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Thread: Time differentials between strokes

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    Time differentials between strokes

    For those who swim more than one stroke, do the differences in these times seem about average?

    50 yards from a push:

    Freestyle - :33/34
    Backstroke - :37
    Breaststroke - :46/47
    Butterfly - :35

    Any feedback is appreciated!

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    Re: Time differentials between strokes

    i would say your a fly/backstroker ... and like me they will be passing you in breaststroke in the IM
    As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.

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    Re: Time differentials between strokes

    Quote Originally Posted by jackback View Post
    i would say your a fly/backstroker ... and like me they will be passing you in breaststroke in the IM
    Those are my two favorite strokes... the other two are just so confounding.

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    Very Active Member JPEnge's Avatar
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    Re: Time differentials between strokes

    Yeah, your breaststroke is pretty far behind your other three strokes. I'd say 5-7 seconds difference between free and breast is probably a good rule of thumb.

    Backstroke is a bit off compared to your fly, in an ideal world those are pretty much even from a push. Obviously from a dive that would change things some.

    But keeping the ratios "in line" really only matters if you care to be a generalist or IMer.

    FWIW, I'm an IMer, pretty even between strokes. Last meet (which was my first meet back from 6-year swimming break so take it with a grain of salt), I swam all of the 50s short course meters, my times were:

    Fly - 26.5
    Back - 27.5
    Breast - 31.2
    Free - 25.3
    400 IMer/200 backstroker in another life, now sprinter/breaststroker... Yeah, I don't know how that happened either!

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    Re: Time differentials between strokes

    Quote Originally Posted by JPEnge View Post
    Yeah, your breaststroke is pretty far behind your other three strokes. I'd say 5-7 seconds difference between free and breast is probably a good rule of thumb.

    Backstroke is a bit off compared to your fly, in an ideal world those are pretty much even from a push. Obviously from a dive that would change things some.

    But keeping the ratios "in line" really only matters if you care to be a generalist or IMer.

    FWIW, I'm an IMer, pretty even between strokes. Last meet (which was my first meet back from 6-year swimming break so take it with a grain of salt), I swam all of the 50s short course meters, my times were:

    Fly - 26.5
    Back - 27.5
    Breast - 31.2
    Free - 25.3
    Wow those are great times,

    I guess my swimming goal would be not to have such a large variance/deficiency between any of the strokes... so breaststroke needs a lot of work. Iím probably too drag-sensitive for big improvements though, and swimming it feels like an accordion thatís being scrunched and stretched out over and over.

    i think I could see bigger improvements in back and fly, with some marginal improvement in free, but reducing the huge difference in the breast time is going to be a life long goal probably.

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    Re: Time differentials between strokes

    Quote Originally Posted by arrieros View Post
    Wow those are great times,

    I guess my swimming goal would be not to have such a large variance/deficiency between any of the strokes... so breaststroke needs a lot of work. Iím probably too drag-sensitive for big improvements though, and swimming it feels like an accordion thatís being scrunched and stretched out over and over.

    i think I could see bigger improvements in back and fly, with some marginal improvement in free, but reducing the huge difference in the breast time is going to be a life long goal probably.
    Thanks. I'm 29 and swam through college though, so I have a bit of an age or background advantage over many Masters swimmers.

    Do you swim alone or with a coach? I would hazard a guess based on your ratios that there are some pretty big improvements you could make in your breaststroke just with some basic technique tweaks - or some work on your underwaters. There are definitely some unique flexibility and strength needs for breaststroke compared to the other strokes, that's for sure, and if you're missing those you are SOL to some degree. We can't all have the same blend of strength, flexibility and feel for the water as, say, Kevin Cordes!
    400 IMer/200 backstroker in another life, now sprinter/breaststroker... Yeah, I don't know how that happened either!

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    Very Active Member __steve__'s Avatar
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    Re: Time differentials between strokes

    You can click here to compare collective masters swimmers time differences between strokes.

    I just did a little search out of curiosity. By taking the middle time (i.e. the 250th ranking time out of 500) for each stroke of the 50-54 male SCY swims last season respective to free.

