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Thread: 2018 Summer Long Course Masters UANA Pan American

  1. #1
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    Question 2018 Summer Long Course Masters UANA Pan American

    So, my 2017 Summer Nationals performance was OK, but left room for improvement and I'm thinking about planning to start training for 2018 Long Course Summer Nationals.

    Oops, there is no USMS Summer Nationals in 2018, in deference to the UANA Pan American Masters Championships.

    I cannot find any information about if we can participate, how one qualifies, if we have to join UANA, etc., etc.

    I've checked the UANA site, the Orlando YMCA site, USMS site with no luck.

    Does anyone have any information about the event and whether those of us who were expecting a USMS Summer Nationals can plan to swim at the UANA Championships?

  2. #2
    Very Calm Member jim clemmons's Avatar
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    Re: 2018 Summer Long Course Masters UANA Pan American

    Not yet but if you're USMS registered, don't fret. You'll be covered.

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    Jim

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    Re: 2018 Summer Long Course Masters UANA Pan American

    For more information, see USMS website Events/National Championships with dates for the Pan Am's and a link with info to date. Here's a copy but links available from website...not my copy here...

    2018 U.S. Masters Swimming Summer National Championship
    The 2018 Summer Nationals will not be contested in favor of supporting the 2018 UANA Pan American Masters Championship in Orlando

    2018 UANA Pan American Masters Championship
    YMCA Aquatic Center, Orlando, Florida
    July 28 - August 3, 2018
    Long Course Meters
    The opinions expressed in the above post are mine and not those of U.S. Masters Swimming.

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    Re: 2018 Summer Long Course Masters UANA Pan American

    Thank you, sarahwelch and jimclemmons. I appreciate your input and will try to be patient. The Long Course Nationals are a major event in my annual schedule and I will be anxiously awaiting further information from USMS.

    I can understand that UANA is still getting organized and it is a long time until that meet, but I would have expected that if USMS decided not to hold a Summer Nationals in deference to UANA's otherwise nearly concurrent meet, they would also have prepared a statement or policy that explains how that decision affects their expectant USMS national long-course swimmers.

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    Very Calm Member jim clemmons's Avatar
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    Re: 2018 Summer Long Course Masters UANA Pan American

    Quote Originally Posted by ImaybeslowbutI'mold View Post
    Thank you, sarahwelch and jimclemmons. I appreciate your input and will try to be patient. The Long Course Nationals are a major event in my annual schedule and I will be anxiously awaiting further information from USMS.

    I can understand that UANA is still getting organized and it is a long time until that meet, but I would have expected that if USMS decided not to hold a Summer Nationals in deference to UANA's otherwise nearly concurrent meet, they would also have prepared a statement or policy that explains how that decision affects their expectant USMS national long-course swimmers.
    Well, I believe the statement you're referring to was generated by USMS as follows:

    "The 2018 Summer Nationals will not be contested in favor of supporting the 2018 UANA Pan American Masters Championship in Orlando."

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    Jim

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    Re: 2018 Summer Long Course Masters UANA Pan American

    I mean no disrespect, Jim. Clearly I've failed to articulate my questions well.
    Do USMS swimmers need to join UANA in order to participate, or is there reciprocal membership recognition?
    Is there a U.S. team, or do swimmers compete as individuals?
    It may be that there is no USMS connection at all with the UANA meet and that we swimmers simply participate as individuals within the Pan American swimming community, according to their as-yet-undefined qualification and entry requirements.
    Thank you for your patience.

  7. #7
    Very Calm Member jim clemmons's Avatar
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    Re: 2018 Summer Long Course Masters UANA Pan American

    No worries. Your USMS membership will allow participation without having to join another organization. I believe that is due to USMS being a member of UANA. You'll participate as a member of your current team (think relays, if you belong to one) otherwise as an unattached USA swimmer (no relays).

