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Thread: 25 yards and 25 meters - where are we going with this ?

  1. #21
    Moderator Rob Copeland's Avatar
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    Re: 25 yards and 25 meters - where are we going with this ?

    Quote Originally Posted by miklcct View Post
    If the U.S. abandoned the imperial system like the rest of the world did, this madness wouldn't happen.

    In the rest of the world, when we say 100 race it is unambiguously 100 m race, but in the U.S. we need to check the pool used is in yards or meters first!
    True, but then 90% of our pools couldn't be used for swim meets.
    The opinions expressed in the above post are mine and not those of U.S. Masters Swimming.

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    Very Active Member JPEnge's Avatar
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    Re: 25 yards and 25 meters - where are we going with this ?

    Quote Originally Posted by miklcct View Post
    If the U.S. abandoned the imperial system like the rest of the world did, this madness wouldn't happen.

    In the rest of the world, when we say 100 race it is unambiguously 100 m race, but in the U.S. we need to check the pool used is in yards or meters first!
    It's not really unambiguous, because it could be a short course 100m or a long course 100m, and there are definite differences time-wise between the two.

    Pretty decent rule of thumb for non-international level swimmers in the US: If a meet is done in the summer, it's in a long course 50m pool. If it's done in the fall/winter/spring, it's in a short course 25y pool. This holds true for at least 90% of domestic meets.
    400 IMer/200 backstroker in another life, now sprinter/breaststroker... Yeah, I don't know how that happened either!

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    Re: 25 yards and 25 meters - where are we going with this ?

    Here in the mid-Atlantic states, there are a lot of older non-regulation pools.
    There are quite a few 33-yard pools, often at summer swim clubs.
    There are a number of 55-yard pools. UPenn has one for example. I think the idea behind these is that a 1650 is 30 lengths, making it analogous to a LCM 1500.
    Some summer league teams swim in SCM pools.
    There is a 49-yard pool not far from my home.

    In the mid-west, some older HS pools are 20-yards. (I seem to remember a news story from a year or two back about some college coach who put the bulkhead at 20 yards for a meet so they could have fun breaking a lot of very old records set in 20 yard pools.)

    While I understand the appeal of having standardized pools for record-keeping and direct comparison, I think it would be great fun if swim meets were held in these non-standard pools. It would add variety and shift the emphasis from times more towards meet strategy and racing. Wouldn't an 80 IM or 132 IM be fun?! How about sprint races in a 15-yard diving well? Us slow-twitch folks wouldn't be rushing to sign up, but I bet they would be quite popular with the drop dead sprinters. I know a local coach had blocks set up in the diving well to practice starts and for sprint training. (ULTRA usrpt!) The term "pool record" would take on a new significance.

  4. #24
    Moderator Rob Copeland's Avatar
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    Re: 25 yards and 25 meters - where are we going with this ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl_S View Post
    In the mid-west, some older HS pools are 20-yards. ...
    The good old days. IN High school our home pool was a 5 lane 20 yard tank. I think our 160 Medley Relay times were almost as fast as the 200 MR's of today. The sprinters in the 60 free has a tougher time. And there were always broken ceiling tiles from divers who got a little too much spring in their step.
    The opinions expressed in the above post are mine and not those of U.S. Masters Swimming.

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    Very Active Member Glenn's Avatar
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    Re: 25 yards and 25 meters - where are we going with this ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Copeland View Post
    The good old days. IN High school our home pool was a 5 lane 20 yard tank. I think our 160 Medley Relay times were almost as fast as the 200 MR's of today. The sprinters in the 60 free has a tougher time. And there were always broken ceiling tiles from divers who got a little too much spring in their step.

    Lucky you! We had four lanes, no lane lines, no blocks...and of course no goggles. Could hardly see the bus coming after practice on my way home as my eyes hurt so much from the chlorine.
    Glenn Gruber

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    Very Active Member ForceDJ's Avatar
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    Re: 25 yards and 25 meters - where are we going with this ?

