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Thread: M P G on your vehicles ???

  1. #41
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    Re: M P G on your vehicles ???

    Quote Originally Posted by fritznh View Post
    After looking in the rule book, direct injection for the top classes is not allowed. But I don't think that matters, nitromethane will produce more power than alcohol because of the chemistry, not the mechanical cooling effect of vaporization in the combustion chamber. The methanol burners already run a lot higher compression than the nitromethane cars, and the fact remains that normally aspirated nitromethane dragsters still run as fast or faster than the supercharged alcohol dragsters. When you put a supercharger on a nitromethane car, its a whole 'nother animal.
    I agree the supercharged alcohol dragsters are much less powerful than the nitromethane cocktail supercharged dragsters. But what I am referring to is a direct-injection, methanol fueled, turbocharged 700cu inch application running upwards of 60 psi boost. Very feasable, and more powerful than nitro


    Methanol has the fastest burn rate and much higher latent heat of vaporization. Nitromethane is limited due it's inconsitancy and, despite popular belief, very slow flame kernel burn rates. Yes, nitro burns very slow at all cyl pressures, so slow that it still burns long after exhaust valve opens as you can see by the yellow flames blasting out the runners. Nitromethane runs stoichiometric at close to 1 to 1 so top fuelers are running on verge of hydrolock. But an entire run, including burnout, there will be less than 1200 ignition events so net fuel volume is not an issue. Dont get me wrong, I full heartedly believe the nitro burners are the kings of drag racing, the most spectacular to watch of any racing for that matter, however - it's old technology (except for ecu). Direct Injection methanol ICE for a top fuel has much more potential than nitro. Probably wont be implemented either because 8000+ HP is rarely fully harnessed, and at the end of the day the yellow flames and nitro fumes are more addictive than HP$
    Last edited by __steve__; April 4th, 2012 at 08:43 AM.

  2. #42
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    Re: M P G on your vehicles ???

    Quote Originally Posted by __steve__ View Post
    I full heartedly believe the nitro burners are the kings of drag racing, the most spectacular to watch of any racing for that matter
    Said like a sprinter....

    I completely agree with this statement. Its one of those things everyone should experience at least once, from a range of about 30 feet at the 60' line When I was a kid I thought jet cars were loud.... now I plan all my vegas trips around when the nitro cars are in town.

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    Very Active Member scyfreestyler's Avatar
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    Re: M P G on your vehicles ???

    Quote Originally Posted by fmracing View Post
    Its one of those things everyone should experience at least once, from a range of about 30 feet at the 60' line
    I've done that, and it is quite incredible and impressive. Although, I think the most impressive internal combustion engine racing I've ever seen was at the Reno Air Races, Unlimited Class. A vulgar display of power.
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    Re: M P G on your vehicles ???

    Quote Originally Posted by __steve__ View Post
    I agree the supercharged alcohol dragsters are much less powerful than the nitromethane cocktail supercharged dragsters. But what I am referring to is a direct-injection, methanol fueled, turbocharged 700cu inch application running upwards of 60 psi boost. Very feasable, and more powerful than nitro


    ... nitro fumes are more addictive than HP$
    I'd still maintain that if you use the same technology for both, the nitromethane fuel will make more power than methanol. In top alcohol dragster, the nitromethane cars are not supercharged, they are naturally aspirated. CH3NO2 carries its own oxygen so you can burn more of it, that is just the way the chemistry is. Direct injection would help both, I'd think, but I would still put my money on the nitromethane fueled engine when it came down to making ultimate power. Just betting on the chemistry, that's all .

    They aren't even allowed to use electronic fuel injection, only mechanical. The NHRA deliberately keeps them in the stone age. Personally I find it frustrating, though it is exceedingly loud and fast. It is something to be experienced at least once in your life -- having a fuel car go by you at full song, literally shaking the ground on which you're standing. The air races are pretty cool, though I've never been. They last for a lot longer, from what I can see.

    There is some innovation in pro-mod -- there is one turbocharged methanol car which makes a ton of power, but they were struggling all year with building boost on the starting line and getting the clutch to work properly with their setup. Every other promod team is terrified that one day they will get it figured out, because they have 10 mph (at around 265 or so) on everybody else in the field. If they get it dialed in properly, they will run away from everyone. It is a 528 inch hemi with twin turbochargers (some 101mm monsters that eat small children and flocks of geese) running methanol, and they are running against the 528 inch supercharged hemi methanol engines.