    It was:
    fr 1.00
    bk 1.26
    br 1.32
    fl 1.10

    Yours was:
    fr 1.00
    bk 1.10
    br 1.38
    fl 1.06

    Myself:
    fr 1.00
    bk 1.23
    br 1.31
    fl 1.13

    I thought back was my slowest, turns out to be my fastest

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    Re: Time differentials between strokes

    Quote Originally Posted by JPEnge View Post
    Thanks. I'm 29 and swam through college though, so I have a bit of an age or background advantage over many Masters swimmers.

    Do you swim alone or with a coach? I would hazard a guess based on your ratios that there are some pretty big improvements you could make in your breaststroke just with some basic technique tweaks - or some work on your underwaters. There are definitely some unique flexibility and strength needs for breaststroke compared to the other strokes, that's for sure, and if you're missing those you are SOL to some degree. We can't all have the same blend of strength, flexibility and feel for the water as, say, Kevin Cordes!
    I swim by myself pretty much, have taken the odd swimming lesson here and there with a coach but nothing consistent. I did swim recently with a gentleman who only swims breaststroke (capable of :40/50yd) who has the flatter-style stroke with a really strong kick. Couldnít emulate him though, but I can work harder at it. I might bust a knee doing it though.

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    Re: Time differentials between strokes

    Quote Originally Posted by __steve__ View Post
    You can click here to compare collective masters swimmers time differences between strokes.

    I just did a little search out of curiosity. By taking the middle time (i.e. the 250th ranking time out of 500) for each stroke of the 50-54 male SCY swims last season respective to free.

    It was:
    fr 1.00
    bk 1.26
    br 1.32
    fl 1.10

    Yours was:
    fr 1.00
    bk 1.10
    br 1.38
    fl 1.06

    Myself:
    fr 1.00
    bk 1.23
    br 1.31
    fl 1.13

    I thought back was my slowest, turns out to be my fastest
    How interesting, thank you. I did a search for 2016-2017 Womenís 35-39 in the four strokes (there definitely werenít enough competitors to make 250 the midpoint but I used the median place for each event) and got the following:

    Median ratio:
    Free 1.00
    Back 1.19
    Breast 1.33
    Fly 1.08

    Myself:
    Free 1.00
    Back 1.12
    Breast 1.42
    Fly 1.06

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    Very Active Member JPEnge's Avatar
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    Re: Time differentials between strokes

    Quote Originally Posted by __steve__ View Post
    You can click here to compare collective masters swimmers time differences between strokes.

    I just did a little search out of curiosity. By taking the middle time (i.e. the 250th ranking time out of 500) for each stroke of the 50-54 male SCY swims last season respective to free.
    Heh. Mine look crazy. I must not be a freestyler comparatively. Which I guess I kinda already knew.
    Free 1.00
    Back 1.08
    Fly 1.04
    Breast 1.23

    Quote Originally Posted by arrieros View Post
    I swim by myself pretty much, have taken the odd swimming lesson here and there with a coach but nothing consistent. I did swim recently with a gentleman who only swims breaststroke (capable of :40/50yd) who has the flatter-style stroke with a really strong kick. Couldnít emulate him though, but I can work harder at it. I might bust a knee doing it though.
    Do you take any video? You might try doing that sometime... You might see something stick out yourself, or you might share with the forum here or a coach elsewhere and they may see something.
    400 IMer/200 backstroker in another life, now sprinter/breaststroker... Yeah, I don't know how that happened either!

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    Re: Time differentials between strokes

    Quote Originally Posted by JPEnge View Post
    Heh. Mine look crazy. I must not be a freestyler comparatively. Which I guess I kinda already knew.
    Free 1.00
    Back 1.08
    Fly 1.04
    Breast 1.23



    Do you take any video? You might try doing that sometime... You might see something stick out yourself, or you might share with the forum here or a coach elsewhere and they may see something.
    Iíd like to take videos but donít want to bother anyone, it seems like a lot of people have this dilemma too. Iíll have to do some research on the self-video options.

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    Re: Time differentials between strokes

    Yeah, it's hard because phone cameras aren't great at self-videoing swimming because they generally aren't wide angle enough. Not to mention not usually being waterproof enough to hang around at the edge of the pool (or underwater!). Before I bought my GoPro knockoff a few weeks ago, I'd only gotten myself videoed once recently and only because one of the guys that swims with me was out early stretching. Now with the "FauxPro" I can get some good videos, though I do need to work on the angle to get more of the lap in frame.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/Bc2KJwSH_zU/
    400 IMer/200 backstroker in another life, now sprinter/breaststroker... Yeah, I don't know how that happened either!

