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Thread: 2014 Spring Nationals Seeding Decisions

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    Very Active Member jroddin's Avatar
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    2014 Spring Nationals Seeding Decisions

    (Please note the change to the men's 500 free seeding and a correction to the check-in deadline for Sunday's 200s shown below.)

    With 2250 swimmers entered the meet, our longest projected day is Sunday. We have decided to seed some events differently on Sunday in order to trim the timeline instead of cutting the sixth event. Below are the seeding decisions for the meet:

    Thursday:
    1000 and 1650 will be deck seeded by time, men and women separate.

    Friday:
    50s, 100s and 200s will be pre-seeded by age group.
    400 IM will be deck seeded by time, men and women separate.

    Saturday:
    Women's 500 free will be deck seeded by age group.
    50s, 100s and 200s will be pre-seeded by age group.

    Sunday:
    Men's 500 free will be deck seeded by age group.
    50s and 100s will be pre-seeded by age group.
    200s will be deck seeded by age group.

    Please note in the past we've always been consistent (e.g. all 200s seeded the same way, etc.). So please remember to positively check in for those 200s on Sunday. And if you should check in early in the meet and later decide you won't swim a 200 on Sunday, please let the admin officials know prior to 9am on Sunday so you can be removed and not seeded. Empty lanes in deck seeded events are frowned upon and miscreants are subject to public humiliation (just kidding - but if Mark Gill were announcing you can be sure he would light you up)!

    Another difference from the past is the competition pool warm up hours on Thursday ("distance day"). The competition pool will only be open for 60 minutes following the last heat of the 1650. We plan to post an estimated timeline next week, but Thursday's competition should end ~2pm, so the pool(s) will close ~3pm (ballpark).

    Good luck to all swimmers!

    Jeff Roddin
    USMS Championship Committee
    Last edited by jroddin; April 14th, 2014 at 12:16 PM.

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    Very Active Member pwb's Avatar
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    Re: 2014 Spring Nationals Seeding Decisions

    Jeff / National Committee / Santa Clara / Pacific Swimming,

    THANKS for making these adjustments to ensure this HUGE meet goes off and that we get our 6th event in. I really, really appreciate all the work you all are doing to make this happen. This is going to be a rip-roaring, fun meet made all the better by getting to swim the full complement of events.

    I really applaud all the behind-the-scenes work that is going on ahead of the big event, and all of the volunteers who will make it happen.


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    Very Active Member mmlr38's Avatar
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    Re: 2014 Spring Nationals Seeding Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by pwb View Post
    Jeff / National Committee / Santa Clara / Pacific Swimming,

    THANKS for making these adjustments to ensure this HUGE meet goes off and that we get our 6th event in. I really, really appreciate all the work you all are doing to make this happen. This is going to be a rip-roaring, fun meet made all the better by getting to swim the full complement of events.

    I really applaud all the behind-the-scenes work that is going on ahead of the big event, and all of the volunteers who will make it happen.

    +1 !!!

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    Very Active Member knelson's Avatar
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    Re: 2014 Spring Nationals Seeding Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by jroddin View Post
    We plan to post an estimated timeline next week, but Thursday's competition should end ~2pm
    Don't go too fast. I think my flight gets in around 11 am! I figured I wouldn't be swimming till late afternoon.

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    Very Active Member jroddin's Avatar
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    Re: 2014 Spring Nationals Seeding Decisions

    Please note I have edited my original post with one change and one correction.

    The change is the men's 500 free will now be deck seeded by age group.

    The correction is the check-in deadline for Sunday's 200s is 9am - I had it wrong in my first post when I said 7am.

    Thanks,
    Jeff

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    Very Active Member Karen Duggan's Avatar
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    Re: 2014 Spring Nationals Seeding Decisions

    I agree with Patrick. I have a really good idea, now, of what all goes into this, thanks to Jeff.
    This really is a pretty cool event considering there aren't too many (none I can think of) adult
    national competitions, and certainly none this large.
    THANK YOU
    K.Duggan

  7. #7
    Very Active Member jroddin's Avatar
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    Re: 2014 Spring Nationals Seeding Decisions

    An estimated timeline is available for the meet:
    http://www.usms.org/comp/scnats14/timeline.pdf

    This timeline is only a guide for use in determining the approximate start of all events. We may run ahead of or behind the estimate. This estimate is based upon historical scratch rates for deck seeded events and the relay durations are guesses based on scaling up smaller Nationals.

    It is the responsibility of all swimmers to get to the pool well before their events and be behind the blocks before their heats start. All swimmers must check in for all deck-seeded events by the check-in deadlines!

