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Thread: Long Distance Event Training

  1. #1
    Very Active Member Celestial's Avatar
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    Long Distance Event Training

    I have entered the Swim Around Lido Key event for April 14th. It is about a 7mile swim. The longest Iíve done previous is 3 miles, and thatís sorta like a long workout - took me 74 minutes. Seven miles is a bit longer and Iím wishing for some friendly advice.

    Would anyone like to help me in my training for this? Iím wondering about the last week, or ďtaper weekĒ.


    I donít think I should cut back to much less than 5-6000/day, but maybe Iím wrong here. Iím getting in 8-10,000 on Saturdays now, and have to limit my weekday swims to 5-6000 as it is. I just figure I want to be rested, but donít want to over do the resting.

    Thanks in advance!

  2. #2
    Active Member airborne18th's Avatar
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    Re: Long Distance Event Training

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestial View Post
    I have entered the Swim Around Lido Key event for April 14th. It is about a 7mile swim. The longest Iíve done previous is 3 miles, and thatís sorta like a long workout - took me 74 minutes. Seven miles is a bit longer and Iím wishing for some friendly advice.

    Would anyone like to help me in my training for this? Iím wondering about the last week, or ďtaper weekĒ.


    I donít think I should cut back to much less than 5-6000/day, but maybe Iím wrong here. Iím getting in 8-10,000 on Saturdays now, and have to limit my weekday swims to 5-6000 as it is. I just figure I want to be rested, but donít want to over do the resting.

    Thanks in advance!
    The taper is a function of many things.. but how long your training has been going is a big factor. Also your personal conditioning is a factor. If you have been training for a few months.. daily, then you have more than a taper week.. But you should decrease both the volume and intensity of training steadily over a 2 week period.. and yes you should be well under 5-6000 the week before the race.

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    Re: Long Distance Event Training

    this is were experience
    a lot of experience
    comes into play
    as said, it all depends on your leadup
    and then there is you.

    look at how many didnt go there seed times in the 1650 at the ncaa champs (both mens and womens)

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    Re: Long Distance Event Training

    Hi Celestial -

    Good Luck and hope for calm conditions for the swim. You have only 2+ weeks to go. IMO, your current volume is ok and, even if it wasn't, it does not sound like you can increase it anyway, so don't change that aspect. You don't indicate the intensity level of your swims though which is the key part of any taper program - backing down on the intensity, so the body can rest. You also did not indicate if the practices include long, non-stop swims.

    Having done a few swims of this length, this is what I would suggest for the next 2+ weeks:

    a) Today - April 6: Keep the same training routine you have been doing. If you have not been doing any 1-2 hour non-stop swims, I would make 2-3 of these practices that kind of thing.

    b) April 7: don't do 8-10,000 on this Saturday. Maybe drop back to 5-6,000.

    c) April 8 - 11: I suggest keeping the volume about where you are at. if you have been doing some intensity training, reduce that amount by 50%. I would swim so your heart rate is in the "comfortable" aerobic zone - a pace you can maintain "forever."

    d) April 12-13: Keep your volume up and only 800-1000 yards that is intense (less if you have not been doing that much). Use these two days to try the suit and googles you plan to use.

    If you are wearing a wetsuit, chafing could be an issue (back of your neck), so you will want to have Glide or another equally nice lubricant. If you are not wearing a wetsuit, same thing applies to shoulder straps and suit underarm sections.

    For swims like this, I never wanted to drop the volume like I would for pool races. BUT, I did drop the intensity and focused on smooth swimming. It is NOT the volume that will make you tired during these 2+ weeks, it is the intensity - especially legs.

    Oh - almost forgot - if you are doing weights, dryland, bicycling, etc., cut all of that out for the final week. If your legs feel really tired from dryland/bicycling, you can drop that stuff even now. It takes legs a long time to recover from hard non-swim training.

    Hope this helps.

    Paul

  5. #5
    Very Active Member Celestial's Avatar
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    Re: Long Distance Event Training

    Paul, VERY helpful. Much of my workouts since, I donít know, forever, includes hard intervals & long distances. I helped a friend train for the Ultraman (Jamie Harris) and she won the swim and womenís overall, and I am faster than her, but I did everything she did. Last Saturday about 6500 of my 8000 was pretty high quality. But no 2 hour straight swims. I will be (was planning on it anyway) doing a 3 hour fairly solid straight swim on the 31st (I have to jump out of the SCY pool into the LCM pool after one hour because the FSU team has the LCM pool until 10am. I will most certainly incorporate your advice, and I appreciate you more than you know!
    Last edited by Celestial; March 29th, 2018 at 01:40 PM.

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    Very Active Member Celestial's Avatar
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    Re: Long Distance Event Training

    Airborne, Thank you, good advice. Iím afraid to go below 4000 though.

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    Very Active Member Celestial's Avatar
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    Re: Long Distance Event Training

    Sunruh, you are right, and I donít have much experience, which is why I asked for advice!!!

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    Active Member airborne18th's Avatar
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    Re: Long Distance Event Training

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestial View Post
    Airborne, Thank you, good advice. Iím afraid to go below 4000 though.
    Research on tapering is all over the place, but most of it indicates 40-60% drop in volume is the sweet spot.. But the problem with most of the research is that it is on high performance athletes, so it is a fuzzy area when it comes to the average person, and masters for that matter.

    One piece of research that might be helpful is that body composition plays a part in it.. and women generally require less taper than men. ( less muscle mass )

    What you should do is document whatever you do for this race. and next time you at least can look back and change your strategy. It will not be easy because you are doing an open water event, and there are many variables that could impact performance on race day..

