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Thread: Meet Manager - Split Requests & Records

  1. #1
    Very Active Member jroddin's Avatar
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    Meet Manager - Split Requests & Records

    If a swimmer breaks a USMS record from a split request (either a relay lead-off or an initial distance split), is there an easy way to have Meet Manager catch the record and generate the USMS record application form?

    Thus far the only workaround I know of is this:
    1) manually add the split event as a new event in the meet (for instance add another 50 back to the meet to capture a 200 medley relay lead-off)
    2) manually add the swimmer(s) and time(s) to this new event
    3) run the Report to look for records and print the record application form if applicable

    Normally I don't process split requests until after the meet (as in days after the meet). When the meet is over I have the Hytek operator turn over the MM backup to me along with the paper split requests forms and then I process them in the coming days. Which means I don't "catch" these records until the meet is over and the referee is no longer easily accessible to sign the documentation. For a large meet, it would be quite a hold up to expect the Hytek operator to process all of these split requests before shutting the meet down. If the swimmers included a frosty beverage along with the split request form, then perhaps this inconvenience can be overlooked

    Anyway, I'd like to know if there is a more direct way in MM to catch these potential records at the meet itself.

    Thanks,
    Jeff

  2. #2
    Moderator Rob Copeland's Avatar
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    Re: Meet Manager - Split Requests & Records

    Jeff,

    If you set up a new event, then manually type in the time, how do you tie the swim to "the timing system printout" as required in 105.3.8? And how do you get the timing system printout, do you also collect all printouts from the timing console?

    To the best of my knowledge, MM cannot automatically identify split records. But you may want to ask Tom Taylor when you see him next month.

  3. #3
    Very Active Member jroddin's Avatar
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    Re: Meet Manager - Split Requests & Records

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Copeland View Post
    Jeff,

    If you set up a new event, then manually type in the time, how do you tie the swim to "the timing system printout" as required in 105.3.8? And how do you get the timing system printout, do you also collect all printouts from the timing console?

    To the best of my knowledge, MM cannot automatically identify split records. But you may want to ask Tom Taylor when you see him next month.
    My workaround would indeed create a record application that has incorrect event number, heat, lane, etc. But in my opinion making those 'redlines' on the form would be easier than filling out the entire form by hand. So, I would print out the record application, make edits to heat, lane, etc. and then attach printouts from the actual swim. I was just asking in case there was a more automated way of doing this.

    I emailed Tom today and he confirmed MM does not check splits for records. Perhaps I should put it on my Christmas list

    And this is one more reason why we should be able to charge extra for split requests

    Jeff

  4. #4
    sǝssɐןb ɹǝʇʇǝq ʇǝb That Guy's Avatar
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    Re: Meet Manager - Split Requests & Records

    Quote Originally Posted by jroddin View Post
    And this is one more reason why we should be able to charge extra for split requests
    I would not even blink at a nominal charge of, say, $3 to $5 per split request. In other words, a charge in line with the cost per event at a given meet.

    (I have only ever submitted split requests in distance free events, not for relay leadoffs or shorter individual events. Yet. )

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    Very Active Member Chris Stevenson's Avatar
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    Re: Meet Manager - Split Requests & Records

    Quote Originally Posted by That Guy View Post
    I would not even blink at a nominal charge of, say, $3 to $5 per split request. In other words, a charge in line with the cost per event at a given meet.
    This was done at a zone championship meet once, as I'm sure Jeff remembers. With all the outrage it caused you would have thought we were proposing allowing tech suits or something.

  6. #6
    sǝssɐןb ɹǝʇʇǝq ʇǝb That Guy's Avatar
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    Re: Meet Manager - Split Requests & Records

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stevenson View Post
    This was done at a zone championship meet once, as I'm sure Jeff remembers. With all the outrage it caused you would have thought we were proposing allowing tech suits or something.
    Similarly, I do not blink at small fees for heat sheets or concessions. At some meets they are free, but if you want to charge me $2 for a heat sheet then you won't hear boo from me about it.

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    Very Active Member jim thornton's Avatar
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    Re: Meet Manager - Split Requests & Records

    Quote Originally Posted by That Guy View Post
    Similarly, I do not blink at small fees for heat sheets or concessions. At some meets they are free, but if you want to charge me $2 for a heat sheet then you won't hear boo from me about it.
    You won't hear boo from me either. What you will hear from me is, "Do you mind if I look at your heat sheet?"

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    Re: Meet Manager - Split Requests & Records

    Quote Originally Posted by jim thornton View Post
    You won't hear boo from me either. What you will hear from me is, "Do you mind if I look at your heat sheet?"
    Of course you can look at my heat sheet. It will only cost you $2.