    Jeff

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    Re: 2014 Spring Nationals Seeding Decisions

    Given that 2250 people are entered it would be nice if you would consider leaving the pool open Thursday until 6:00. It will be a zoo Friday morning and almost impossible to warm up and get a few turns in a new pool for most.

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    Very Active Member knelson's Avatar
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    Re: 2014 Spring Nationals Seeding Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by bfwilliams View Post
    It will be a zoo Friday morning and almost impossible to warm up and get a few turns in a new pool for most.
    It might not be that bad. The 400 IMs are the first event Friday, so I'm sure plenty of people won't show until the 30 minute warmup following the IMs.

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    Very Active Member pwb's Avatar
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    Re: 2014 Spring Nationals Seeding Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by knelson View Post
    The 400 IMs are the first event Friday, so I'm sure plenty of people won't show until the 30 minute warmup following the IMs.
    In fact, there will be so many heats of 400 IMs that, if you are not swimming the 400 IM, warming up before the 400 IM will be counter-productive to your later racing efforts:
    • You'll miss out on sleep,
    • Get cold hanging around in the frigid, foggy Bay Area
    • and then, "leave your race in the warmup pool" because you will then have to warmup again later before your actual race


    Trust me as I swam Nationals in Santa Clara back in 2001 and raced at this same pool back in 1986 (e.g., almost 30 years of experience backing up this highly accurate recommendation), if you are not swimming the 400 IM, you do not want to show up at the pool a minute before the the last heat of the 400 IMs dives in the water. That will allow you the requisite ~5 minutes to take off your clothes and slip into the pool at the optimal time, right at the start of the 30 minute warmup after the 400 IMs ...

    ... just don't jump in on me as I cool down from my IM as I'll be very tired, not able to see straight.

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    Re: 2014 Spring Nationals Seeding Decisions

    Looking at the heat sheets I was wondering why the oldest swimmers are often in heat two and not heat one. This doesnt make any sense and is not the way the seeding is supposed to be. My understanding of the rules is that heats are based on age, old to young. In the womens 200 fly there are 50 year olds in heat one and 80 year olds in heat two. I understand that slower swimmers are sometimes put in different heats but this is done consistantly. In the womens 100 fly the whole heat of 65-69's is in heat one with the 70s and 80s in heat two, This is not only inconsistant but also confusing and I can see people missing their heats.

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    Very Active Member barryf's Avatar
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    Re: 2014 Spring Nationals Seeding Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by amswimmer View Post
    Looking at the heat sheets I was wondering why the oldest swimmers are often in heat two and not heat one. This doesnt make any sense and is not the way the seeding is supposed to be. My understanding of the rules is that heats are based on age, old to young. In the womens 200 fly there are 50 year olds in heat one and 80 year olds in heat two. I understand that slower swimmers are sometimes put in different heats but this is done consistantly. In the womens 100 fly the whole heat of 65-69's is in heat one with the 70s and 80s in heat two, This is not only inconsistant but also confusing and I can see people missing their heats.
    The Meet Manager software to run meets has the ability to switch two heats. This is often used at USMS National Championships because heat 1 can be a lot slower than heat 2. Because we are running two courses, the even numbered of heats normally take less time that the odd heats. This is always true for events seeded by time but most of the events are seeded by age group. Bottom line is that the meet will run faster if heat 1 and 2 are switched when there is a significant difference in the slowest times in heats 1 and 2. Heat 2 is usually started about 30 seconds after heat1 so swimmers should not miss their heat.
    Last edited by barryf; April 17th, 2014 at 04:54 PM.

  13. #13
    Very Active Member jroddin's Avatar
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    Re: 2014 Spring Nationals Seeding Decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by barryf View Post
    The Meet Manager software to run meets has the ability to switch two heats. This is often used at USMS National Championships because heat 1 can be a lot slower than heat 2. Because we are running two courses, the even numbered of heats normally take less time that the odd heats. This is always true for events seeded by time but most of the events are seeded by age group. Bottom line is that the meet will run faster if heat 1 and 2 are switched when there is a significant difference is the slowest times in heats 1 and 2. Heat 2 is usually started about 30 seconds after heat1 so swimmers should not miss their heat.
    Thanks, Barry, for the explanation.

    To clarify: this practice is only done when we are using two courses (i.e. Short Course Nationals). Normally you think of heat 2 as coming after heat 1, but for two courses you have an "even" course and an "odd" course (or sometimes east vs west, north vs south, etc.). So heat 2 is actually the very first heat in that particular course.

    Jeff

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