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Thread: Butterfly kick

  1. #1
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    Butterfly kick

    I was reading the rules for strokes. I read about the fly kick. It sort of confused me. I'm not sure I completely understand what it is saying? While doing the fly, i s it possible to do a whip or breast kick? Although it would probably be slower for me to do this rahter than the regular fly kick, is it okay to do the other KICKS? Can you do two of them per stroke? I woudl think that some breast strokers could really get power form their legs.

    I always thought that the breast kick gave most of the energy to the breast stroke. I think the rule is 101.3.3(?).

    Also, I think htat it is interesting that more pages are dedicated ot competition & officials than are dedicated to describing the strokes.

  2. #2
    Very Active Member Bob McAdams's Avatar
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    Re: Butterfly kick

    Originally posted by craiglll@yahoo.com
    I was reading the rules for strokes. I read about the fly kick. It sort of confused me. I'm not sure I completely understand what it is saying? While doing the fly, i s it possible to do a whip or breast kick? Although it would probably be slower for me to do this rahter than the regular fly kick, is it okay to do the other KICKS? Can you do two of them per stroke?
    I'm not sure what confused you. Rule 101.3.3 says that "The breaststroke or whip kick may be used exclusively or interchangeably with the dolphin kick while doing the butterfly stroke at any time during the race." The rules place no restrictions on how many kicks may be done per arm stroke (nor, for that matter, do they require that any arm strokes be done). What do you find unclear about that?

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    Actually, the current Rule 101.3.3 is sufficiently confusing that modification of this rule was made at the 2004 USMS Convention. The 2005 Rulebook will have the following wording:

    101.3.3 Kick
    All up and down movements of the legs and feet must be simultaneous. The position of the legs and feet need not be on the same level, but they shall not alternate in relation to each other. The breaststroke or whip kick may be used exclusively or interchangeably with the dolphin kick while doing the butterfly stroke at any time during the race. Only one breaststroke or whip kick is permitted per arm pull, except that a single breaststroke or whip kick is permitted prior to the turn and the finish without an arm pull. After the start and after each turn, a single breaststroke or whip kick is permitted prior to the first arm pull. A scissors kicking movement is not permitted.

    Yes, in Masters swimming competition, you can use breaststroke kick in butterfly, but only one breaststroke kick per arm stroke. You can do any number of dolphin kicks per arm stroke and you can go back and forth from breaststroke kick to dolphin and vice versa.

    Mary
    Mary Pohlmann

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    Very Active Member Bob McAdams's Avatar
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    Originally posted by MPohlmann
    Only one breaststroke or whip kick is permitted per arm pull, except that a single breaststroke or whip kick is permitted prior to the turn and the finish without an arm pull. After the start and after each turn, a single breaststroke or whip kick is permitted prior to the first arm pull.
    If this is what had always been intended, then I agree that the previous wording was confusing!

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    any likelihood the breastroke rules will be changed to the use of dolphin kick? my knee is bad, it limits my participation in IM and breastroke events.

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    Very Active Member Matt S's Avatar
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    Geraldine,

    I would not expect that any time soon. Please forgive me if I recite history which you already know. Prior to the 1950s, there were only three competitive strokes; there was no butterfly. Then some enterprising soul noticed that the rules of the time allowed a breast stroker to recover his arms over the water. He tried this method, and discovered it allowed him to go faster, and voila! You had the latest stroke technique craze of that era, and some swimmers even talked about pacing strategies that involved using over water or under water recoveries at various points of longer breast stroke events.

    Problem was that the breast stroke was (and is) much beloved of swimming traditionalists and antiquarians. (If you troll these discussion threads, you will encounter them. They talk so movingly and eloquently about the sensation of swimming breast, like George Will describing baseball, or those European poets who speak so lovingly of soccer, that they pass out from their own eloquence. However, I digress...) They felt that the breast stroke that they had come to know and love was under assault and in danger of disappearing from competitive swimming altogether when elite swimmers figured out how to make use systematically of the over water arm recovery. The solution of the time was to create a new competitive stroke--butterfly--that required over water recovery, and then change the breast stroke rules to prohibit over arm recovery. In an amazing and unlikely turn of events, they had actually found a solution that made competitive swimming better for everyone involved. The breast strokers got to keep their beloved traditional stroke. The really good over water recoverers got their own stroke (which in my humble opinion is truly the stroke of the Gods, but again, I digress...) Swimming as a whole got a fourth stroke to round out the schedule of events, and let's face it, 200 and 400 are much more regular distances for IM races, and much preferable to the 150 and 300 IM that preceded them. (I'm not pulling your leg. They really did contest those races. Yeech!) In Masters swimming, and only Masters swimming, a breast stroke kick is permitted in deference to the older swimmers who learned fly, if at all, as a modification of breast stroke. At every other level of swimming, a breast stroke kick is forbidden in fly races.

    So, to get to the point, the possibility the traditionalists will ever agree to let you use a fly or "body dolphin" kick in place of the normal breast stroke kick IN A RACE is about as likely as pigs flying or donkeys speaking latin (or Gull endorsing TI, but there I go again, digressing...) I will observe that if you would like to swim breast stroke that way in practice, no one is going to tell you that you can't (and if you coach tries, fire him; he works for you). I use "body dolphin" breast stroke (i.e. breast pull with fly kick) myself as a stroke drill to learn the "body wave" style of breast stroke. If you don't follow, look for anything Wayne McCauley has written. He is the self-declared, and widely regarded and accepted, breast stroke guru of Masters swimming. Moroever, when I put fins on, even the short blade kind, I actually feel like a real breast stroker for the only time in my life and begin to understand a little bit what the traditionalists are talking about before they render themselves unconscious with their own prose.

    Matt

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    Matt,

    thank you for the history, i wasn't aware of it. i do the dolphin kick in practice whenever breastroke comes up. my knee cant tolerate the traditional kick. and speaking of traditionionalists, will they be dying off soon? can we plot their demise? <g> im a newbie, but you're a regular here. they'd never suspect me. ill get the broomstick. a quick shot to the jewels will stop all poetry.

    geraldine

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    Matt,

    Somewhere in a thread there is a wonderful history of the breast/butterfly stroke. How's the thinking about the channel swim? I'm moving to Urbana for a new job and now won't have all the freetime as I had.

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    Very Active Member Matt S's Avatar
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    Craig,

    I'm just dying here at work which has gone completely nuts lately. My posts today are clear evidence of too much caffein before lunch break

    I've adjusted my personal schedule to 2008, because I realized training for a Channel swim while simultaneously retiring from active duty is, well...foolhardy to put it politely. When I get a couple spare seconds (and brain cells able to function after quitting time), I'll reengage the swimming alumni community and see if I can find people as nuts as we are.

    Matt

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