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Thread: records question

  1. #1
    Very Active Member Allen Stark's Avatar
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    records question

    If two swimmers break the National Record in a race, do they both get credit for breaking the record, or only the one who finished first? I know for World Records it is only the one who finishes first, but I am not sure for USMS records.
    "To strive,to seek,to find,and not to yield" Tennyson
    Allen

  2. #2
    Moderator Rob Copeland's Avatar
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    Re: records question

    Both swimmers are "credited" with breaking the record.However, only the person with the fastest official time shall be designated as setting a USMS record; provided the appropriate paper work is filed.

    If the swims are in different heats, with the slower record in the earlier heat, then paperwork can be filed for both swimmers. But only the winner will be listed as the record holder.
    The opinions expressed in the above post are mine and not those of U.S. Masters Swimming.

  3. #3
    Very Active Member ForceDJ's Avatar
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    Re: records question

    I guess this may just be my opinion. But as I see it, the instant that the winner of the event touches the wall in their record-breaking performance, their performance/time becomes the new record/time (barring DQ, drug testing, ratification, etc). Regardless of their time, the second place finisher is not a record breaker...just second on the list. Of course if it's something like a multi-national event and the winner breaks whatever multi-national record, and the second place (or subsequent) finisher breaks their country's national record.

    Dan

  4. #4
    Very Active Member orca1946's Avatar
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    Re: records question

    Only the fastest and latest will be the record holder.

  5. #5
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    Re: records question

    Quote Originally Posted by ForceDJ View Post
    I guess this may just be my opinion. But as I see it, the instant that the winner of the event touches the wall in their record-breaking performance, their performance/time becomes the new record/time...
    Dan
    I would certainly agree. You have to win to break the record. If you touch the wall second, there is already a new record, albeit one that is extremely new, and you didn't break that new one because you swam slower than the person who holds it. (Caveats about DQ etc. as above of course.)

    Taking this to the logical extreme, let's suppose two meets are going on in different cities. You and your rival both swim faster than a record that stood as of the start of the day, but do so in different heats in different meets. There are 3 scenarios:
    1) You go first. Your rival swims later and swims faster than the old record but not faster than you. You now are the record holder and your rival never was.
    2) You go second and swim slower than you rival. Your rival is the new record holder and you ever were,
    3) You go second and swim faster than your rival. Your rival was the record holder immediately upon completion of his/her swim, but you became the new record holder upon completion of your swim. Your rival didn't hold the record very long, but was, briefly, the record holder.

  6. #6
    Very Active Member Redbird Alum's Avatar
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    Re: records question

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl_S View Post
    ...

    3) You go second and swim faster than your rival. Your rival was the record holder immediately upon completion of his/her swim, but you became the new record holder upon completion of your swim. Your rival didn't hold the record very long, but was, briefly, the record holder.
    I am a victim of just this scenario... only it happened in the same meet, different heats. I was the "rival", however and my school record only held for 10 minutes! Still... fun while it lasted!


  7. #7
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    Re: records question

    Allen asked a good question. For records, USMS tracks the record holders at the time of swim. So swimmers are only "credited" with breaking the record if they actually break whatever is the current record.
    So if two swimmers break the record in the same heat of a meet, then ForceDJ is correct that whoever touches first is the only record breaker and the only one "credited" with the record.
    If the swims are done in different heats, then this can happen:
    the swimmer in the earlier heat breaks the record, and the swimmer in the later heat also breaks the record. Who gets the record?
    It depends on their times and the timing of them.
    1) if the later swimmer did NOT go faster than the earlier swimmer, only the early swimmer gets the record.
    2) if the later swimmer went faster than the earlier swimmer, they both get credited with a record, but only the later/faster swimmer's record is "current"
    You can see the progression of records on the website by clicking the + sign next to any record holder that has one.

    Mary Beth

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