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Thread: Video analysis: Beginner Butterfly

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    Video analysis: Beginner Butterfly

    Began learning fly a few weeks ago. First 15 yards in video are awful, last ten perhaps less awful. Masters coach says: head down, more rhythm with body and less knees in kick. I'm sure she's right, but I also welcome any other tips or suggestions. Thanks! Here's a link to the video:

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B01...ew?usp=sharing

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    aka Elaine-iaK & Aqua Dog ElaineK's Avatar
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    Re: Video analysis: Beginner Butterfly

    Quote Originally Posted by revchris View Post
    Began learning fly a few weeks ago. First 15 yards in video are awful, last ten perhaps less awful. Masters coach says: head down, more rhythm with body and less knees in kick. I'm sure she's right, but I also welcome any other tips or suggestions. Thanks! Here's a link to the video:

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B01...ew?usp=sharing
    Kudos! That's pretty darn good for a newbie fly. The best part of your stroke, in my opinion, is that I see virtually no forward splash when your arms land. The very little splash is going across, from side to side. That's good!

    I am no fly expert myself; however, I have heard plenty from my coach on what I should (or shouldn't) be doing. I think your coach is correct with her recommendations. Keep working on those three recommendations, and you will have a beautiful fly!
    http://ElaineiaKsTravels.wordpress.com

    ~ Believing in your dreams can be far more rewarding than living by your limitations ~Karla Peterson

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    Very Active Member __steve__'s Avatar
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    Re: Video analysis: Beginner Butterfly

    Congratulations

    I am also not an expert, others will chime in for details, but addressing a few simple areas I notice might help.

    Tighter streamline off the wall
    Keep the first several dolphin kicks (before strokes start) under water. Your pushing bubbles there
    Try to minimally lift head for breathing - flatter

    These may maintain momentum and postpone fatigue
    good job

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    Re: Video analysis: Beginner Butterfly

    Thanks, Steve. Had not thought about the push off the wall. I appreciate the tip.

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    Very Active Member Gary P's Avatar
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    Re: Video analysis: Beginner Butterfly

    Looks pretty good for a beginner. The most obvious thing to me was something your coach already said; less knee bend on the kick. The power should come more from your core. Keep working at it, though.

    Now I gotta ask, is that a public pool or somebody's home? That's almost exactly how I'd imagine my personal training pool had I enough money and property to build one.
    Last edited by Gary P; September 3rd, 2015 at 04:04 PM.

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    Re: Video analysis: Beginner Butterfly

    I wondered if anybody would ask about that pool! One of our masters coaches does some lessons in that pool, which is in a private home. Very nice setup. I, too, am envious!

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    Very Active Member Swimspire's Avatar
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    Re: Video analysis: Beginner Butterfly

    RevChris, it's great to see that you have arrived at this stage of the butterfly in such a short period of time - but also good for you to seek a second opinion! There are a few aspects of the stroke you need to work on. Two areas that stand out are the timing of your second kick, and the insweep of your pull, which is too wide. You also need to develop a better finish. Good luck!

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    Re: Video analysis: Beginner Butterfly

    My thanks to Swimspire and everyone else for their encouragement and suggestions!

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    Re: Video analysis: Beginner Butterfly

    Hi Revchris. I would agree with others here - not bad at all for someone who is attempting to swim butterfly.

    Can I suggest you try this. I think I'd be inclined to slow down the stroke. When your arms enter the water, don't be in too much of a hurry to start your pull. If you hold your dive, you will allow your body to follow through. This will give you an undulating stroke, which all butterfliers aim for.

    Start your pull to bring yourself up to the surface - if this makes sense? It's undulation you should be aiming for. If you can keep posting a video here it would help.

    I too, like the pool.

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    Re: Video analysis: Beginner Butterfly

    Yep, almost all the suggestions come back to finding the rythm needed for undulation. That's what barely begins to emerge the last ten yards in the video. My coach has had me work some with one-armed fly and just dolphin kicking with fins. I can "feel it" some with the fins, so I think I will get there. Will post another video in a few weeks, this time probably from the humble public pool where our Masters team trains!

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    Very Active Member gobears's Avatar
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    Re: Video analysis: Beginner Butterfly

    I looked online for a good head lead body dolphin drill video and the best one I could find was this:



    Try this with your arms at your sides and only letting your kick be a snap at the end of a total body movement (rather than a separate movement from the knees). The more you press your chest at the front of the stroke and get your hips up - the better, IMO...