    Until just a handful of years ago, the pool on the Newport, RI Navy base where I swim was a 6x35-yard lap pool. (We now have a nice, new 6x25m pool.) At one time there were actually two 35-yard pools on the base. For years I tried to ascertain why in the world the Navy installed these odd distance pools. No good answers. Then, I encountered another couple of 35-yard pools on the Army base at Fort Meade Maryland. People there told me they knew of other military installations with 35-yard pools as well. There at Ft. Meade, they had cleverly set jersey barriers in the shallow end to make 25m lap lanes...which also created a good sized area for the kiddos to play in. All these pools were built in the WWII era. But the people at Ft. Meade gave me a good answer as to why the military built these odd-length pools. Initially, it was simply so that outside entities wouldn't come to them asking to use the pool for swim meets...since events swam in the odd-length pools couldn't be recognized for records, etc. That didn't work for long. By the time I got stationed on the Navy base here in Newport in 1988, when they still had only the 35-yard pools, the base hosted a youth club team, and a USMS group. Good enough for workout/practice. Still not OK for meets.


    Dan

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    Moderator Rob Copeland's Avatar
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    Re: 25 yards and 25 meters - where are we going with this ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn View Post
    Lucky you! We had four lanes, no lane lines, no blocks...and of course no goggles. Could hardly see the bus coming after practice on my way home as my eyes hurt so much from the chlorine.
    And it was uphill both ways...
    The opinions expressed in the above post are mine and not those of U.S. Masters Swimming.

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    Very Active Member knelson's Avatar
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    Re: 25 yards and 25 meters - where are we going with this ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn View Post
    Lucky you! We had four lanes, no lane lines, no blocks...and of course no goggles. Could hardly see the bus coming after practice on my way home as my eyes hurt so much from the chlorine.
    I never swam in the pre-goggle era, but my high school's pool did have just four lanes. We also had the added fun of having the diving team practice at the same time as the swim team. Luckily I always swam in a wall lane and didn't have to worry about being dived on!

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    Re: 25 yards and 25 meters - where are we going with this ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ForceDJ View Post
    ... Still not OK for meets.
    but should be.

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    Re: 25 yards and 25 meters - where are we going with this ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Copeland View Post
    And it was uphill both ways...
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VKHFZBUTA4k
    M-50m, T-200m, W-800m, T-25m, F-100m, S-400m, S-1600m.

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    Re: 25 yards and 25 meters - where are we going with this ?

    and you think those guys in the video had it bad, let me tell you.....

  12. #32
    Very Active Member Glenn's Avatar
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    Re: 25 yards and 25 meters - where are we going with this ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Copeland View Post
    And it was uphill both ways...
    You're right, how did you know that???
    Glenn Gruber

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    Re: 25 yards and 25 meters - where are we going with this ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ForceDJ View Post
    Until just a handful of years ago, the pool on the Newport, RI Navy base where I swim was a 6x35-yard lap pool. (We now have a nice, new 6x25m pool.) At one time there were actually two 35-yard pools on the base. For years I tried to ascertain why in the world the Navy installed these odd distance pools. No good answers. Then, I encountered another couple of 35-yard pools on the Army base at Fort Meade Maryland. People there told me they knew of other military installations with 35-yard pools as well. There at Ft. Meade, they had cleverly set jersey barriers in the shallow end to make 25m lap lanes...which also created a good sized area for the kiddos to play in. All these pools were built in the WWII era. But the people at Ft. Meade gave me a good answer as to why the military built these odd-length pools. Initially, it was simply so that outside entities wouldn't come to them asking to use the pool for swim meets...since events swam in the odd-length pools couldn't be recognized for records, etc. That didn't work for long. By the time I got stationed on the Navy base here in Newport in 1988, when they still had only the 35-yard pools, the base hosted a youth club team, and a USMS group. Good enough for workout/practice. Still not OK for meets.


