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Thread: 500 Fly: worthy challenge or arrogant showboating?

  1. #61
    Distance Man tjrpatt's Avatar
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    Re: 500 Fly: worthy challenge or arrogant showboating?

    Quote Originally Posted by flystorms View Post
    I was on my last loop in Miami this weekend and saw one of the men doing the fly on the mile race! Amazing. He was almost done when I saw him.
    fly in open water is fun. Better for sighting. I will do it in an open water swim, not race though.
    Delware Valley Chair, Top Ten Recorder, DV LMSC Records
    http://forums.usms.org/blog.php?u=2837

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    Re: 500 Fly: worthy challenge or arrogant showboating?

    Hmmm, the conditioning from doing 500s Fly may have been useful. The kid who is the subject of this thread is Justin Wright who went from 5th to 1st in the last 50 to win the 200 Fly at Sr. Nationals this week.

  3. #63
    Very Active Member FindingMyInnerFish's Avatar
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    Re: 500 Fly: worthy challenge or arrogant showboating?

    I'm not experienced re hs swimming and the various rules/expectations. But if the idea is generally frowned upon, it seems more communication was needed between the swimmer and the coach before he went ahead with fly, at least touching base with the coach to say what he wanted to do. If he just wanted a 500 fly time in competition, maybe the coach could help him find opportunities for that. If he springs it on the coach without discussing it previously, that could be the root of the problem.

    In masters meets, I pretty much don't pay attention to what other swimmers are doing in my heats, except to note that all of them are faster than I am. If someone chose to do fly in a freestyle event I was swimming, I'd be fine with it, as, legally, freestyle means any stroke you want. I might envy their ability, but also appreciate it. A friend, btw, did fly in a 500 free (not my heat) at a masters meet and either won or was close. I was impressed! Can't see doing it myself, but main thought was "good for her!"

  4. #64
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    Re: 500 Fly: worthy challenge or arrogant showboating?

    As an interesting aside, John Batcheler from Colorado masters recently swam the English Channel all butterfly. It took him 14 hours

  5. #65
    Moderator Rob Copeland's Avatar
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    Re: 500 Fly: worthy challenge or arrogant showboating?

    Okay, I'd put John's swim under the worthy challenge category.

    When ratified this will be the 4th butterfly crossing and the first by an American.

    Congratulations.
    The opinions expressed in the above post are mine and not those of U.S. Masters Swimming.

  6. #66
    Very Active Member orca1946's Avatar
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    Re: 500 Fly: worthy challenge or arrogant showboating?

    I did 1,000 fly in the pool at the end of practice once!

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    Re: 500 Fly: worthy challenge or arrogant showboating?

    https://swimswam.com/watch-mabel-zav...oes-best-time/

    Showboating? Disrespectful? Did she clear this with her coach and the other competitors first?
    I hope she didn't damage the self esteem of any of the other swimmers

  8. #68
    Very Active Member __steve__'s Avatar
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    Re: 500 Fly: worthy challenge or arrogant showboating?

    Quote Originally Posted by orca1946 View Post
    I did 1,000 fly in the pool at the end of practice once!
    I remember that!

  9. #69
    Very Active Member Redbird Alum's Avatar
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    Re: 500 Fly: worthy challenge or arrogant showboating?

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl_S View Post
    https://swimswam.com/watch-mabel-zav...oes-best-time/

    Showboating? Disrespectful? Did she clear this with her coach and the other competitors first?
    I hope she didn't damage the self esteem of any of the other swimmers

    Well... I sure would not have wanted to be the swimmer immediately to her left on the last length... your arms and lungs burning and you come out of the turn to watch THAT happen right next to you! Gadzooks!


  10. #70
    Very Active Member orca1946's Avatar
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    Re: 500 Fly: worthy challenge or arrogant showboating?

    I encourage others to push fly to a slower and longer distance.

  11. #71
    Active Member Treebox's Avatar
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    Re: 500 Fly: worthy challenge or arrogant showboating?

    This is much ado about nothing. Not bragging OR showboating. Its competition. It was legal. Otherwise the competitor would have been disqualified. All of the points being made about playing fair or hurting another competitor's feelings are clutter and noise. Go play youth rec league soccer and collect your trophy at the end of the season. I have never, ever been in a situation where a coach would feel compelled to advise an athlete to compete differently out of compassion. Could the coach shuffle the line-up and have the sprinters compete in longer events and distance athletes in shorter, absolutely. The coach is well within his/her "lane" to conduct a little attitude adjustment at the next practice. For example the main set the next day might be 5 x 500 fly with the caveat of "How do you like me now?" I competed D1 in the 80's. We got trounced by another conference team every year. Did we complain? No. The race is against the clock.

  12. #72
    Very Active Member orca1946's Avatar
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    Re: 500 Fly: worthy challenge or arrogant showboating?

    My motto ---" you - the water - the clock" seems to apply here.

