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Thread: Wetsuit vs Non-Wetsuit Awards

  1. #1
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    Wetsuit vs Non-Wetsuit Awards

    I organized a swim recently and we had non-wetsuit and wetsuit categories. I'm fine with accommodating wetsuits for open water swimming. However, the challenge comes up in the awards portion. Should wetsuit swimmers be entitled to the exact same type of awards as non-wetsuit swimmers? The problem this poses as an organizer is that suddenly you need to purchase twice the number of awards to accommodate a separate division (wetsuit), even though everyone's swimming the same race.

    What might be fair for next time (learning as I go) is to award the top 3 male/female non-wetsuit swimmers for each event, but just the #1 male and female in the wetsuit category for each event. They at least get acknowledged for their efforts.

    Curious if anyone else has thoughts on this.

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    Re: Wetsuit vs Non-Wetsuit Awards

    I think if you award for naked you have to award for suited if you offer it as a second category (well, you don't HAVE to do anything), and I can see how that would get unwieldy and/or more expensive.

    Does everyone start together? If so, it would not be uncommon to have a rule that says wetsuit wearers not eligible for awards. If that's the rule going in, then everyone knows. If you just do #1 for suits and 1-3 for nakeds, people that are 2-3 suits may wonder why they aren't getting awards. I know that also would be a rule going in, but people get weird at races about awards and such.

    Last race I did someone posted on active that they came in third in AG (out of 6 :^) , they had never heard of awards for first place only (as the athlete's guide clearly stated), and wanted the organizers to mail them an award.....

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    Very Active Member knelson's Avatar
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    Re: Wetsuit vs Non-Wetsuit Awards

    Quote Originally Posted by TobySwims View Post
    Should wetsuit swimmers be entitled to the exact same type of awards as non-wetsuit swimmers?
    I don't think it's absolutely necessary, but be certain to highlight this in the entry info if wetsuit swimmers won't be receiving the same awards. Everyone says they don't care about the awards--that is until they get shafted!

    What might be fair for next time (learning as I go) is to award the top 3 male/female non-wetsuit swimmers for each event, but just the #1 male and female in the wetsuit category for each event. They at least get acknowledged for their efforts.
    Seems reasonable to me.

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    Very Active Member orca1946's Avatar
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    Re: Wetsuit vs Non-Wetsuit Awards

    Maybe - medals for jammers & ribbons for wetsuits??

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    Re: Wetsuit vs Non-Wetsuit Awards

    You can do whatever you want, just make it very clear on the entry form. Google "Big Shoulder's" entry form. They make it clear that there will be multiple awards in age groups for naked 5K swimmers. All other races (2.5K, and wetsuits in 2.5K and 5K) will recognize the over-all winner only. No one can complain if it is all spelled out on the entry form!
    HTFU!

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    Very Active Member orca1946's Avatar
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    Re: Wetsuit vs Non-Wetsuit Awards

    WAIT !! The 2.5 k only has one award ??????? is that per age group ??

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    Very Active Member lapswimmr's Avatar
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    Wink Re: Wetsuit vs Non-Wetsuit Awards

    Yes the same. As it was said make it clear on the entry what awards there will be. It really has nothing to do with being fair wet suit or not, It is a fact that without a wetsuit it is harder to swim and a slower time may be had. That fact can be advertised on the entry or information about the event so spectators or media know and can give a nod of respect to the non wetsuited swimmers for there increased effort.

    Open water swimming needs to allow for wetsuits to thrive as a sport to bring as many people out there as possible.

    Open water swimming will be a major Olymipic event in time. probably with non wetsuit races.

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    Very Active Member orca1946's Avatar
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    Re: Wetsuit vs Non-Wetsuit Awards

    I read that now ? ! With the cost of entry , I just think they could have spent another $100 to get more awards.

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    Very Active Member chaos's Avatar
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    Re: Wetsuit vs Non-Wetsuit Awards

    Quote Originally Posted by lapswimmr View Post

    Open water swimming needs to allow for wetsuits to thrive as a sport to bring as many people out there as possible.

    Open water swimming will be a major Olymipic event in time. probably with non wetsuit races.
    The '08 olympic 10k was held in a rowing basin, and '12 will be in the serpentine. neither venue does justice to the phrase "open water". i doubt that any major network will have complete live coverage. the serp is a bit chilly, so i expect that wetsuits will be worn.

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    Very Active Member aquageek's Avatar
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    Re: Wetsuit vs Non-Wetsuit Awards

    Quote Originally Posted by chaos View Post
    The '08 olympic 10k was held in a rowing basin, and '12 will be in the serpentine. neither venue does justice to the phrase "open water".
    You got that right. It seems to me that to be open water it should present some of the things that make open water exciting. The Serpentine is a city park lake so the only obstacle I saw was a lot of ducks, and their poo.

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    Very Active Member Chris Stevenson's Avatar
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    Re: Wetsuit vs Non-Wetsuit Awards

    Quote Originally Posted by aquageek View Post
    the only obstacle I saw was a lot of ducks
    Don't disrespect the duck. We have a few with quite an uppity attitude in our university lake.

