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Thread: Video Analysis- Backstroke

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    Video Analysis- Backstroke

    Hi again,

    I hope this doesn't annoy anyone but if there's any feedback on my backstroke please feel free to share.

    This isn't my fast pace; I can sustain this pace for a set of 4X200yds, which is what I was doing although the video is truncated.



    Thanks in advance,
    Last edited by arrieros; January 13th, 2018 at 03:59 PM.

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    Active Member airborne18th's Avatar
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    Re: Video Analysis- Backstroke

    the top video if you could reshoot it from a higher angle.. the underwater is actually good video.. work on your kick. keep the legs together.. backstroke needs a fast shallow kick.. and has to be a flutter kick from the hips.. You also don't need that much hip rotation.. the hips with an engaged core should drive the shoulder into the water.. do kicking drills on your back.. either streamlined or arms to the side.. work on shallow fast flutter kicks.. Also your legs are sinking.. can't really see the head position, but it could be head position and core related.. Your pull needs a little work.. you are letting the hand bend a little too soon in the pull.. and letting it flop at the wrist..

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    Active Member airborne18th's Avatar
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    Re: Video Analysis- Backstroke

    One other tip.. just random and can't tell from the video.. but don't arch your back with backstroke.. you want a flat back, and you want the upper back pushing down in the water.. do Pelvic Tilts.. look it up on the internet.. do them on the floor in the living room. Very helpful exercise anyway.

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    Re: Video Analysis- Backstroke

    Quote Originally Posted by airborne18th View Post
    the top video if you could reshoot it from a higher angle.. the underwater is actually good video.. work on your kick. keep the legs together.. backstroke needs a fast shallow kick.. and has to be a flutter kick from the hips.. You also don't need that much hip rotation.. the hips with an engaged core should drive the shoulder into the water.. do kicking drills on your back.. either streamlined or arms to the side.. work on shallow fast flutter kicks.. Also your legs are sinking.. can't really see the head position, but it could be head position and core related.. Your pull needs a little work.. you are letting the hand bend a little too soon in the pull.. and letting it flop at the wrist..
    i can try to perch the camera on the lifeguard chair and see if that gives a better overhead view...

    was thinking the same thing about the kick and the over?rotation. Though it feels like a small tight kick when I’m doing it, that’s not what it looks like in the video.

    Regarding the pull, I try to pull my elbow into my side as soon as possible upon hand entry... is that where you see the hand bend and flop?

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    Active Member airborne18th's Avatar
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    Re: Video Analysis- Backstroke

    Yes that would be perfect.. from the lifeguard chair.

    The pull I have to slow motion a few more times. Your hand flops, that is probably the bigger issue I think. But there is only a few seconds of the video where you can really see the pull.. When you get done.. where in your legs do you feel the workout? calves.. hips.. thighs?

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    Re: Video Analysis- Backstroke

    Quote Originally Posted by airborne18th View Post
    Yes that would be perfect.. from the lifeguard chair.

    The pull I have to slow motion a few more times. Your hand flops, that is probably the bigger issue I think. But there is only a few seconds of the video where you can really see the pull.. When you get done.. where in your legs do you feel the workout? calves.. hips.. thighs?
    I feel the kick in mostly in my quads, and to a lesser extent the hip/groin area. Calves not at all.

    is the hand flop you see the ‘flourish’ at the end?

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    Active Member airborne18th's Avatar
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    Re: Video Analysis- Backstroke

    Quote Originally Posted by arrieros View Post
    I feel the kick in mostly in my quads, and to a lesser extent the hip/groin area. Calves not at all.

    is the hand flop you see the ‘flourish’ at the end?
    No I see it earlier than at the end, almost at the midpoint... but I will slow motion it in my video software.. but you have really good form with the arm.. I just think your hand is too relaxed and not getting as much out of it.. I can't really see the entry from the other video.. so hopefully another angle will help.. I think the entry probably needs some tweeking.. so that you get full extension of the arm.. and get a better catch earlier in the stroke.

    one thing on the kick. kick like you are trying to keep your knees and feet together.. aaron peirsol has a really great video on the kick and rotation..

    you should feel it up into the hip.. so that is good.

