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Thread: tricep fatigue

  1. #21
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    Re: tricep fatigue

    miklcct,

    This last post is very helpful on several different levels.

    a) First: I get that you don't believe you are an "Arnie." However, when I read the description and watched the videos, an "arnie" or maybe "overglider" is what I would have guessed your style is. To my eyes, the primary characteristic of these styles is the lack of body balance in the water: feet are low, hips are too high, pull is with a straight arm or severely bent elbow, kick is from the knee. These styles suggest a swimmer trying to swim on top of the water instead of through it.

    b) Second: Using a 6 beat kick does not mean you have to go fast. A 6 beat kick simply means the number of kicks per 2 arm pulls. If your legs are getting that tired from 6 beat kicking, you need to change your technique.

    In a post in January 2018 (Face Down Floating), I showed one way to get comfortable with body balance. I suggest you find that post and see if you can float like the video. I also call it "streamline floating." If you find this hard to do, I encourage you to spend the time to figure it out - even at the expense of less laps. A favorite saying of mine is "You cannot train enough to overcome inefficient technique."

    Good Luck

  2. #22
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    Re: tricep fatigue

    Sorry for my misunderstanding. I just realised that the place of my fatigue is called deltoids, but rather triceps.

    I watched 2 YouTube videos last night, and returned to the pool this morning.

    DON'T ENTER HERE:
    THIS Is Why It's So Hard To Get A High Elbow Catch!:

    Therefore I mainly focused on the entry and shoulder position today. However, during that, I observed the following:

    • When I tried to swim fast, I felt good in my stroke, and got 47 seconds / 54 strokes, but that was not sustainable over 50 m.
    • I tried to reduce the stroke rate while keeping the form, and got 52 seconds / 54 strokes, but my deltoids got fatigued before 100 m.
    • I tried to reduce the stroke rate further, but this time I could no longer keep the good entry position. When I slowed down (to less than 60 strokes per minute) and tried to reach forward I lost my balance, which did not occur at (unsustainable) higher speed. Therefore I couldn't squeeze down my stroke per length.


    When I tried to "enter at the appropriate position" and do the high elbow catch, I had to use my deltoids so much that they became fatigued before 100 m, and afterwards, my stroke broke down horribly because I couldn't do the proper reach, wasting precious stroke length, explaining the increase in stroke per length and subsequently decrease in speed until it reached somewhere around 2'5" - 2'8" / 100 m for continuous long swimming. When I tried to slow down, I lost my balance, explaining the "wide open" legs symptom. (that's why on Monday the coach attempted to make me try higher stroke rate - but the problem was that, it wasn't sustainable over 100 m!)

    For your reference, my running is about 29' / 6 km, but I don't know if there is any relationship between run fitness and swim fitness.

    P.S. My membership includes access to the gym room but I haven't used it since 4 years ago, only used the pool afterwards. Should I get some numbers inside the gym room to see if there is any limitation in my body?

    P.S. Using the revised keywords to search again, I find something more worrying from other forums:

    https://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/?post=5951846

    I agree with this.

    Coaches make too much out of trying to conceptualize and mimic an EVF, without realizing that there is NO way to do a great EVF (like the pros) without the arm power and endurance to maintain it.


    When you see swimmers with dropped elbows that slip in the water, it is NOT because they are just 'doing it wrong' - it's because they simply don't have the arm power to maintain a good EVF and thus their body naturally seeks out motion that reduces the resistance to their arm as they execute the pull.


    This is probably THE most critical aspect of EVF (having the power to actually execute it), far, far and above the knowledge of what it 'should' look like, and is the dominant reason why countless frustrated triathletes mistakenly believe they can just practice the EVF motion with a ball on land and then wonder why it doesn't ever look like that the moment they're in the water.



    In fact, if you look at fast-improving youth swimmers that haven't even had any real swim coaching on technique, you'll notice that they naturally adopt better and better EVF as they get faster and faster, even without a coach selectively fixing their form. Same thing happened to me - I don't have remotely a 'pro' EVF, but my EVF is much, much better now at 1:20-5 swim paces than it was at 1:50-2:00 swim paces, and it has nothing to do with me doing any special technique practice. I'd actually say the technical practice (stuff like moving the arm over the ball on ground and using a resistance band on land as a lot of videos show) were completely useless in comparison to actually swimming a lot more, harder, in terms of improving EVF.

    Last edited by miklcct; November 7th, 2018 at 11:57 PM.

  3. #23
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    Re: tricep fatigue

    Miklcct,

    Thanks for the additional information and clarification. As mentioned early in this thread, a video is essential for any of us to offer suggestions.

    Deltoids are pretty small muscles and not prime movers for any of the swimming strokes. They aid in arm recovery - not in propulsion. IMO, if your deltoids are fatiguing that much, it is technique issue again - not a strength issue.

    Again, IMO, EVF is an aspect of freestyle technigue that is more advanced than you are ready to tackle. In fact, EVF is a challenge for even very advanced swimmers. To do properly, it requires a very strong kick or very strong, flexible shoulders. Personally, I do not advocate EVF for most swimmers because they lack the kick power and shoulder flexibility. A deeper pull that enables the "reach over a barrel" concept works for 99% of the swimmers out there.

    Since you have watched the Swim Smooth videos, their example of a smooth swimmer is a pretty good one to emulate. This guy is more a reach over a barrel guy. If you want one really good example of EVF, watch video of Ian Thorpe.

    Can't help any more with video.

    Good Luck.

  4. #24
    Very Active Member Swimspire's Avatar
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    Re: tricep fatigue

    Here's a drill that can help with the early vertical forearm aspect of the pull:



    It allows you to develop balance and strength on both sides of the body and also can work the kick, depending upon the approach you take. Additionally, another great part about this drill is that it allows you to see what you are doing and make adjustments to perform the drill properly.

    Good luck!

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