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    Re: Video analysis: Beginner Butterfly

    Great video. Thanks for sharing it. I had to chuckle when viewing it, because the two people doing the kick correctly appear to be the age of my coach, and the one guy shown doing it incorrectly looks to be about my age (50). But I hasten to say there's nothing keeping me from doing the kick correctly, given that we've got plenty of older swimmers on our team who can clip right along with a solid butterfly stroke. The video stresses the connection between the chest going down and the hips up, which was the very thing my coach stressed at the end of our lesson. Everybody's comments on this thread have given me some great things to work on beyond what my coach suggested, but they've also confirmed that my coach knows her stuff. Thanks again!

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    Very Active Member GGS5T's Avatar
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    Re: Video analysis: Beginner Butterfly

    Revchris, I've looked again at your video. I think it might help if you tried not to put too much effort into your kick. The secret to fly (if there is a secret) is to hold your glide momentarily. As you dive down, your bottom needs to break the surface.

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    Re: Video analysis: Beginner Butterfly

    Very impressive as Fly is the most beautiful of strokes that also requires the most strength, coordination and execution or it looks likes someone is drowning :-)

    I like the relaxed arm recovery out front, that's something I teach as a primary focus point so you are on the right track there. As someone said, your pull needs to be a little narrower and you need to accelerate the last half of the pull so you can helps your arms exit the water a little easier.

    I think you are focusing too much on getting your kick in so you are kicking from the knees rather than from the hips as part of the body dolphin movement. My recommendation is to search out the chest press drill for butterfly as I this is my all time favorite drill for young swimmers as it teaches the critical body movement that will help to move the kick more in sync with the body. There should be two kicks, one when the hands exit the water at the completion of the pull and one when then hands enter the water at the end of the recovery.

    But really, quite a solid foundation.

    -pw

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    Re: Video analysis: Beginner Butterfly

    Quote Originally Posted by revchris View Post
    Began learning fly a few weeks ago. First 15 yards in video are awful, last ten perhaps less awful. Masters coach says: head down, more rhythm with body and less knees in kick. I'm sure she's right, but I also welcome any other tips or suggestions. Thanks! Here's a link to the video:

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B01...ew?usp=sharing

    Agreed that this is a great beginning! Something that helped me swim flatter fly, keeping my head lower was the suggestion that I breathe to the side.

    Once that flat fly is habitual, then keeping the chin in the water is the next step. These two coaching suggestions enabled me to drop 5 seconds from my 50 in all courses.

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    Re: Video analysis: Beginner Butterfly

    I see you putting the kick in at the same time as 2 kicks. Try to do one at the end of the arm stroke and the other as you dive forward and into the water with the arms.

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    Re: Video analysis: Beginner Butterfly

    Once again, I really appreciate all the great advice! I don't have a new video, but swims seem to have been improving. My times are about the same, but I am able to do a lot more fly without getting exhausted. Still trying to loosen up my hips, but the stroke is shallower now with more forward movement and a smaller kick. One online video suggested kicking your arms out of the water and kicking your arms forward on the reach. This has helped me with the timing of the two kicks. The suggestion to streamline better off the wall has also been helpful, because it has helped me to get a rhythm going and has also kept the stroke a little narrower I think. Thanks again!

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    Very Active Member laineybug's Avatar
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    Re: Video analysis: Beginner Butterfly

    Try practicing your kick with fins. You might want to look up what TI calls head lead dolphin. That, plus fins really provided the undulation of the body feel.

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    Very Active Member Swimspire's Avatar
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    Re: Video analysis: Beginner Butterfly

    Glad you're progressing in the butterfly! One note about fins: as many of the commentators here noticed, you tend to kick from your knees and your kick is not finishing completely. One of the problems with fins is that many swimmers inadvertently kick more from the knees in using them. If you end up using fins often and improperly, you will be emphasizing an exaggerated bent knee and not working on the finish of your kick. I would be sure to alternate between kicking with and without them. Keep us posted on your continued progress!

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    Re: Video analysis: Beginner Butterfly

    Quote Originally Posted by revchris View Post
    Began learning fly a few weeks ago. First 15 yards in video are awful, last ten perhaps less awful. Masters coach says: head down, more rhythm with body and less knees in kick. I'm sure she's right, but I also welcome any other tips or suggestions. Thanks! Here's a link to the video:

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B01...ew?usp=sharing
    you need to gradually develop your core strength and start your kick from your core, not from your knees. this is more than just a matter of technique - unless you are a powerlifter most likely your core muscles are almost completely atrophied - it will take you probably a year to build up your core power to the point where ( assuming you have got your technique at that point ) you will actually be *flying*

    make sure you practice at least twice a week ( every other day is optimal ) and make sure you can feel your core muscle after each workout, but not to the point of risking injury, and not so much that they're still sore by the next workout.

    watch this video of Ryan Lochte:



    notice the amount of action going on in his core. you will not be able to do this for a while, but your goal should be to eventually be able to do this.
    Last edited by g1981c; September 12th, 2015 at 05:25 AM.

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