the role of hip mobility and stability in protecting the lower back and knees). I don't think you need to spend the time and energy on multi-planar plyos, but it is critical for the hips to function dynamically in all planes. Let's put it this way...if you don't have hip mobility in all planes when you ask your body to perform any type of rotational activity, your body will find a way to find movement from some less efficient mobility source such as the lower back and/or the knees.

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    Re: Dryland Training For Swimmers

    I agree, exercises must be done in all 3 planes of motion but do not necessarily have to plyometrics. Again, it all comes down to progession. Before performing a skater you should master a bodyweight lateral lunge and then move on to a lateral lunge with external resistance. Once these movements are mastered and one can demonstrate CONTROL it may be time to try a skater at a low amplitude and progress the distance from there.


    My favorite training protocol for training all 3 planes of motion is called the dumbell matrix and was designed by one of the great physical therapists in Gary Gray.

    Also, have any of you guys been incorporating ropes into your training?

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    Re: Dryland Training For Swimmers

    I posted this article on another topic. I wrote this for ASCA in 2006 an relates to this topic.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by Grif; July 13th, 2010 at 10:11 AM.

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    Re: Dryland Training For Swimmers

    Recently I ran across this list of the "10 best core exercises"
    http://exercise.about.com/od/abs/ss/abexercises.htm

    I note that many Forumites and USMS bloggers do planks, which is #10. About six weeks ago I added these to my dry-land circuit. I'd like to see what others have to say about three issues:

    1) I have tried both the regular planks and "modified planks". (In the latter, one supports body weight by elbows and knees, instead of elbows and toes as in the regular planks. There are pictures at the link above.) The regular planks seem to engage the muscles around the rib cage most, while the modified planks seem to engage the muscles in the lower abdomen most. The latter seems more appropriate for swimmers, especially if one is trying to build a better SDK, but they are slightly less effort overall. Any thoughts on this?

    2) How long should one hold the plank and how many reps should one do? The web site says 20-60 s (3-5 reps). 60s x 5 reps doesn't seem excessive if they are done as part of a larger cycle. (See point 3 below.) I am thinking that maybe I should build up to holding the plank for a duration equivalent to a race, say about 2:30 if I wanted to focus on 200 IM. This would get pretty ridiculous if I wanted to focus on training for the 1500 free though!

    3) Suppose I do 3 different exercises (e.g. planks, curls, squats). What are the relative merits of doing them in a cycle (planks, curls, squats, planks, curls, squats...) versus doing them serially, (planks, planks, planks, curls, curls, curls, squats, squats, squats...)?

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    Re: Dryland Training For Swimmers

    I love planks and all the different things that can be done with the different progression.

    You have somew good questions and I will try to answer them the best I can.

    1 - I would say just because we "feel" certain muscles working more doesn't mean thats all that is working. When we do a plank we are teaching the inner muscles of the core to stabilize the spine (this is one train of thought and the one that I agree with). Stabilizing the spine will allows to to transmit foirce better and maintain proper posture in the water. When you plank from your knees it is obviously less intense therefore requiring less spinal stabilization. I feel from the kness is less effective for this reason.


    2 - The length is a good debate. Anything over a minute gets a little ridiculous. I would work on increasing the intensity such as a 3 pt plank (lift a leg or arm) try a 3 pt plank with that 1 arm overhead! That is a killer. If you can hold proper form in that position for a minute you have plenty of core strength

    3 - Its not exactly the pattern you do - its the rest between sets. For example of I do 3 sets of planks for 1 minute and take 30 seconds rest in between it would be beneficial to do some pull ups during the rest period. Reall, its the difference of doin another exercise during your rest time between planks instead of just sitting there.

    Hope this helps

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    Re: Dryland Training For Swimmers

    Quote Originally Posted by Grif View Post
    .

    try a 3 pt plank with that 1 arm overhead!
    I am having trouble picturing this one - got a diagram?