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    Re: Video Analysis- Backstroke

    Quote Originally Posted by airborne18th View Post
    No I see it earlier than at the end, almost at the midpoint... but I will slow motion it in my video software.. but you have really good form with the arm.. I just think your hand is too relaxed and not getting as much out of it.. I can't really see the entry from the other video.. so hopefully another angle will help.. I think the entry probably needs some tweeking.. so that you get full extension of the arm.. and get a better catch earlier in the stroke.

    one thing on the kick. kick like you are trying to keep your knees and feet together.. aaron peirsol has a really great video on the kick and rotation..

    you should feel it up into the hip.. so that is good.
    Ok here's 100yds from the top; easy cruising speed.



    Any feedback appreciated! Including on how to take non-shaky videos.

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    Re: Video Analysis- Backstroke

    arrieros,

    This is more helpful than the first video. An even better orientation would be from the side and underwater.

    IMO, your pulling pattern needs some adjustment. It looks like your hand stays very deep throughout the pull and, it is possible you are pushing water mostly towards the bottom. If you look at some Youtube video of Lochte and Welsh, you will see that they get a solid catch at the front of the stroke and the pulling pattern includes the hand getting very close to the surface before finishing in a downward direction. Your hand looks to start deep and get even deeper.

    The result is little acceleration towards the end of the pull plus making rotation much more difficult.

    It is quite difficult to verbalize what it should look like, so I usually tell my swimmers to feel like they are grabbing a softball and throwing it side arm towards their feet. You will need someone watching to give you feedback about your arm orientation. I find it helps to let your hips be a little lower in the water (1-2") because it will make it easier to get upper body rotation. You will feel like you are sitting and that is ok to help you change the pulling pattern.

    Another way to think about the catch on backstroke is that it is exactly like the catch on freestyle - except you rotate 90 degrees from your stomach to your back and your palm faces in a different direction.

    I think your shimmer is pretty good - could be a bit more amplitude to gain a little more power.

    Hope this helps and Good Luck.

    Paul

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    Re: Video Analysis- Backstroke

    Quote Originally Posted by Windrath View Post
    arrieros,

    This is more helpful than the first video. An even better orientation would be from the side and underwater.

    IMO, your pulling pattern needs some adjustment. It looks like your hand stays very deep throughout the pull and, it is possible you are pushing water mostly towards the bottom. If you look at some Youtube video of Lochte and Welsh, you will see that they get a solid catch at the front of the stroke and the pulling pattern includes the hand getting very close to the surface before finishing in a downward direction. Your hand looks to start deep and get even deeper.

    The result is little acceleration towards the end of the pull plus making rotation much more difficult.

    It is quite difficult to verbalize what it should look like, so I usually tell my swimmers to feel like they are grabbing a softball and throwing it side arm towards their feet. You will need someone watching to give you feedback about your arm orientation. I find it helps to let your hips be a little lower in the water (1-2") because it will make it easier to get upper body rotation. You will feel like you are sitting and that is ok to help you change the pulling pattern.

    Another way to think about the catch on backstroke is that it is exactly like the catch on freestyle - except you rotate 90 degrees from your stomach to your back and your palm faces in a different direction.

    I think your shimmer is pretty good - could be a bit more amplitude to gain a little more power.

    Hope this helps and Good Luck.

    Paul
    Yes it does, thank you.

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    Very Active Member quicksilver's Avatar
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    Re: Video Analysis- Backstroke

    A quick observation...which goes along with the previous comment from Paul. The angle of the hand wants to send every ounce of water towards your feet - and ultimately towards the black turn marker at the far end of the pool. Your hand appears to be finishing with a slight orientation towards the pool bottom - and it seems that the umph isn't quite there as your arm has fully extended at the completion of the pull.

    The finish of the stroke wants to be about six to eight inches away from your hip pocket. Kind of as if you are stuffing money into your jeans. As you rotate towards the entry phase of your stroke, the exit hand should be ready to slice right out of there. (You can see this in the attached screen capture where your hand is finishing slightly buried, and the angle may be possibly directing of water towards towards the bottom rather than your feet.)