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    Re: Time differentials between strokes

    Oh those are some nice videos (and a nice pool). I might get one and try it out. I took a video of someone swimming underwater with a iPhone, and between the narrow field of vision, the cloudy water that day, the turbulence shaking my hands and trying to hold my breath to see what was on the video, the video didnít come out too well.

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    Very Active Member Allen Stark's Avatar
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    Re: Time differentials between strokes

    Quote Originally Posted by JPEnge View Post
    Yeah, it's hard because phone cameras aren't great at self-videoing swimming because they generally aren't wide angle enough. Not to mention not usually being waterproof enough to hang around at the edge of the pool (or underwater!). Before I bought my GoPro knockoff a few weeks ago, I'd only gotten myself videoed once recently and only because one of the guys that swims with me was out early stretching. Now with the "FauxPro" I can get some good videos, though I do need to work on the angle to get more of the lap in frame.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/Bc2KJwSH_zU/
    Have you tried the early dolphin kick in your pullout? Are you faster with the dolphin during the pulldown?
    "To strive,to seek,to find,and not to yield" Tennyson
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    Re: Time differentials between strokes

    Quote Originally Posted by Allen Stark View Post
    Have you tried the early dolphin kick in your pullout? Are you faster with the dolphin during the pulldown?
    At the risk of derailing the OP, I did dolphin during the pulldown all through college but I have been playing with timing a bit recently actually... I just haven't put a clock on it or anything yet. Will do more investigation and report back!
    400 IMer/200 backstroker in another life, now sprinter/breaststroker... Yeah, I don't know how that happened either!

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    Re: Time differentials between strokes

    Fly - 26.5
    Back - 27.5
    Breast - 31.2
    Free - 25.3

    OK, now I am really embarrassed with my times :-(

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    Re: Time differentials between strokes

    Quote Originally Posted by cmolnar65 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by JPEnge View Post
    I must not be a freestyler comparatively. Which I guess I kinda already knew.
    Free 1.00
    Back 1.08
    Fly 1.04
    Breast 1.23
    OK, now I am really embarrassed with my times :-(
    Those are super scm swims. The freestyle just seems like that because the strokes were so comparatively fast!

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    Re: Time differentials between strokes

    Quote Originally Posted by arrieros View Post
    Wow those are great times,

    I guess my swimming goal would be not to have such a large variance/deficiency between any of the strokes... so breaststroke needs a lot of work. Iím probably too drag-sensitive for big improvements though, and swimming it feels like an accordion thatís being scrunched and stretched out over and over.

    i think I could see bigger improvements in back and fly, with some marginal improvement in free, but reducing the huge difference in the breast time is going to be a life long goal probably.
    Well, I'm a terrible backstoker and my backstroke time wise has been worst than breaststroke since I was a kid. Its true you probably need to work on breaststroke since I did a 42 breaststroke when I was 45 years old after not swimming for over 30 years. At age 59 years old for not swimming much the past 8 years I posted a 51 second breaststroke.

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    Re: Time differentials between strokes

    Quote Originally Posted by cinc3100 View Post
    Well, I'm a terrible backstoker and my backstroke time wise has been worst than breaststroke since I was a kid. Its true you probably need to work on breaststroke since I did a 42 breaststroke when I was 45 years old after not swimming for over 30 years. At age 59 years old for not swimming much the past 8 years I posted a 51 second breaststroke.
    Iím going to get a camera to film myself underwater and over water... hopefully the areas for improvement will be apparent and an easy fix.

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    Re: Time differentials between strokes

    Quote Originally Posted by cinc3100 View Post
    Well, I'm a terrible backstoker and my backstroke time wise has been worst than breaststroke since I was a kid.
    Although I didn't swim as a kid, I'm the same way. My strokes by speed are: free, breast/back (about the same), then fly.

    I've swum the 100 IM at meets a few times, both yards and meters. After the first 50 I'm usually toward the back of the pack, then by the end of breast I'm back in the thick of things.
    Check out my blog here
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