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Thread: Colonies Zone SCY Championships - Fairfax VA

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    Colonies Zone SCY Championships - Fairfax VA

    Online entries for the Colonies Zone SCY Championships opened today. The meet will be April 19-21, 2013 at George Mason University in Fairfax, Virginia.

    Entry Form, Timeline and Team Roster are available at:
    http://www.patriotmasters.org/ColoniesZone2013.htm
    Patriot Masters Swim Team (GMUP)
    http://www.patriotmasters.org/

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    Age Grouper in Training jaadams1's Avatar
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    Re: Colonies Zone SCY Championships - Fairfax VA

    I just looked at the meet info for kicks...today is Feb. 2nd, just opened registration 2 days ago, and already the distance events are filled up!! INSANE!!! 48 1650s and 80 1000s already!
    I'm glad I don't live in an area of the country that has that much demand to get a mile swim done. But it sucks for those folks over there who really want to get a swim in and now can't!
    "Don't be upset by the results you didn't get with the work you didn't do." - K.A. Benthin

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    sprint diva The Fortress's Avatar
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    Re: Colonies Zone SCY Championships - Fairfax VA

    Quote Originally Posted by jaadams1 View Post
    I just looked at the meet info for kicks...today is Feb. 2nd, just opened registration 2 days ago, and already the distance events are filled up!! INSANE!!! 48 1650s and 80 1000s already!
    I'm glad I don't live in an area of the country that has that much demand to get a mile swim done. But it sucks for those folks over there who really want to get a swim in and now can't!
    It's all the triathletes, especially Team Z, that register right away and take all the spots from masters swimmers. And they only swim Friday and skip the rest of the meet.

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    Age Grouper in Training jaadams1's Avatar
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    Re: Colonies Zone SCY Championships - Fairfax VA

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fortress View Post
    It's all the triathletes, especially Team Z, that register right away and take all the spots from masters swimmers. And they only swim Friday and skip the rest of the meet.
    I noticed an unusually large quantity of folks in the meet distance events, and the numbers just didn't correspond with the other normal events at all. I figured it was a bunch of "one hit wonders".
    "Don't be upset by the results you didn't get with the work you didn't do." - K.A. Benthin

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    Re: Colonies Zone SCY Championships - Fairfax VA

    I swim out of the Niagara LSMC with the BUMS but live in Savannah. I have noticed some of the meets I go to down here charge a meet fee only, no event fees, which being from up north I was not used to that at all. But the Colony Zone SCY event organizers might want to look at this in the future. Right now it costs $25 to swim Friday nite distance day but charge a meet fee of $45 and they might think twice before they sign up and if they do the event will at least get a little more revenue out of them. I was planning on attending this meet (and swimming 3 days) on my way up to NY to prep my sailboat for the summer but without the 1650/1000 free being available I'll be skipping this one. Now its an Austin, TX meet in April (and do the annual family trip early) or the Nat's in May (which interferes with sailing). To me it looks like someone could organize a distance only event in this area and make some money for a club.

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    Very Active Member Kevin in MD's Avatar
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    Re: Colonies Zone SCY Championships - Fairfax VA

    I'm all for expanding the sport, and getting triathletes involved is part of that.

    But yes as far as I can tell, it sold out in an hour or two.

    In future years, hopefully they will figure out a way to open it up for people with some sort of qualifying swims. Maybe if you have a 500 or longer usms swim in the last year you get to signup in week 1, everyone else is week 2.

    This is how they do it for the Boston Marathon (or a system like it) and might work here, particularly since this is the colonies zone championships. On one hand allowing dedicated masters swimmers to sign up and also allowing some new swimmers to get in as well.

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    Very Active Member jroddin's Avatar
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    Re: Colonies Zone SCY Championships - Fairfax VA

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin in MD View Post
    I'm all for expanding the sport, and getting triathletes involved is part of that.

    But yes as far as I can tell, it sold out in an hour or two.

    In future years, hopefully they will figure out a way to open it up for people with some sort of qualifying swims. Maybe if you have a 500 or longer usms swim in the last year you get to signup in week 1, everyone else is week 2.

