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Thread: Swimming against your competion

  1. #61
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    Re: Swimming against your competion

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fortress View Post
    This never happens outside nationals. And I'm not sure it happens at nationals either. I'd have to check the heat sheets.

    Not just as likely. Sure, there are stud swimmers in the older age groups. But on the whole, the talented older swimmers will not beat talented younger swimmers and, if seeded by time, they will end up in the outside lanes.

    Where is Jeff Commings? Isn't he going to come along to defend the seeding by time camp?
    Sorry I didn't contribute to this earlier! I was in Barcelona when this was all going on, and not thinking too much about what was going on in the USA, as my thoughts on August 7 were limited to feeling the sand on my toes on the beach. I'm always interested to read people's comments on this issue.

    I'm always for seeding by time. Possibly this is elitist to say it, but I would have had very little competition in my age group in Mission Viejo, and would have been very bummed to swim a couple of heats after Steve West (40-44) in the 100 breast, then watch Clark Burckle two heats later in the 25-29 age group. I would have wanted to race them both.

    Until my last days as a Masters swimmer, I will argue for seeding by time in every event. That's why I prefer swimming in local meets.
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  2. #62
    Very Active Member chowmi's Avatar
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    Re: Swimming against your competion

    Everyone has a different definition of "competition". I have very different definitions even for myself when I swim USMS and when I swim USA. Ironically, I started swimming USA because I liked having truly open competition, by time only and who cares about your age, professional status, number of kids, etc.

    For USMS I find age groups a complete turn-off. I find I have more in common with a young professional, or a professional working mom of any age. That is why I don't go to nationals anymore. I much prefer going to zone meets, AZ state meets, where everyone is seeded by time.

    It would be fun to have self-selected LEVELS in masters, like 1 (beginner) to 5 (elite). You race against your own level standards, not by age group. You have to meet minimum time standards to earn your level. No top ten rankings, that's something else. Level for elite is competitive enough i'd make an effort to get my elite patch. Sort of like Chris Stevenson's (sorry if I credit the wrong person!) tiered time grid (similar to motivational USA times).

  3. #63
    Very Active Member Chris Stevenson's Avatar
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    Re: Swimming against your competion

    Quote Originally Posted by chowmi View Post
    Sort of like Chris Stevenson's (sorry if I credit the wrong person!) tiered time grid (similar to motivational USA times).
    Those were Steve Stuart's standards. Here is the thread:

    http://forums.usms.org/showthread.ph...vational-Times

  4. #64

    Re: Swimming against your competion

    Quote Originally Posted by chowmi View Post
    Everyone has a different definition of "competition". I have very different definitions even for myself when I swim USMS and when I swim USA. Ironically, I started swimming USA because I liked having truly open competition, by time only and who cares about your age, professional status, number of kids, etc.

    For USMS I find age groups a complete turn-off. I find I have more in common with a young professional, or a professional working mom of any age. That is why I don't go to nationals anymore. I much prefer going to zone meets, AZ state meets, where everyone is seeded by time.

    It would be fun to have self-selected LEVELS in masters, like 1 (beginner) to 5 (elite). You race against your own level standards, not by age group. You have to meet minimum time standards to earn your level. No top ten rankings, that's something else. Level for elite is competitive enough i'd make an effort to get my elite patch. Sort of like Chris Stevenson's (sorry if I credit the wrong person!) tiered time grid (similar to motivational USA times).
    I agree with you that local meets should be by time as you are competing against people at your level that you know and possibly work out with. This is what makes a local meet enjoyable. However, the nationals is significantly different than a local meet. In a local meet
    you would rarely meet someone in your own age group who would be competitive with you if you are at a national level, at the nationals you do. So on an annual basis you want to prepare and compete against people who have the same age handicap as you.

  5. #65
    Very Active Member pwb's Avatar
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    Re: Swimming against your competion

    Quote Originally Posted by secondheart View Post
    ...you want to prepare and compete against people who have the same age handicap as you.
    But, it's oh so much fun to race against all ages and show that age is not a handicap!
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  6. #66
    aka Elaine-iaK & Aqua Dog ElaineK's Avatar
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    Re: Swimming against your competion

    Quote Originally Posted by pwb View Post
    But, it's oh so much fun to race against all ages and show that age is not a handicap!

    So, pwb, I hear Debaru paid up my debt at the Colorado meet, since you at Nationals. She says I don't need to pay her back, but I'll catch up with her one of these days!

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  7. #67
    Very Active Member pwb's Avatar
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    Re: Swimming against your competion

    Quote Originally Posted by ElaineK View Post
    So, pwb, I hear Debaru paid up my debt at the Colorado meet, since you at Nationals. She says I don't need to pay her back, but I'll catch up with her one of these days!

    Your debt is paid. Any chance you're trekking all the way out west to Santa Clara? I am planning on being present for the entirety of that meet (minus the crazy distance day that I'm not man enough to race anymore).
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  8. #68
    Very Active Member orca1946's Avatar
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    Re: Swimming against your competion

    I like seeing who is still swimming at a high level ,so brackets are good for me. I already know that someone 10 - 15 - 20 years younger can beat me.

  9. #69
    aka Elaine-iaK & Aqua Dog ElaineK's Avatar
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    Re: Swimming against your competion

    Quote Originally Posted by pwb View Post
    Your debt is paid. Any chance you're trekking all the way out west to Santa Clara? I am planning on being present for the entirety of that meet (minus the crazy distance day that I'm not man enough to race anymore).
    Nahhh, I still owe you a . Deb's beer doesn't count! I was just out in California for long course, so I'm saving my $ for Montreal and Maryland (with Quebec City in between). Are you going to join us at Worlds with 6,000+ of your closest friends? If so, I'll buy you a Moosehead!
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    ~ Believing in your dreams can be far more rewarding than living by your limitations ~Karla Peterson

  10. #70
    Very Active Member orca1946's Avatar
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    Re: Swimming against your competion

    A "Moosehead" beer????

  11. #71
    aka Elaine-iaK & Aqua Dog ElaineK's Avatar
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    Re: Swimming against your competion

    Quote Originally Posted by orca1946 View Post
    A "Moosehead" beer????
    http://ElaineiaKsTravels.wordpress.com

    ~ Believing in your dreams can be far more rewarding than living by your limitations ~Karla Peterson

  12. #72
    Very Active Member orca1946's Avatar
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    Re: Swimming against your competion

    2 1/2 weeks more on crutches till the doc looks at my right hip lash up of a claw - plates & 6 cables, to tell me I can walk on it & finally get back into the pool. I have been house bound since sept. 23 O M G it's boring!!! I need more than a beer.

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