    And don't get me started on the Canadian geese. I wouldn't want to swim through them; they routinely chase people off the sidewalk. And there are several curious and unexplained muggings at night near the lake...

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    Re: Wetsuit vs Non-Wetsuit Awards

    Quote Originally Posted by TobySwims View Post
    Should wetsuit swimmers be entitled to the exact same type of awards as non-wetsuit swimmers? The problem this poses as an organizer is that suddenly you need to purchase twice the number of awards to accommodate a separate division (wetsuit), even though everyone's swimming the same race.
    IMO: same awards. Don't wetsuit wearers pay the same entry fee as the "naked" swimmers?

    But I don't feel strongly about it. I agree with the others, whatever you do advertise it on your race entry forms. (But I disagree that then people won't complain. Anyone can complain about anything.)

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    Active Member dadis's Avatar
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    Re: Wetsuit vs Non-Wetsuit Awards

    Maybe this is a new idea...

    The event is open to wetsuits and "naked", with one set of rewards. There is a catch. The wetsuits cannot be put on the swimmers body until after the starting gun. (no help allowed from non-participants)

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    Re: Wetsuit vs Non-Wetsuit Awards

    Quote Originally Posted by orca1946 View Post
    Maybe - medals for jammers & ribbons for wetsuits??
    For most of the NYC swim series, jammers aren't allowed:

    For the Swim Series: When the water temperature is 68F (20C) or higher, only swimmers wearing traditional-style swim suits will be eligible for awards. A traditional-style swim suit is one that is made of a porous material, is sleeveless, and is legless. Women may wear suits that come up to their necks, with the zipper up the back. Men may not wear jammers (since they are not legless) or suits that cover their torsos. Any suit that extends to the thighs or shoulders, reduces drag in the water, increases buoyancy, or improves heat-retention is considered non-traditional. Suits in the non-traditional category (which means they affect award eligibility) include jammers of any type; Speedo LZR Racer, Speedo Aquablade, Speedo FS II, Speedo Fastskin, TYR Aqua Shift, TYR Aquapel, TYR Fusion2, Nike Liftsuit, blue seventy zeropoint3, and suits with similar materials. When the water temperature is below 68F, all swimmers will be eligible for awards, regardless of whether they wear a traditional swim suit or wetsuit.
    http://www.nycswim.org/About/FAQ.aspx#6
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    Re: Wetsuit vs Non-Wetsuit Awards

    Quote Originally Posted by aztimm View Post
    For most of the NYC swim series, jammers aren't allowed:



    http://www.nycswim.org/About/FAQ.aspx#6

    I don't really care for OW swimming that much, but those NYC OW rules for swim suits are just ridiculous!!
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    Very Active Member chaos's Avatar
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    Re: Wetsuit vs Non-Wetsuit Awards

    Quote Originally Posted by jaadams1 View Post
    I don't really care for OW swimming that much, but those NYC OW rules for swim suits are just ridiculous!!
    many of the people who work the events are volunteers. it would be unreasonable to have everyone familiar with the different models of tech suits (yes they were also produced as jammers), but easy enough to differentiate between a brief and a jammer. blame it on the suit manufacturers not the event organizers who are trying to maintain a (sea) level playing field.

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    Very Active Member thewookiee's Avatar
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    Re: Wetsuit vs Non-Wetsuit Awards

    Quote Originally Posted by chaos View Post
    many of the people who work the events are volunteers. it would be unreasonable to have everyone familiar with the different models of tech suits (yes they were also produced as jammers), but easy enough to differentiate between a brief and a jammer. blame it on the suit manufacturers not the event organizers who are trying to maintain a (sea) level playing field.
    If they followed the fina guidelines where jammers had to have the fina 2010 logo on it, then it wouldn't be hard to know which suits weren't illegal jammers.

    I agree with James, not allowing jammers for men is a silly rule

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    Very Active Member chaos's Avatar
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    Re: Wetsuit vs Non-Wetsuit Awards

    Quote Originally Posted by thewookiee View Post
    If they followed the fina guidelines where jammers had to have the fina 2010 logo on it, then it wouldn't be hard to know which suits weren't illegal jammers.
    there is a higher standard than FINA

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    Very Active Member thewookiee's Avatar
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    Re: Wetsuit vs Non-Wetsuit Awards

    Quote Originally Posted by chaos View Post
    there is a higher standard than FINA
    yea,yea, yea, that sounds like an open water snob. There is nothing wrong with letting guys wear jammers in pool or open water races dave.

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    Very Active Member chaos's Avatar
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    Re: Wetsuit vs Non-Wetsuit Awards

    Quote Originally Posted by thewookiee View Post
    yea,yea, yea, that sounds like an open water snob. There is nothing wrong with letting guys wear jammers in pool or open water races dave.
    for your own events, you are welcome to establish any rules you like. we allow jammers for 8 bridges so your snobbery charge is off target (in this instance)... but with only a few swimmers for each stage, its easy to keep tech suits out.

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