    This is how they do it for the Boston Marathon (or a system like it) and might work here, particularly since this is the colonies zone championships. On one hand allowing dedicated masters swimmers to sign up and also allowing some new swimmers to get in as well.
    For Nationals that is sort of what we do to help with the meet timeline (qual times). That would certainly add an administrative layer of work to a Zone meet to go that route, though. I can see why it is much more straightforward to simply limit the number of entries per event if you know how many heats you can accommodate - it cuts right to the chase and fills your meet just the way you want. And after all, picking a Qual time doesn't always work and could really bite you if you your timeline is a concern and you missed the mark with your cuts.

    Anyway, what is more fair in life than first come first served if the meet was announced to all in advance? It's not like the meet was announced only to one team. I am helping with a meet this year and we plan to enforce an entry cap (if we get to that limit). Hopefully we settle out just below the cap and it isn't an issue. We set the number lower than last year, but above just about every other year so it is anybody's guess what will happen. If we should reach that limit, I'm sure there will be some unhappy swimmers who want to swim but what can you do? It's sort of the same thing at Nationals when somebody realizes the day after the entry deadline that they forgot to enter. Neither method (first come first served, entry deadline) discriminates against anybody.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fortress View Post
    It's all the triathletes, especially Team Z, that register right away and take all the spots from masters swimmers.
    I just checked and they all are in fact registered USMS swimmers.

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    Very Active Member Chris Stevenson's Avatar
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    Re: Colonies Zone SCY Championships - Fairfax VA

    Quote Originally Posted by jcoth49 View Post
    Right now it costs $25 to swim Friday nite distance day but charge a meet fee of $45 and they might think twice before they sign up and if they do the event will at least get a little more revenue out of them.
    Do you mean charge a meet fee of $45 for everybody, or charge extra to swim the 1650/1000? The latter makes more sense to me than the former.

    It's a thought, though it isn't clear to me that the triathlon crowd, who drop $500 to enter some events, will be deterred by a $20 increase.

    You can have a lottery (like the Chesapeake Bay Swim) rather than making it first-come, first-serve. It isn't clear to me if the people chosen to swim the 1650 would be considered lottery winners or losers (again like the Bay Swim). Call the Friday events the "Hunger Games" part of the meet.

    (Actually the lottery thing was a real suggestion not a joke, though I'll allow it is hard to tell the difference.)

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    Re: Colonies Zone SCY Championships - Fairfax VA

    Team Z has been doing that for the last several years. I guess that I won't be coming down this year since one of my 3 yards events is already filled.
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    Re: Colonies Zone SCY Championships - Fairfax VA

    Quote Originally Posted by jroddin View Post
    I just checked and they all are in fact registered USMS swimmers.
    Well, naturally, or they couldn't swim in this meet or other OW swims. But if you asked them if they were triathletes or masters swimmers, you know what the answer would be.

    It was first come, first serve. I think masters swimmers are just accustomed to waiting until the last minute to sign up. Conversely, since triathlons fill up quickly, triathletes are accustomed to rapid fire entries.

    I see no reason why Team Z couldn't host their own distance meet.

    I am signing up for the Albatross meet today!

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    Very Active Member Chris Stevenson's Avatar
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    Re: Colonies Zone SCY Championships - Fairfax VA

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fortress View Post
    I see no reason why Team Z couldn't host their own distance meet.
    ...other than the work involved, you mean?

    Sorry for being snarky; after some time in planning LCM zones -- I'm co-directing with my wife (the marriage is still surviving...for the time being) -- I've come to realize that it isn't like rolling off a log.

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    Re: Colonies Zone SCY Championships - Fairfax VA

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stevenson View Post
    ...other than the work involved, you mean?

    Sorry for being snarky; after some time in planning LCM zones -- I'm co-directing with my wife (the marriage is still surviving...for the time being) -- I've come to realize that it isn't like rolling off a log.
    I can't even imagine how much work is involved. And I thank you in advance for Zones. My daughter and I plan to attend.

    Should Team Z just let other people do all the work when they plan to swim in a pool? If they think these swims are of value for their triathletes, they could organize one once in a blue moon.

    Another problem seems to be that some athletes entered at crazy times like 1 hour 45 min for the 1000 ...

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    Very Active Member thewookiee's Avatar
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    Re: Colonies Zone SCY Championships - Fairfax VA

    Fort must have been planning on doing a split request for the 25 fly, using the rest of the 1000 as a warm-down. That would explain why she is upset that the event is already filled.

