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Thread: PEDs

  1. #21
    Very Active Member JPEnge's Avatar
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    Re: PEDs

    Quote Originally Posted by gull View Post
    A few years ago I petitioned USMS leadership to issue a simple statement discouraging the use of performance enhancing drugs, knowing that a formal drug testing program would never be instituted due to a lack of support within the organization. I was rebuffed.
    The membership body of USMS is way too... free-form?... of a group of people for that to ever work. I mean, you don't even have to qualify for the biggest meet the organization puts on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurt Dickson View Post
    Like everything in the pharmaceutical industry: drugs created in search of a non-existent disease.
    America is a country of hypochondriacs, and in that context aging is a disease with no cure... Kind of a cynical view of life that I don't subscribe to!
    400 IMer/200 backstroker in another life, now sprinter/breaststroker... Yeah, I don't know how that happened either!

  2. #22
    Very Active Member Kurt Dickson's Avatar
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    Re: PEDs

    Quote Originally Posted by JPEnge View Post
    a cynical view of life that I don't subscribe to!
    Come work with me in the ER for a day (or 25 years like me)...then you'll start subscribing....

  3. #23
    Very Active Member JPEnge's Avatar
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    Re: PEDs

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurt Dickson View Post
    Come work with me in the ER for a day (or 25 years like me)...then you'll start subscribing....
    Well, I mean, obviously in an existential sense that's what life leads to... but if you go around treating it as such, you'll spend more effort on that than actually, you know, getting s*** done!
    400 IMer/200 backstroker in another life, now sprinter/breaststroker... Yeah, I don't know how that happened either!

  4. #24
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    Re: PEDs

    Quote Originally Posted by gull View Post
    A few years ago I petitioned USMS leadership to issue a simple statement discouraging the use of performance enhancing drugs, knowing that a formal drug testing program would never be instituted due to a lack of support within the organization. I was rebuffed.
    Drugs are bad, mkay?

  5. #25
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    Re: PEDs

    Quote Originally Posted by sickfish View Post
    Drugs are bad, mkay?
    Over the years, I’ve noticed that there are a lot of elite USMS swimmers afflicted with “asthma.”

  6. #26
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    Re: PEDs

    Quote Originally Posted by swoomer View Post
    Over the years, I’ve noticed that there are a lot of elite USMS swimmers afflicted with “asthma.”
    /eyeroll

    That statement is so vague it doesn't mean anything. It's just spreading uncertainty. Trolling, basically. Do you have stats? Are you saying people are faking asthma to cheat? How many is "a lot"? What counts as "elite"? Care to name names?

  7. #27
    Very Active Member gull's Avatar
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    Re: PEDs

    Quote Originally Posted by swoomer View Post
    Over the years, I’ve noticed that there are a lot of elite USMS swimmers afflicted with “asthma.”
    Actually there is a high prevalence of airway dysfunction among elite swimmers.

  8. #28
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    Re: PEDs

    I think doping is for dopes but it is occurring. My guess is its more prevalent in the older age groups. It's a small minority but really needs to be addressed. I'm a guy who is lucky to finish in the top 50 in any given event. Who cares if I do dope, the focus should be on the top of each age group. In my age group I see some people with suspicious times. People in their 70's swimming faster than 10 years ago, people 65 swimming distance events as fast as they did in college. There's a page on this website called age grading https://www.usms.org/fitness-and-tra...ding?Oldid=143, I think it's pretty accurate in showing moderate but clear decline in performance as we age. One of the best swimmers in my opinion in masters and who has been around a long time is Jim Mc Conica. If you look at his swims over time you see the steady decline in performance that you would expect from aging. Some folks do not show the expected declines in performance and these are the folks I would be concerned with.