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    Re: 500 Fly: worthy challenge or arrogant showboating?

    At the end of the day, no one can determine if another person is goiing to be offended or not. So whether or not folks here think it is showboating or not is really, IMHO, not relevant. I will say that, I've been thinking about how I feel about it, and ended up asking myself what I'd think if 67Princess did that, and my response was that I'd be ticked, because I'd find it a bit disrespectful to her peers/competitors. So I guess that puts me in the "arrogant showboating" category even if I weren't personally offended.

  14. #74
    Active Member Treebox's Avatar
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    Re: 500 Fly: worthy challenge or arrogant showboating?

    I guess a pause at 250 yards to make sure everyone is comfortable and not offended. Orange slices and juice boxes? A comfort station? Give me a break.

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    Re: 500 Fly: worthy challenge or arrogant showboating?

    Quote Originally Posted by Treebox View Post
    I guess a pause at 250 yards to make sure everyone is comfortable and not offended. Orange slices and juice boxes? A comfort station? Give me a break.
    LOL the human ability/frailty to be offended is quite astonishing - almost as astonishing as doing flutterby for ANY extended period of time

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    Re: 500 Fly: worthy challenge or arrogant showboating?

    Quote Originally Posted by Treebox View Post
    I guess a pause at 250 yards to make sure everyone is comfortable and not offended. Orange slices and juice boxes? A comfort station? Give me a break.
    Being offensive and showing bad sportsmanship are not the same thing. Rearing one's kids to show good sportsmanship is, if anything, rearing them to be tough and not easily offended.

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    Very Active Member Mark Usher's Avatar
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    Re: 500 Fly: worthy challenge or arrogant showboating?

    I officiate a lot of high school meets, where it's all about scoring team points. Times are secondary and I see a lot of swimmers "shut down" once they have an insurmountable lead. Worked a meet last night where a girl who had been to Jr Nats coasted in with a 25 meter lead in the 100 fly. No one complained or thought it was unsportsmanlike.
    That being said, if a swimmer gave up potential team points by swimming fly in a 500 free heat, then the coach might be justifiably upset. Rather than being offended, the opponents might be appreciative...

  18. #78
    Very Active Member Chris Stevenson's Avatar
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    Re: 500 Fly: worthy challenge or arrogant showboating?

    I'm with Treebox on this. How does it impact you directly, except maybe (hopefully) inspiring you to swim faster or get better?

    I coached in summer league for a while. One of my best swimmers had been having shoulder problems and was ordered only to swim only with one arm so her shoulder could recover. She wanted to contribute to the team and insisted on competing -- we also have a rule that you can't swim an event in the championship meet that you didn't participate in during the regular season -- and she did a freestyle and a backstroke race with one arm. But she has an amazing kick and won both her races even so.

    A few people (all parents) were offended, thinking she was showboating. Explaining the situation only mollified some, others thought she should not have competed at all. Somehow the fact that she would have crushed their little darlings even more thoroughly with two good arms escaped them.

    Regarding the 500 fly, as long as a swimmer entered a reasonable guesstimate of his/her time (b/c sandbagging is of course evil), my hat's off.

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    Re: 500 Fly: worthy challenge or arrogant showboating?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stevenson View Post
    I'm with Treebox on this. How does it impact you directly, except maybe (hopefully) inspiring you to swim faster or get better?

    I coached in summer league for a while. One of my best swimmers had been having shoulder problems and was ordered only to swim only with one arm so her shoulder could recover. She wanted to contribute to the team and insisted on competing -- we also have a rule that you can't swim an event in the championship meet that you didn't participate in during the regular season -- and she did a freestyle and a backstroke race with one arm. But she has an amazing kick and won both her races even so.

    A few people (all parents) were offended, thinking she was showboating. Explaining the situation only mollified some, others thought she should not have competed at all. Somehow the fact that she would have crushed their little darlings even more thoroughly with two good arms escaped them.

    Regarding the 500 fly, as long as a swimmer entered a reasonable guesstimate of his/her time (b/c sandbagging is of course evil), my hat's off.
    Some parents don't get it. That swimmer could be thought of as a role model, obeying the rules, accepting her limitations and giving her best effort for herself and the team. She didn't quit, she found a way to do something productive. Those offended parents need to understand that every swimmer out there has *some* limitations. Your girl who won one-arm and kicking accepted hers. If another swimmer wants to take her spot in the fast heat, or win the race, that swimmer must figure out how to do so in spite of their own limitations.

    If someone were to beat me in a freestyle race swimming all fly, I might be humbled, embarrassed even if I got trounced badly enough, but not offended. Now if that swimmer stopped at every wall, waited for me to get one meter from the wall, yelled. "you suck you lame tadpole" then pushed off and repeated this procedure, that would definitely be unsportsmanlike. In none of the examples cited above, is there any mention of the swimmer behaving in such a way.

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