    Funny, I swim sprint freestyle too, and there are some real similarities. The game is getting the most average power to the water (or to the pavement) over the course of the race. And don't make any mistakes.

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    Re: M P G on your vehicles ???

    Few interesting facts about top fuel racing:

    A single 500cu in dragster engine makes more power than the first 8 rows at Daytona

    At full throttle a top fuel funny car's fuel consumption is greater than a fully loaded 747 at take-off!

    Spark plug electrodes are totally consumed during a pass. After 1/2 way or just under 2 seconds, the engine is dieseling from compression-plus the glow of exhaust valves at 1400 degrees F. The engine can only be shut down by cutting off its fuel.


    MPG of a nitro funny car is ...
    0.035 mpg, just under 30 gallons per mile
    Last edited by __steve__; April 5th, 2012 at 09:21 AM.

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    Very Active Member orca1946's Avatar
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    Re: M P G on your vehicles ???

    I just ordered 11 tickets to NHRA when it comes to Joliet/chicago!
    I'm bringing some friends that have never seen drags!

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    Very Active Member EJB190's Avatar
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    Re: M P G on your vehicles ???

    I just read an article in IEEE (electrical engineering magazine) about how Mercedes just introduced a diesel-hybrid in Europe. It's an E-Class with a 6 cylinder diesel-hybrid that achieves 46mpg. That really doesn't sound that great to me considering the Passat TDI gets 45-50mpg highway and is relatively the same size car. That said, hybrids typically don't get fantastic highway mileage, the city driving is where the big improvement is. The hybrid system (aka battery) must add considerable weight to an already heavy car as well.

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    Re: M P G on your vehicles ???

    Good idea to sell more cars to "green " drivers.

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    Re: M P G on your vehicles ???

    My Mustang GT gets better gas mileage when I use gas with no Ethanol in it. Ethanol gas usually = about 270 miles per tank for about 19 MPG, No Ethanol gas usually = about 310-315 per tank for about 22+ MPG. That's in town driving with my lead foot. Interstate driving (humanly) I can get between 25-30 MPG
    "Your body will go places your mind never thought it would go, as long as you are mentally tough enough to push it, drag it or carry it there." Tracy A. Burkholder

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    Very Active Member EJB190's Avatar
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    Re: M P G on your vehicles ???

    Quote Originally Posted by orca1946 View Post
    Good idea to sell more cars to "green " drivers.
    My roommate calls the Prius the Pious.

    I like people who buy the Chevy Volt. What a waste of money. You're paying $50,000 for a $20,000 car. $30,000 is a lot of money that could be spent on gas if you're really trying to save money. Let's remember that electricity isn't all that cheap either and is only getting more expensive.

    I'm not a conspiracy theorist but I strongly believe the whole "green movement" is a joke. On a business and political level it just has to do with money and getting elected. That's what is really driving it.

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    Re: M P G on your vehicles ???

    Until theres an affordable green/hybrid car that runs at least 12's in the 1/4, I won't have or consider a green/hybrid car Its like a benchmark for me. I have a hard time coping with cars that accelerate like a bicycle, let alone every day.
    Last edited by fmracing; April 10th, 2012 at 09:40 AM.

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    Re: M P G on your vehicles ???

    What a lot of "green" supporters don't realize, is that in order to make all of the elctricity needed to run all of the "green" cars, it will require more coal and fuel burning plants until something suitable can be industrialized at the level we will need to support them.
    "Your body will go places your mind never thought it would go, as long as you are mentally tough enough to push it, drag it or carry it there." Tracy A. Burkholder

    "If it is to be......it is up to me!" Author unknown.... got it off the wall at Westminster School in Atlanta.



    Breaststroke - For the swimmer who finds the other strokes too easy!!!!!!

  13. #53
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    Re: M P G on your vehicles ???

    The "greenies" don't want to hear where the "cheap" elec. comes from. The facts would burst the bubble [ see Dennis Miller] they are trying to make out of "free" elec. cars

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    Re: M P G on your vehicles ???

    Thinking about taking my kids to see top fuel in Charlotte some time.

    Here's a perspective:
    You are driving the average $140,000 Lingenfelter twin-turbo Corvette Z06. More than a mile up the road, a Top Fuel dragster is staged and ready to launch down a measured quarter-mile as you pass. You have the advantage of a flying start. You run the Vette up through the gears and blast across the starting line and past the dragster at an honest 200 mph. The "tree" goes green for both of you at that moment. The dragster launches and starts after you. You keep your foot down, but you hear a brutal whine that sears your eardrums, and within three seconds, the dragster catches you and beats you to the finish line, a quarter-mile from where you just passed him. From a standing start, the dragster spotted you 200 mph and not only caught you but nearly blasted you off the road when he passed you within a mere 1320 feet.