    Aside from the finish, the catch phase is as equally important. Gather water as soon as the hand enters. Don't let your hands and arms just ease through the stroke. Imagine latching onto a rope, and pulling yourself down the lanes.

    Other than that, stroke mechanics look generally good with a nice level and horizontal body posture - which is great for minimal drag. Keep at it!
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    Re: Video Analysis- Backstroke

    Quote Originally Posted by quicksilver View Post
    A quick observation...which goes along with the previous comment from Paul. The angle of the hand wants to send every ounce of water towards your feet - and ultimately towards the black turn marker at the far end of the pool. Your hand appears to be finishing with a slight orientation towards the pool bottom - and it seems that the umph isn't quite there as your arm has fully extended at the completion of the pull.

    The finish of the stroke wants to be about six to eight inches away from your hip pocket. Kind of as if you are stuffing money into your jeans. As you rotate towards the entry phase of your stroke, the exit hand should be ready to slice right out of there. (You can see this in the attached screen capture where your hand is finishing slightly buried, and the angle may be possibly directing of water towards towards the bottom rather than your feet.)

    Aside from the finish, the catch phase is as equally important. Gather water as soon as the hand enters. Don't let your hands and arms just ease through the stroke. Imagine latching onto a rope, and pulling yourself down the lanes.

    Other than that, stroke mechanics look generally good with a nice level and horizontal body posture - which is great for minimal drag. Keep at it!
    I can see it in the screenshot... So the hand should generally follow the line of the body? Yes my arm is still down there when I start rotating to the other side.

    Isn’t a little tricky to avoid pushing yourself sideways with a more shallow pull? I was experiencing some zigzagging with shallow pulls. Or maybe my hand was too close to my body where it should be approximately 6-8 inches away from the body as it pulls down the side?


    Thanks!!
    Last edited by arrieros; January 14th, 2018 at 05:10 PM.

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    Very Active Member Swimspire's Avatar
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    Re: Video Analysis- Backstroke

    Arrieros, in looking at your stroke from the underwater view, you have a great backstroke overall. In terms of your pull, the structure of the right arm is great - it's the left arm that needs a bit of work. Your left arm anchors well, but pulls too far away from the body. What you will need to work on is learning to engage the left arm more - copying the structure of the right arm pull. Make sure you get a good reach before you start the catch and take advantage of your kick. The single arm drill focusing on the left arm is the best for developing a good overall pull and finish.

    This is also a great drill for developing the early vertical forearm (in both backstroke and freestyle - backstroke starts at 1:36).




    Additionally, I notice that your left arm is crossing over slightly upon entry. Make sure your hand entry is in line with your shoulder. Also, keep working on the kick - I can see an exaggerated knee bend from your left leg.

    Good luck and keep swimming!


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    Re: Video Analysis- Backstroke

    Quote Originally Posted by Swimspire View Post
    Arrieros, in looking at your stroke from the underwater view, you have a great backstroke overall. In terms of your pull, the structure of the right arm is great - it's the left arm that needs a bit of work. Your left arm anchors well, but pulls too far away from the body. What you will need to work on is learning to engage the left arm more - copying the structure of the right arm pull. Make sure you get a good reach before you start the catch and take advantage of your kick. The single arm drill focusing on the left arm is the best for developing a good overall pull and finish.

    This is also a great drill for developing the early vertical forearm (in both backstroke and freestyle - backstroke starts at 1:36).




    Additionally, I notice that your left arm is crossing over slightly upon entry. Make sure your hand entry is in line with your shoulder. Also, keep working on the kick - I can see an exaggerated knee bend from your left leg.

    Good luck and keep swimming!

    That was a great observation - I will definitely work on all these things.

    Thanks Julia

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    Re: Video Analysis- Backstroke

    Quote Originally Posted by arrieros View Post
    That was a great observation - I will definitely work on all these things.

    Thanks Julia

    The Race Club has good videos and you can follow them ... run by 3 time Olympian Gary Hall
    http://theraceclub.com/videos/fast-b...wim-technique/

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    Re: Video Analysis- Backstroke

    Noticed in the videos you have a potentially propulsive kick

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