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    Re: Long Distance Event Training

    Thanks for the additional info.

    If it were me, I would keep your volume where it is - except for April 7. Assuming your weekday volume is about 3500 high quality out of 5,000, I would maintain that % of quality swimming until April 4-7. At that point, I would reduce the amount of high quality by about 300-400/day until you are at 1500 out of 5,000.

    I suspect you are like me in that I enjoy training hard and the idea of tapering volume AND intensity is mentally hard. I have tried long tapers and short drop-dead tapers. I find that keeping the volume up with reduced intensity works very well for open water swims.

    Good Luck!

    Paul

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    Very Active Member Sojerz's Avatar
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    Re: Long Distance Event Training

    I think Windrath and Airborne have provided good suggestions.

    I'm wondering how you feel at the end of a week of training heading into Monday's practice after your rest day (Sunday)? Do you feel fully recovered from the work during the previous week? The Sundays and nights when you rest are small tapers during which your body makes partial (daily and weekly) adaptations to the work. But now comes the big reward!

    It seems to me that your objective at this point is to become fully rested before the race in order to take the most advantage of the work you've done, and become "more and more" rested each day. Eat right to fuel the adaptation and get the most out of it. You can make daily judgments and adjustments to the suggestions above, depending on how rested you feel you are becoming.

    Take care and wishing you the best race possible, Celeste. Looking forward to hearing how it went.
    Some guys they just give up living and start dying little by little, piece by piece. Some guys come home from work and wash up and go raciní in the street. (Bruce Springsteen, 1978)

  11. #11
    Very Active Member Celestial's Avatar
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    Re: Long Distance Event Training

    Thank you everyone, Paul, Bill, . I've been "absent" from the forums for a couple of years, and this was a wonderful welcome back!! I will definitely be taking notes on what I do for "next time" and following your advice. I'll sign off now for a couple of weeks, and then let you know how I did (or died - how do you spell that?).

  12. #12
    Very Active Member Celestial's Avatar
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    Re: Long Distance Event Training

    So I finished the swim. It was ugly, lots of chop, and lots of vomiting by myself, which ended up causing me to disqualify myself, as I stood up on the bottom during a couple of my vomiting sessions. But it is done. My training, thanks to you guys, was spot on, and I was in about 6th place (per my kayaker) before I got sick. Didnít finish so well, but I donít know how to train for unexpected ingestion of massive amounts of salt water. It is what it is. I can now officially check that one off my bucket list, and go forward from here. Maybe a straight stretch down the beach, to avoid so much chop from here on, as Iíve always had a ďdelicateĒ stomach. Thanks again for the great advice, guys!

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    Re: Long Distance Event Training

    Celestial -

    Congrats on finishing although it was not the swim you wanted it to be. One of the aspects of open water swimming that coaches and articles do not address is vomiting. It is hard on your body and when salt water is involved, just plain ugly (as you described). BUT, it is gonna happen to everyone at some time in a race.

    FWIW - I find swimming along the shore to be worse - due to breaking waves.

    PW

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    Very Active Member flystorms's Avatar
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    Re: Long Distance Event Training

    Oh I'm so sorry you had a bad experience, but remember, every event is a learning experience. Hopefully your next one will be a bit better and more fun, for sure.

    Two suggestions... bring candied ginger (Penzay's spices carries it) or ginger ale to help sooth the belly. And see if you may be swallowing water while you swim. In chop, it can't always be helped, but maybe see if you're blowing out through your nose underwater instead of with your mouth. You may be sucking in more than you realize.
    "If your ship doesn't come in, swim out to meet it." - Jonathan Winters, actor and comedian

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    Re: Long Distance Event Training

    Quote Originally Posted by Windrath View Post
    One of the aspects of open water swimming that coaches and articles do not address is vomiting.
    I got a lot of help with this on the Marathon Swimming Forum (http://marathonswimmers.org/forum/). There can be different reasons, and the solution depends on what caused it (sea sickness, ingesting too much food or liquid feeds, swallowing salt water). Some OW swimmers do seem more prone to it than others, and learn to "feed the fish" without even stopping. It's not as hard as it sounds, unless the retching is particularly violent.

    Congratulations on finishing anyway, Celestial!

    "Retch and Vomit":
    http://marathonswimmers.org/forum/di.../comment/3741/

    "Dealing with Sea Sickness":
    http://marathonswimmers.org/forum/di.../comment/2473/
    Life begins at the end of your comfort zone. --Neale Donald Walsch

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    Very Active Member Sojerz's Avatar
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    Re: Long Distance Event Training

    I've generally not had a problem with swims of 1 to 2+ miles from swallowing salt water. I don't get sea sick easily, but because you are immediately on top of rocking and rolling surf, I think that can happen pretty easily as there is no steady horizon - easier than in a boat where you can sight on the steady horizon.

    My last Atlantic City swim was 1.5 miles, some wind and swell in the ocean, and I was not feeling great at the end. I swallowed my fair share of water and was more worried about diarrhea after getting out, but think the "sick" feeling was the beginning of motion sickness.

    Check out the links from Janswim. I've taken dramamine when fishing and have never had a motion sickness problem when others who didn't take it were sick in less than an hour.

    Way to hang in there, Celeste - now that you've done the training, go back after an OW swim and hope for a calmer day.

    I'm a little surprised they DQd you for standing. Even in a pool meet swimming freestyle, I think you can stand on the bottom as long as you don't attempt to gain any competitive advantage.
    Last edited by Sojerz; April 16th, 2018 at 04:41 PM.
    Some guys they just give up living and start dying little by little, piece by piece. Some guys come home from work and wash up and go raciní in the street. (Bruce Springsteen, 1978)

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