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    Very Active Member orca1946's Avatar
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    Re: M P G on your vehicles ???

    And since 2 years ago, after some deadly accidents, NITRO cars now run only 1,000 feet and are doing the times & speed they used to run @ the 1/4 mile!!!!!!

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    Re: M P G on your vehicles ???

    The accident was Scott Kalitta getting killed at Englishtown. I was in the booth behind the starting line for the event and was watching the race where he was killed. He was most likely knocked out when the engine exploded near the finish line and he went off the end of the track at about three hundred miles an hour. The sand trap will stop a car that is trying to stop, but not a car that hasn't slowed appreciably.

    So when he hit the sand trap at about 250 or so, the car got launched into the air after hitting a cement pole that holds the ballistic netting, then bounced off the top of a construction crane well beyond the sand trap (the impact of which ignited the propane fuel tank on the top of the crane on its way by), finally coming to rest fairly deep in the woods nearly half a mile beyond the end of the sand trap. They shut the track down and canceled the remaining events as they cleared everything away, blacking out the video coverage as they tried to figure out what went wrong.

    My understanding is that there was sort of a perfect storm of things that happened, but no NHRA officials have said much about it. We asked the next time we saw the safety crew that we were friendly with, and they told us that they really couldn't say much. If you dig through the rule book, you can get an idea -- you've now got to have a metal shell (1/4 inch thickness!) around the back and sides of the drivers head and the parachute cables cannot be routed anywhere near anything that could cut them.

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    Very Active Member EJB190's Avatar
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    Re: M P G on your vehicles ???

    Quote Originally Posted by tjburk View Post
    What a lot of "green" supporters don't realize, is that in order to make all of the elctricity needed to run all of the "green" cars, it will require more coal and fuel burning plants until something suitable can be industrialized at the level we will need to support them.
    I think greenies are incredibly naive. They don't seem to look at the whole picture. If they just kept driving their old Subaru Outback or Honda Civic, rather than buying a new Prius, they would have done the world a bigger favor. Yes, they wouldn't get the same gas mileage, but they'd save a lot of energy in the production cost of the car.

    America is already at an energy deficit. If the economy were to bounce back overnight and businesses were operating at full capacity, there would not be enough energy produced. Obama wants to shut down all the fossil fuel and nuclear plants when really that's the only thing that's powering our country. Wind power and solar power make up less than 3% of our power generation.

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    Re: M P G on your vehicles ???

    Quote Originally Posted by EJB190 View Post
    I think greenies are incredibly naive. They don't seem to look at the whole picture. If they just kept driving their old Subaru Outback or Honda Civic, rather than buying a new Prius, they would have done the world a bigger favor. Yes, they wouldn't get the same gas mileage, but they'd save a lot of energy in the production cost of the car.
    Something to consider: one of the biggest obstacles in the move towards more efficient vehicles has been consumer buy in. If consumers don't gravitate towards hybrid/electric cars, what reason would manufacturers have to continue producing them? Many of the hybrid drivers I know are well aware of the fact that, in the short term, buying a hybrid is not economically beneficial and only becomes environmentally beneficial over very long periods of time. However, they view their purchase as important in that they are doing their part to help move the market towards more environmentally friendly products. Although I don't drive a hybrid/electric (and never will until there are serious performance models), I can understand this sort of thinking, and I don't think it is entirely fair to portray such a perspective as ignorant of the big picture.

  19. #59
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    Re: M P G on your vehicles ???

    I have a friend that is an EMS & he is at the Joliet drag track all the time. Some drivers had brought this shield up before ,but the added weight of it held them back. that is a shame.

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    Re: M P G on your vehicles ???

    Quote Originally Posted by thrasher View Post
    Something to consider: one of the biggest obstacles in the move towards more efficient vehicles has been consumer buy in. If consumers don't gravitate towards hybrid/electric cars, what reason would manufacturers have to continue producing them?
    Absolutely correct.

    And what is available (domestically) as a product basically is whatever can be produced the cheapest, yet be accepted by the consumer by whatever means possible, whether legislative or promotional advertising, or from the push of decreasing #'s of other options. I wonder if cafe standard discrimination/favoritism is implemented

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