    Dan
    So I math'd this out, just because 35 yards seemed so oddly specific that there had to be some logic for it to be on several different bases. 35 yards is 32 meters (or, 32.004 if you want to be extra precise), which divides a 1600m swim right nicely into 50 lengths. So if for some reason you want to swim a pool mile, there you are.

    Still no idea why so many older pools seem to be 20 yards, though.

  14. #34
    Very Active Member knelson's Avatar
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    Re: 25 yards and 25 meters - where are we going with this ?

    Quote Originally Posted by swim_badger View Post
    Still no idea why so many older pools seem to be 20 yards, though.
    The 440 yd free used to be an event, so that may be the reason.

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    Very Active Member ForceDJ's Avatar
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    Re: 25 yards and 25 meters - where are we going with this ?

    Quote Originally Posted by swim_badger View Post
    So I math'd this out, just because 35 yards seemed so oddly specific that there had to be some logic for it to be on several different bases. 35 yards is 32 meters (or, 32.004 if you want to be extra precise), which divides a 1600m swim right nicely into 50 lengths. So if for some reason you want to swim a pool mile, there you are.
    Oh yeah...I always figured that they made them at some useful divisor length. I'm mean using those pools for training military troops...swim tests for certain qualifications, or acceptance into a certain program requires a swim of a specific distance. Otherwise they could have made them something really odd length that doesn't multiply nicely...like 31 yards, 7.5 inches, or whatever, for example.

    Dan

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    Re: 25 yards and 25 meters - where are we going with this ?

    The Rowdy Gaines meet in Orlando in the fall
    seems to be a popular place to do 25scm races.

    I wonder if folks like the 25m events because
    they get a "gun start" for practice in a new pool ?

    Do they like it just for practice starts ?

    Do beginners like the idea of a race that has a start,
    a pull-out, a swim and a finish that is not too taxing ?

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    Re: 25 yards and 25 meters - where are we going with this ?

    I have competed in a 20 yard pool.

    It was about turns, not swimming.

    Yes, there was-when I was young -
    competition in 110, 220, 440 yards,
    which seemed to replicate the
    metric versions of those events.

    I have no memory of an 880 yard event, but why not.

    Perhaps the 20 yard pool was an alternative
    for applications with either less space, or less cost ?

    Difficult to swim a 110 yard race in a 20 yard pool,
    but they did it. Just drape the "false-start-rope"
    across at mid pool, and judge the finish by
    who touches the rope 1st.

    What was the mile equivalent of
    1500 meters, swum in a 55 yard pool ?

    55 yards x 30 = 1,650 yards ~= 1509 meters

    Was 1500 meters in a 55 yard pool another "rope finish ?"

    I once competed in a 50 meter race
    at the pool on Coronado, in California.

    My time disappointed, until I realized that
    was an old 55 yard pool,
    which is LONGER than 50 meters.

    55 yards = 50.292 meters.

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    Very Active Member Calvin S's Avatar
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    Re: 25 yards and 25 meters - where are we going with this ?

    I remember travelling to Evansville with the University of Arkansas-Little Rock team a number of years ago. They have an old six lane 25 yard pool. But what caught my eye was the tiled markings on the side of the pool: 220Y FR, 1500M FR, and I think 440Y FR. I suppose those were for rope finishes. Was that pool built 25 yards as an anomaly at the time, that they would need to include the 20 yard pool races? Always puzzled me.

  19. #39
    Very Active Member JPEnge's Avatar
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    Re: 25 yards and 25 meters - where are we going with this ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Calvin S View Post
    I remember travelling to Evansville with the University of Arkansas-Little Rock team a number of years ago. They have an old six lane 25 yard pool. But what caught my eye was the tiled markings on the side of the pool: 220Y FR, 1500M FR, and I think 440Y FR. I suppose those were for rope finishes. Was that pool built 25 yards as an anomaly at the time, that they would need to include the 20 yard pool races? Always puzzled me.
    My sister went to Evansville, I remember seeing those markings! Tangentially, they *really* need a new pool...
    400 IMer/200 backstroker in another life, now sprinter/breaststroker... Yeah, I don't know how that happened either!

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