  9. #29
    aka Elaine-iaK & Aqua Dog ElaineK's Avatar
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    Re: PEDs

    Quote Originally Posted by humpday View Post
    I think doping is for dopes but it is occurring. My guess is its more prevalent in the older age groups. It's a small minority but really needs to be addressed. I'm a guy who is lucky to finish in the top 50 in any given event. Who cares if I do dope, the focus should be on the top of each age group. In my age group I see some people with suspicious times. People in their 70's swimming faster than 10 years ago, people 65 swimming distance events as fast as they did in college. There's a page on this website called age grading https://www.usms.org/fitness-and-tra...ding?Oldid=143, I think it's pretty accurate in showing moderate but clear decline in performance as we age. One of the best swimmers in my opinion in masters and who has been around a long time is Jim Mc Conica. If you look at his swims over time you see the steady decline in performance that you would expect from aging. Some folks do not show the expected declines in performance and these are the folks I would be concerned with.
    Hi, Stan! It's Elaine Krugman, here. I missed you at the Spring Splash! Since I had never seen "humpday" on the Forums and saw that you were from Georgia, I checked out your profile. Ha! I know that guy!! I even wrote a Swimmer Profile feature on him for the Georgia Masters Newsletter!

    Anyway, back to business, you brought up a valid point about the expected decline of aging swimmers. The only thing I can think of if an older doesn't decline is if they got some good coaching and improved their stroke technique and/or if they are training better than in their younger years. Otherwise, what gives?


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  10. #30
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    Re: PEDs

    Hi Elaine, well anything is possible but generally the folks I see with times that fall off the curve aren't people who started swimming and with good coaching and practice improved. They are generally people who have been around the sport for years and have been at the top of their age groups for a long time. A lot of these people haven't gotten faster but simply have not slowed down as much as other people in their age groups have. I guess you have to ask yourself what's the most likely explanation for this. I just don't believe people in their sixties and seventies can be swimming times that show little or no decline over decades.

  11. #31
    aka Elaine-iaK & Aqua Dog ElaineK's Avatar
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    Re: PEDs

    Quote Originally Posted by humpday View Post
    Hi Elaine, well anything is possible but generally the folks I see with times that fall off the curve aren't people who started swimming and with good coaching and practice improved. They are generally people who have been around the sport for years and have been at the top of their age groups for a long time. A lot of these people haven't gotten faster but simply have not slowed down as much as other people in their age groups have. I guess you have to ask yourself what's the most likely explanation for this. I just don't believe people in their sixties and seventies can be swimming times that show little or no decline over decades.

    I agree. I find it hard to believe, too.
    http://ElaineiaKsTravels.wordpress.com

    ~ Believing in your dreams can be far more rewarding than living by your limitations ~Karla Peterson

  12. #32
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    Re: PEDs

    I don't understand it therefore drugs

  13. #33
    Very Active Member gull's Avatar
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    Re: PEDs

    Quote Originally Posted by humpday View Post
    I just don't believe people in their sixties and seventies can be swimming times that show little or no decline over decades.
    In general, you can expect to see a decline in peak VO2 of 10% per decade. That having been said, the rate of decline can be attenuated to some degree through training.

  14. #34
    Very Active Member orca1946's Avatar
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    Re: PEDs

    As I turned 73 before Mesa, I had a tough season leading up to this meet. I was really down on myself for getting slower despite all my miles at swim practice and the 8 hours each week at the gym! A long talk with myself [ into the mirror] lead me to try to accept "aging slow down".
    I take all the above related meds except low t? as needed to keep my 5 hip surgeries in check.
    Older, over weight, slowly balding 73 year old middle of the road Illinois State Univ. swimmer that I am, won 6 medals In 6 events at mesa with slower times than last year! Yes - I take meds to make it to next year not to gain any advantage.

  15. #35
    Very Active Member Celestial's Avatar
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    Re: PEDs

    So does Botox count? Makes me LOOK younger, anyway!

  16. #36
    Very Active Member knelson's Avatar
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    Re: PEDs

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestial View Post
    So does Botox count? Makes me LOOK younger, anyway!
    Of course. Wrinkles add drag!

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