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    Re: 2018 Summer Long Course Masters UANA Pan American

    there is however 1 small problem. the usms rules clearly state that a summer nationals must be held:

    104.1

    Meet Categories

    USMS national championship meets shall be awarded in the following categories and

    held during the following dates

    104.1.2
    Long Course (50) Meters—
    Between August 1 and September 15. With the
    approval of the Championship Committee, other dates may be considered

  9. #9
    Very Calm Member jim clemmons's Avatar
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    Re: 2018 Summer Long Course Masters UANA Pan American

    Quote Originally Posted by sunruh View Post
    there is however 1 small problem. the usms rules clearly state that a summer nationals must be held:

    104.1

    Meet Categories

    USMS national championship meets shall be awarded in the following categories and

    held during the following dates

    104.1.2
    Long Course (50) Meters—
    Between August 1 and September 15. With the
    approval of the Championship Committee, other dates may be considered
    Hi Steve,

    Which one small problem are you referring to?
    Jim

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    Very Active Member jroddin's Avatar
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    Re: 2018 Summer Long Course Masters UANA Pan American

    Quote Originally Posted by sunruh View Post
    there is however 1 small problem. the usms rules clearly state that a summer nationals must be held:

    104.1

    Meet Categories

    USMS national championship meets shall be awarded in the following categories and

    held during the following dates

    104.1.2
    Long Course (50) Meters—
    Between August 1 and September 15. With the
    approval of the Championship Committee, other dates may be considered
    Steve,

    Article 506.3.10 gives the emergency power to suspend any swimming rule in Part One to the Board of Directors provided that the Board, with the advice and consent of the Rules Committee for part one rules, determines that immediate action is required to serve the interests of USMS.

    The USMS Rules committee had a conference call on May 7 and voted to provide consent to suspend the rule and put the matter in the hands of the USMS BOD.

    Please consult with a member of the Rules committee to verify everything was done properly...

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    Re: 2018 Summer Long Course Masters UANA Pan American

    Quote Originally Posted by jroddin View Post
    Steve,

    Article 506.3.10 gives the emergency power to suspend any swimming rule in Part One to the Board of Directors provided that the Board, with the advice and consent of the Rules Committee for part one rules, determines that immediate action is required to serve the interests of USMS.

    The USMS Rules committee had a conference call on May 7 and voted to provide consent to suspend the rule and put the matter in the hands of the USMS BOD.

    Please consult with a member of the Rules committee to verify everything was done properly...
    There is also precedent for not having a Summer Nats: In 2006, there wasn't one because Worlds took place in San Francisco.

  12. #12
    Very Active Member jroddin's Avatar
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    Re: 2018 Summer Long Course Masters UANA Pan American

    Quote Originally Posted by jroddin View Post
    Steve,

    Article 506.3.10 gives the emergency power to suspend any swimming rule in Part One to the Board of Directors provided that the Board, with the advice and consent of the Rules Committee for part one rules, determines that immediate action is required to serve the interests of USMS.

    The USMS Rules committee had a conference call on May 7 and voted to provide consent to suspend the rule and put the matter in the hands of the USMS BOD.

    Please consult with a member of the Rules committee to verify everything was done properly...
    I posted that too quickly. And as a follow-up, the BOD agreed to suspend 2018 Summer Nationals at their summer board meeting last month in Tampa. So all is good with regard to proper procedures and protocol being followed.

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    Re: 2018 Summer Long Course Masters UANA Pan American

    very good
    i dont think many (any?) have seen the BOD minutes from last month to know that the 2018 summer nats were suspended.
    to which:

    July 29, 2017:

    this very site doesnt even list the BOD meeting minutes for anybody to know that the rule was suspended.
    the june 19 meeting minutes talk about the next meeting being july 15.

  14. #14
    Very Calm Member jim clemmons's Avatar
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    Re: 2018 Summer Long Course Masters UANA Pan American

    Yes, Steve, they're a bit delayed with posting.

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    Jim

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    Re: 2018 Summer Long Course Masters UANA Pan American

    Though I usually attend most USMS National Championships and have attended a number of Pan Ams in really interesting places, I'm just not enthused about this concept. Orlando in summer....well, is Orlando in Summer. The extended meet schedule makes it difficult to attend for the whole meet. And while I've heard that the facility will be upgraded and there will be tents installed to extend the venue, I wonder if this is the right location for a combined event. I just don't think that an international event will maintain the USMS flavor for a national championship. Maybe it will work?