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    Re: Colonies Zone SCY Championships - Fairfax VA

    Quote Originally Posted by thewookiee View Post
    Fort must have been planning on doing a split request for the 25 fly, using the rest of the 1000 as a warm-down. That would explain why she is upset that the event is already filled.
    Nah, I was merely commenting at the outset that Team Z had filled the spots. Much as I love my split requests, I would never take a spot from a dedicated distance swimmer. Plus, I am not entirely sure I could actually complete that many consecutive lengths ... without being DQ'd for boredom anyway.

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    Very Active Member jroddin's Avatar
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    Re: Colonies Zone SCY Championships - Fairfax VA

    To host a distance meet you'd almost need a free pool rental or a deeply discounted pool rental fee to cover your costs. If you figure you can do 2 heats an hour for the 1650 and have only one course, that means 16 swimmers per hour. Your entry fee would have to be rather steep.

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    Re: Colonies Zone SCY Championships - Fairfax VA

    Quote Originally Posted by jroddin View Post
    To host a distance meet you'd almost need a free pool rental or a deeply discounted pool rental fee to cover your costs. If you figure you can do 2 heats an hour for the 1650 and have only one course, that means 16 swimmers per hour. Your entry fee would have to be rather steep.
    Thats what I meant with an earlier post in regards to a meet fee as opposed to a meet/event fee. This would help ensure that distance swimmers help cover the cost of the meet as opposed to the sat/sun meet entrants subsidizing people who only sign up for the more expensive distance day. We all know pool time is not cheap. Its important we keep these good meets financially viable.
    If I were a meet director I would be concerned of the impact, financially, if I were near a group that could potentially mob a distance day and not support the rest of the meet.

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    Very Active Member jroddin's Avatar
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    Re: Colonies Zone SCY Championships - Fairfax VA

    Quote Originally Posted by jcoth49 View Post
    Thats what I meant with an earlier post in regards to a meet fee as opposed to a meet/event fee. This would help ensure that distance swimmers help cover the cost of the meet as opposed to the sat/sun meet entrants subsidizing people who only sign up for the more expensive distance day. We all know pool time is not cheap. Its important we keep these good meets financially viable.
    If I were a meet director I would be concerned of the impact, financially, if I were near a group that could potentially mob a distance day and not support the rest of the meet.
    To your last sentence - here's an entirely different view if you look at it from a pure financial standpoint and don't care about fairness:
    Let's say all of these distance people don't swim any events on Sat-Sun and now all of the "regular masters swimmers" who are swimming on Sat and Sun are shut out on Friday. The meet host now gains surcharge fees from all of these Friday only swimmers. Basically the host collects the same amount of "splash" fees but gains surcharge fees because there are more individual swimmers. It doesn't address my comment about covering costs for a distance only meet day but addresses your last comment about the financial concern to a host (except it won't get any money from people like Mr. Patterson who would swim all three days but only if they can swim Friday).

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    Re: Colonies Zone SCY Championships - Fairfax VA

    After looking at the roster for Friday, another suggestion would to limit 10 entrants per team or something til 10 days before the meet. Friday will be looking like a local LMSC Meet than a Zone meet. Just saying! To the Friday roster, WTH! Well, maybe "give money" to a another meet or something!
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    Re: Colonies Zone SCY Championships - Fairfax VA

    I, too, am extremely disappointed that the distance events filled up in 24 hours when the meet is 2 1/2 months away. I know this happened once before. If we can't find a solution, I believe it will impact the meet as a whole. I always plan to swim the 1000 at Zones and the 1650 at nationals. Now i will have to go to another meet to get the 1000 in. Should I still go to zones, or should I substitute the other meet? Our team usually has a large contingent and lots of relays, but this could change.
    My proposal for a possible solution. Because it is a championship meet, everyone entering distance must submit the date and location of the USMS meet where they achieved their entry time. This would eliminate someone from doing their first USMS distance event at this meet. I think this would eliminate some of the entries. However, I'm curious as to what others think.

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    Very Active Member Kevin in MD's Avatar
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    Re: Colonies Zone SCY Championships - Fairfax VA

    Quote Originally Posted by Betsy View Post
    My proposal for a possible solution. Because it is a championship meet, everyone entering distance must submit the date and location of the USMS meet where they achieved their entry time. This would eliminate someone from doing their first USMS distance event at this meet. I think this would eliminate some of the entries. However, I'm curious as to what others think.
    That's not a bad idea.

    I'd say something similar, for the first two weeks you have to have a 500 or longer swim in the usms database in order to register for the friday events.

    After that, it's first come first served.

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