Has anyone had stem cell therapy for spine osteoarthritis?

[ElaineK]

Has anyone had stem cell therapy for osteoarthritis of the spine or know anybody who has had this procedure? What were the results? Would you recommend it?

Thanks!

[Sumorunner]

I'd certainly like to know as well. My condition is named spondylolisthesis which is a vertebra shifted relative to the ones above and below. It pinches nerves and sends the pain elsewhere, not in the back. The impact of running for 40+ years caused it, but swimming does not hurt at all. However, I'd sure like to be able to do both if possible. Surgery is out of the question, but if there's another magic pill, bring it on.

[swoomer]

Check out the ELDOA concept and Dr. Guy Voyer. It is a way to open, strengthen, and stabilize the spine. You need a trained, certified practitioner and they are few and far between.

[ElaineK]

Check out the ELDOA concept and Dr. Guy Voyer. It is a way to open, strengthen, and stabilize the spine. You need a trained, certified practitioner and they are few and far between.

Thanks, Swoomer; but I am specifically looking to connect with somebody who has had stem cell therapy.

[Carol J.]

Hi, Elaine,

I'm concerned about your interest in stem cell therapy for spine osteoarthritis, and wonder if you have gone ahead with any treatments. Before undergoing any such procedures, please do a thorough investigation. By that I mean you should look at people who say positive as well as negative things about the procedures, and take into account that many of the people urging you to doing this may well be selling stem cell treatments, and remember that testimonials are worthless as evidence. What we need are studies, preferably double-blind, placebo controlled. Enrolling in such a study should be free, so if you are being asked to pay, then you are not in a trial, and the treatment should be proven.

I urge you to read the website sciencebasedmedicine.org. If you type in "stem cells" into the search box, you will get results that will have good information from doctors who are concerned by all the hype and promotion. Don't let anyone tell you that there are no adverse effects. If stem cells can become any kind of tissue, they can become cancer. Some patients who thought they were in a clinical trial (they weren't) are now blind when stem cells were injected into both eyes in an attempt to fix their macular degeneration. Another patient at a different clinic got stem cells to help with back problems and now has an invasive growth in that area which cannot be surgically removed. These are unproven, unregulated procedures. The FDA is looking into it, but since it's a new area of medicine the interpretation is that if they cells are removed from your own body and not modified, it is not a drug, and they cannot take action unless harm is done.

I spoke with a chiropractic clinic that offers stem cell injections for joint osteoarthritis; they have a DO on staff who does the injections. They don't really know what they are injecting, made extravagant and unsupported claims for the treatment, and charged a lot. In the end, I didn't go there. As bad as my pain is, it could get significantly worse, and there's no evidence that it would improve my problems. I'd be especially cautious about doing anything to your back. Please look at the issue logically and rationally, and don't just believe the promises made by people who are trying to sell you something. Good luck and I hope this helps you make a healthy decision.

[ElaineK]

Thanks for your input, Carol. I appreciate the information. I was looking at umbilical cord (Wharton's Jelly) stem cell therapy for the cervical spine at C5-C6 provided by: http://www.ssci.life/how-it-works/. The stem cells they used are FDA approved.

I agree with you about testimonials, because the placebo effect can be very powerful for some people. Unfortunately, there aren't enough published studies out there showing results. Currently, clinical trials are being done on knees (meniscus tears); however, I have been unable to find anything on my specific problem.

[Carol J.]

Thanks for considering what I wrote. I just want you to be cautious, because there can be serious downsides to this. Since it's still experimental, no one should be charging you for it, and you ought to be in a real clinical trial--which means you shouldn't be charged for the procedure. Introducing cells from another source) not from your own body, is fraught with risk, and with low potential for helping you. FDA approval doesn't really mean anything here; the cells can't be assured to become what you want, and could induce foreign growths into your body which may not be surgically removable. As in the Jim Gass case, they could make your pain and function worse. I wish you all the best; I have back pain, too, and wish there were a solution, but I don't want to pay money to irresponsible people who make untrue claims about their treatments, and I'm concerned about the side effects making me far worse than I am. Good luck. Most pain isn't consistent: it comes and goes unpredictably over time, so enjoy the good times when you have them and remember it can get better.

[Carol J.]

Oh, wow, I just looked at your link. That place is rife with quackery: IV vitamins, hyperbaric chamber, intelligent light therapy, pulsed electromagnetic field therapy. I'd run, not walk, away from that place. They are advertising "treatments" that have been thoroughly discredited, which means their ethics are highly questionable.

As you realize, there aren't enough published studies about these procedures, so responsible practitioners don't offer them. There is little likelihood they will help you, and a possibility that they will harm you. If there is no upside, any possible risk is unacceptable; that certainly applies here. Happy stories from people who sell the procedure are worthless. I hope you won't gamble your health on this.

[ElaineK]

Oh, wow, I just looked at your link. That place is rife with quackery: IV vitamins, hyperbaric chamber, intelligent light therapy, pulsed electromagnetic field therapy. I'd run, not walk, away from that place. They are advertising "treatments" that have been thoroughly discredited, which means their ethics are highly questionable.