  16. #16
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    Re: 2018 Summer Long Course Masters UANA Pan American

    Quote Originally Posted by swoomer View Post
    Though I usually attend most USMS National Championships and have attended a number of Pan Ams in really interesting places, I'm just not enthused about this concept. Orlando in summer....well, is Orlando in Summer. The extended meet schedule makes it difficult to attend for the whole meet. And while I've heard that the facility will be upgraded and there will be tents installed to extend the venue, I wonder if this is the right location for a combined event. I just don't think that an international event will maintain the USMS flavor for a national championship. Maybe it will work?
    Please note this will not be a combined event. This is the UANA Pan Am meet. There will be no 2018 USMS Summer Nationals. The benefit to this particular Pan Am meet (as compared to others outside the US) is that USMS swimmers in the 18-24 age group will be permitted to compete in individual events. They will not be eligible for Pan Am awards and points, but their times will be eligible for USMS purposes (e.g. Top 10, Records, All American).

    Jeff

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    Re: 2018 Summer Long Course Masters UANA Pan American

    Quote Originally Posted by swoomer View Post
    Though I usually attend most USMS National Championships and have attended a number of Pan Ams in really interesting places, I'm just not enthused about this concept. Orlando in summer....well, is Orlando in Summer. The extended meet schedule makes it difficult to attend for the whole meet. And while I've heard that the facility will be upgraded and there will be tents installed to extend the venue, I wonder if this is the right location for a combined event. I just don't think that an international event will maintain the USMS flavor for a national championship. Maybe it will work?
    Could it be much worse than Houston (2007), Indianapolis (2009), or Auburn (2011) when it comes to heat and humidity?

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    Re: 2018 Summer Long Course Masters UANA Pan American

    I'd like to go back to the original issue.
    I'm pleased that USMS swimmers may not need to join UANA in order to compete, but remain hopeful for more information. The UANA site is not helpful.

    Jim and others have provided some details for which I am grateful, but I'm disappointed that a detailed "How the cancellation of USMS 2018 Summer Nationals will affect those USMS swimmers who planned on it" statement has not disseminated by USMS to all swimmers. If I've missed such a statement, I apologize.

    Among my questions:
    Can it be confirmed that current USMS swimmers will not need to join UANA (I know Jim said not to worry and he believed it was because USMS is a member of UANA)?
    Will competitions be decided on the basis of one swim, or might there be quarter finals, semi finals and finals?
    Are there qualifying times?
    Are the age groups and end-of-year basis the same for UANA as they are for USMS?
    Are there any differences in rules at the UANA Pan Am Masters competition relative to USMS rules?

    Others may have more questions.

    John

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    Very Active Member orca1946's Avatar
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    Re: 2018 Summer Long Course Masters UANA Pan American

    Well - now that is cleared up. I think. We will await Q times to see if we can get in.
    Do that allow any "free" non=Q times to enter?

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    Re: 2018 Summer Long Course Masters UANA Pan American

    Let me try and answer some of your questions John:

    Can it be confirmed that current USMS swimmers will not need to join UANA (I know Jim said not to worry and he believed it was because USMS is a member of UANA)? Jim is correct and USMS is a member of UANA. As long as USMS athlete have a current 2018 membership they will be allowed to participate in the event just as it was a National event.

    Will competitions be decided on the basis of one swim, or might there be quarter finals, semi finals and finals?
    All events will be timed finals

    Are there qualifying times?
    No, UANA committee has requested no Qualifying times for this event. But please be aware that we MAY have to limit entries on events or even the entire competition because of this in order to have a 10 hour competition day. We re encouraging athletes to register early as we are expecting a large number of swimmers for the pool event.

    Are the age groups and end-of-year basis the same for UANA as they are for USMS?
    yes, we are following FINA regulations and all age groups are based on their age on Dec, 31st of that year.

    Are there any differences in rules at the UANA Pan Am Masters competition relative to USMS rules?
    USMS adopts FINA rules for LCM events, so there should not be anything specific besides the 18-24 age groups. We are adding this age group for all individual events to allow all USMS members the opportunity to participate in the event. We are also looking at adding another age group (72+) for relays to allow younger members the opportunity to parcitipate. We are currently working out the details of this with our Sports Timing Management team to be able to separate the relays with athletes that are 18-24 for USMS records and top 10 only.

    Please let me know if anyone has any questions regarding the event.

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