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    Re: Dryland Training For Swimmers

    Quote Originally Posted by fatboy View Post
    I am having trouble picturing this one - got a diagram?
    Not exactly but see if this makes sense:

    1) Get in a standard plank (toes and elbows)
    2) Lift one arm up and point it forward (like superman)

    Tada! 3 point plank!

    Now where it gets fun is if you lift one foot and point it (diagonal from the arm pointing forward) and make a 2 point plank!
    "Fran operated under the assumption that one’s ability to cope with the travails of daily life fluctuates in direct proportion to one’s willingness to work through hurt." -Ian Prichard

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    Re: Dryland Training For Swimmers

    Its very very hard to do!

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    Re: Dryland Training For Swimmers

    Quote Originally Posted by bzaks1424 View Post
    Not exactly but see if this makes sense:

    1) Get in a standard plank (toes and elbows)
    2) Lift one arm up and point it forward (like superman)

    Tada! 3 point plank!

    Now where it gets fun is if you lift one foot and point it (diagonal from the arm pointing forward) and make a 2 point plank!
    I get the three point plank - but your arm is then pointing forward - level with your head and horizontal (parallel) to the floor.. OK - great.

    How do you get it to be overhead? Are we talking just a few degrees from the horizontal?

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    Re: Dryland Training For Swimmers

    Quote Originally Posted by fatboy View Post
    I get the three point plank - but your arm is then pointing forward - level with your head and horizontal (parallel) to the floor.. OK - great.

    How do you get it to be overhead? Are we talking just a few degrees from the horizontal?
    I don't think when they say over head they mean literally higher than your head, I think they mean pointing foward... things get weird when you start talking in terms of horizontal vs. vertical.
    "Fran operated under the assumption that one’s ability to cope with the travails of daily life fluctuates in direct proportion to one’s willingness to work through hurt." -Ian Prichard

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    Very Active Member mjtyson's Avatar
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    Re: Dryland Training For Swimmers

    Side planks are fun, too. Lower arm and side of foot. When you get better, you raise your outer leg.

    You can also do a front plank, when your minute is up rotate over to a side plank, back to front, over to the other side, then finish with front. Very tough ab workout.
    --Mike Tyson (yes, my real name)

    https://blogs.marathonswimmers.org/ironmike/

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    Re: Dryland Training For Swimmers

    2 sets of each
    tri & quad extensions
    bicep & hamstring curls
    butter fly for delts & pecs
    tri pull downs
    300 crunches
    20 min elipptcal
    15 min bike

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    Re: Dryland Training For Swimmers

    That is exactly what a 3 pt plank is - when in position you lift the arm up so it is parallel to the floor. The key to doing this correctly is to not turn the hips up. Keep the hips straight without letting them rotate while the arm is off the ground. It is an advanced exercise but is an example of how you can take a simple exercise and really turn up the intensity.

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    Re: Dryland Training For Swimmers

    Quote Originally Posted by pendaluft View Post
    Its very very hard to do!
    Try a 1-point plank on the physioball some time!

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    Re: Dryland Training For Swimmers

    Planks are probably my most favorite exercise to do to strengthen the core. I haven't tried the 3 point plank, but regular planks and side planks are a part of my usual exercise routine.
    I also enjoy walk-outs on the stability ball

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    Re: Dryland Training For Swimmers

    Quote Originally Posted by guppy View Post
    Try a 1-point plank on the physioball some time!
    I think I got the terminology wrong. I mean a three point plank on the ball, i.e. only one hand on the ground.

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    Re: Dryland Training For Swimmers

    four months ago, I began dryland workouts to help my swimming. I had never used weights or dryland to any extent in my Masters training. I read some on-line material but settled for the P90X workouts. I don't use real heavy weights to build bulk, but find these workouts excellent for all around core, flexibility and strength improvement. We will see in Arizona this spring if it makes much difference in the pool. I am extremely happy with the results and sense of overall fitness. This is especially helpful because I can do all this in my home. I am only able to swim three to four times per week. I needed something more.

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