Does anyone from the medical community care to weigh in on this? Specifically, do you agree with Carol's assertion above? According to studies published here, she is incorrect in stating those treatments have been "thoroughly discredited." I have done research in the past (not for my osteoarthritis) on hyperbaric chambers and PEMF (also BEMER), and there is plenty of proof that they have not been "thoroughly discredited."

As for Wharton's Jelly stem cell therapy, the jury is still out. Studies are currently being conducted with good results; however, there still isn't enough out there to convince me either way.

Doctors, what do you think?

[orca1946]

I an looking into it for my knees. Friends in the medical field tell me research is ongoing in this area.
Insurance does not pay for it in most cases.

[orca1946]

Yesterday, I got a Cortisone shot for my left knee that is very arthritic, that will temporarily take the pain away.
I will look into a 4 shot sequence after a "walking/hiking vacation that is upcoming.

[MickYoung]

Does anyone from the medical community care to weigh in on this?

Doctors, what do you think?

As a retired medical statistician and former anesthesia technician, I am only peripherally part of the medical community. I am not a doctor, although I played one as a child.

A quick net search on "Southern Stem Cell Institue" shows the Better Business Bureau gives SSCI an A+ rating
https://www.bbb.org/us/ga/atlanta/pr...-0443-28049754
That reassuring. But what does the BBB know about medicine?

The search also brings up a Consumer Report, which doesn't seem to mention SSCI, but suggests caution
https://www.consumerreports.org/medi...-cell-therapy/

And it brings up this
https://regenexx.com/blog/southern-s...titute-review/

That's pretty extreme. I can say that either Regenexx and Chris Centeno, MD are foolishly malicious and looking for a lawsuit, or Carol is correct.

So, to paraphrase Groucho Marx, an renowned expert in many fields: Who ya gonna believe? Some ignorant joker such as myself who thinks google makes him an eXpErT? Or your own lying eyes?

[orca1946]

I will hold off on "cures" that may or may not help at a high $$$$ amount.

[ElaineK]

And it brings up this
https://regenexx.com/blog/southern-s...titute-review/

Thanks for the link to this blog post, Mick. It was a real eye-opener! Like everything else in the confusing world of medicine (and all things related), who and what do you believe? There is so much conflicting information (and false "information") out there that I don't know what to think. All I know is that my cervical spine is a mess, and it keeps getting worse. Physical therapy and the exercises I do each day for my neck no longer help like they used to. The last thing I want to do is undergo another surgery (been there, done that for my back, shoulder, and hip; non-swimming related). I was hoping this would be a viable option, but the red flags are waving.

[MickYoung]

Elain, Thx for listening - I was afraid my "humor" might have been too much.

While looking this up, I personally decided NOT to get platelet-enhanced plasma injections for my shoulders.

Good luck with your spine.

[ElaineK]

Elain, Thx for listening - I was afraid my "humor" might have been too much.

While looking this up, I personally decided NOT to get platelet-enhanced plasma injections for my shoulders.

Good luck with your spine.

Thanks, Mick. Good luck with your shoulders!

[MickYoung]

I decided to follow up on this. I dropped the Atlanta BBB the link to Centeno's blog and left a comment of the blog with a link to this thread. Elaine, maybe you should contact someone like Centeno before giving up entirely on stem cell therapy. Check him out on the 'net first , of course. I haven't done that. This could be pot/kettle.

[ElaineK]

I decided to follow up on this. I dropped the Atlanta BBB the link to Centeno's blog and left a comment of the blog with a link to this thread. Elaine, maybe you should contact someone like Centeno before giving up entirely on stem cell therapy. Check him out on the 'net first , of course. I haven't done that. This could be pot/kettle.

I haven't given up on stem cell therapy; I'm just trying to sort through the information to determine whether it's the best option for my particular problem. To the say the least, it has been a challenge!

[katlane]

Never underestimate the power of swimming for pain relief. At 65 I began swimming 2 times a day, an hour each, for pain relief. I have a cyst on my siciatic nerve, osteoarthritis, bilateral radiopathey and whatever. It worked. Each swim gave me 4 to 8 hours of pain relief. After 2 years I can skip a swim without pain. Not sure how long I can go without swimming. Only side effect, hard to get enough sleep and work and get life chores done.

[ElaineK]

Never underestimate the power of swimming for pain relief. At 65 I began swimming 2 times a day, an hour each, for pain relief. I have a cyst on my siciatic nerve, osteoarthritis, bilateral radiopathey and whatever. It worked. Each swim gave me 4 to 8 hours of pain relief. After 2 years I can skip a swim without pain. Not sure how long I can go without swimming. Only side effect, hard to get enough sleep and work and get life chores done.

I'm glad swimming has been such a powerful pain reliever for you. If it weren't for swimming, yoga, Theraband PT exercises, other strengthening exercises, and foam roller, I am sure I would be in much more pain than I am now. Unfortunately, my 2-1/2 hours per day of all of the above isn't enough to solve every issue I am dealing with in my cervical spine. (Neither is everything else I am doing lifestyle-related.) I am at the end of the line as far as appropriate options go, but I want to avoid undergoing another surgery.