  9. #9
    Age Grouper in Training jaadams1's Avatar
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    Re: Meet Manager - Split Requests & Records

    Quote Originally Posted by jim thornton View Post
    You won't hear boo from me either. What you will hear from me is, "Do you mind if I look at your heat sheet?"
    Jim, I'm in the same boat as you. I will wait till one is posted on the wall in most cases. I love it when the meet director emails out the heat sheet to all online entry folks a few days ahead of time...then I print it out at work using their paper.
    "Don't be upset by the results you didn't get with the work you didn't do." - K.A. Benthin

    Inland NW Top Ten & Records Chair, and Web-Dude
    www.inlandnwmasters.org

  10. #10
    USMS Membership Director Jayhawk's Avatar
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    Re: Meet Manager - Split Requests & Records

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Copeland View Post
    And how do you get the timing system printout, do you also collect all printouts from the timing console?
    When I ran meets I always gathered ALL of the timing system printouts and took them home with me. I usually needed to refer to them at least once or twice after a meet. I then saved them, along with the handwritten timer sheets, the meet entry forms, etc., in a box in the basement.

    I started gathering and saving the console printouts after learning (the hard way) that the data in the timing console gets overwritten the next time the console is used for a meet.

    Anna Lea

  11. #11
    Moderator Rob Copeland's Avatar
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    Re: Meet Manager - Split Requests & Records

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayhawk View Post
    I started gathering and saving the console printouts after learning (the hard way) that the data in the timing console gets overwritten the next time the console is used for a meet.

    Anna Lea
    Which timing system overwrites meet data? I do automated timing using Colorado 5 and 6 and with Omega Ares. And with all 3 systems I’m able to go back to previous meets and pull data. Generally, at the direction of the referee, I only print from the timing console if there are problems. I’ll go back and print stored data if it is needed for records etc. The exception is if I’m running a USA Swimming state meet or higher, where the Admin Ref wants to review the console reports and the MM reports.
    Last edited by Rob Copeland; March 21st, 2012 at 03:40 PM.

  12. #12
    USMS Membership Director Jayhawk's Avatar
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    Re: Meet Manager - Split Requests & Records

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Copeland View Post
    Which timing system overwrites meet data? I do automated timing using Colorado 5 and 6 and with Omega Ares. And with all 3 systems Iím able to go back to previous meets and pull data. Generally, at the direction of the referee, I only print from the timing console if there are problems. Iíll go back and print stored data if it is needed for records etc. The exception is if Iím running a USA Swimming state meet or higher, where the Admin Ref wants to review the console reports and the MM reports.
    I don't know. This was years ago at a couple of local high schools. All I remember is that I needed some times from a certain heat, but the high school had already held another meet and told me that the times had been overwritten in the console.

  13. #13
    Very Active Member jroddin's Avatar
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    Re: Meet Manager - Split Requests & Records

    Regarding Split Requests:

    One way to get them into the Event Rankings Database (ERDB) is to of course use the new web tools available to TTRs. And they are very easy to use indeed.

    But technically, split requests are supposed to be included in the official results of a meet. And if you add them per the step above, they are not part of the official meet results (but they are tied to the meet in the ERDB). This practice of including split requests with the official meet results isn't even common practice at Nationals.

    If a meet director wants to include split requests in their meet results, the easiest way I know of is to create the manual events like I described earlier in this thread (i.e. create another 50 Backstroke event in the meet for a 200 Medley Relay lead-off split request). This is what our expert Meet Director for Colonies Zone SCY Champs does each year. Then when you create meet results these splits are included in the results and also are included in an export file used to upload to the Rankings Database.

    So it's a trade-off: add the split times using the web-tools (but they don't appear in the official meet results) or add the times by creating extra events in MM (but this means manually entering data which includes more chances for errors).

    Finally, if these extra events are added to the MM database, the operator has the choice of calling them a "regular" event, a "time trial" event or a "swim-off" event. It's too bad Hytek doesn't offer a fourth option called "split request." Anyway, I've often seen "time trial" used for these splits even though they are not actually time trials. But at least it clarifies the swim was not part of the regular event. Does the USMS Rules or Records & Tabulation Committee have a preference for how we should list these in the results (regular vs time trial)?

    Jeff

  14. #14
    Moderator Rob Copeland's Avatar
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    Re: Meet Manager - Split Requests & Records

    Quote Originally Posted by jroddin View Post
    It's too bad Hytek doesn't offer a fourth option called "split request."
    Can you add this to your Christmas list?

  15. #15
    Very Calm Member jim clemmons's Avatar
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    Re: Meet Manager - Split Requests & Records

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stevenson View Post
    This was done at a zone championship meet once, as I'm sure Jeff remembers. With all the outrage it caused you would have thought we were proposing allowing tech suits or something.
    Sounds like you said it first, Chris..."tech suits are coming back."

    Jim

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    Very Active Member Glenn's Avatar
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    Re: Meet Manager - Split Requests & Records

    Thanks Jim, can't wait to spread the word!!!

  17. #17
    sǝssɐןb ɹǝʇʇǝq ʇǝb That Guy's Avatar
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    Re: Meet Manager - Split Requests & Records

    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn View Post
    Thanks Jim, can't wait to spread the word!!!
    One week from today, tell every swimmer you know!

  18. #18
    Very Calm Member jim clemmons's Avatar
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    Re: Meet Manager - Split Requests & Records

    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn View Post
    Thanks Jim, can't wait to spread the word!!!
    Thank Chris... he started it.
    Jim

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