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Thread: Post-Grads in U.S. Masters Swimming Events

  1. #1

    Post-Grads in U.S. Masters Swimming Events

    Hi all,

    We're looking to get some input from Masters swimmers and coaches on the age old question whether someone who is a professional or post-grad swimmer belongs in U.S. Masters Swimming events going after Masters records.

    Curious to get your thoughts!

    We may ask you to be in a future issue of Swimming World.

    Jason Marsteller
    Swimming World

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    Re: Post-Grads in U.S. Masters Swimming Events

    Of course they do. And they should be encouraged.

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    Farewell Lily smontanaro's Avatar
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    Re: Post-Grads in U.S. Masters Swimming Events

    Agree with @sickfish. From my perspective as a more-or-less recreational swimmer, I see a couple benefits which would more than counterbalance the presumed negative effect of pros/post-grads/Olympians grabbing all the records.
    • Most of us will never be close to swimming records anyway. It doesn't really matter to me who holds a record. It will never be me.
    • There's the added cachet of having these world-class swimmers at Master's events. Rowdy has big shoulders but he shouldn't have to carry the full weight of being swimming's ambassador to the world.
    • Their presence would be a draw for USMS.
    • Where else are they going to keep their competitive fires burning?

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    Very Active Member Allen Stark's Avatar
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    Re: Post-Grads in U.S. Masters Swimming Events

    Masters Swimming is for EVERYONE age 18 and over.
    "To strive,to seek,to find,and not to yield" Tennyson
    Allen

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    Re: Post-Grads in U.S. Masters Swimming Events

    To be honest I think diffrent in this issue. Somebody who is a professional swimmer and is swimming on international events for a national team doesn't belong in masters events and should not be able to hold any masters records.
    It is like a indy-car driver who will start in a recreation run.

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    Very Active Member Bill Sive's Avatar
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    Re: Post-Grads in U.S. Masters Swimming Events

    Its a mixed bag type of question. Yes, if they are over 18 then they qualify for Masters. I agree that most of us will never swim as fast as them, however, a few that I have met in swim meets, locally, have been kind to respond to questions about swimming. Persons like myself are able to get feedback on swimming technique, style, training, etc. Should Masters develop elite events for persons such as those? Would advise against it as it defeats the core reason Masters exists. Now, how about an exhibition event between these athletes? That would be nice.

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    Very Active Member orca1946's Avatar
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    Re: Post-Grads in U.S. Masters Swimming Events

    Yes - open to all. I still would like to bike ride with Lance.

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    Re: Post-Grads in U.S. Masters Swimming Events

    I am going to link 2 interesting discussion threads on this subject that was discussed in the last year with Kurt Nelson stating the threads.

    http://forums.usms.org/showthread.ph...-masters-meets

    http://forums.usms.org/showthread.ph...ht=#post296054
    Skip Thompson

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    Very Active Member Jimbosback's Avatar
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    Re: Post-Grads in U.S. Masters Swimming Events

    Absolutely. It is really enjoyable to see the elites at our meets. Even better to say I swam in the same event or even the same heat. I will never be accused of being very fast, so like most masters, the record or national champion question is moot for me.
    On taper since 2012

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    Re: Post-Grads in U.S. Masters Swimming Events

    We love to watch fast swimming. We fully welcome pro, post grad & elite swimmers in masters.
    Many masters records are very hard to break, because a post grad already broke it.

    Many of the Mens 25 - 29 SCY records are just insane.
    http://www.usms.org/comp/records.php?slt=a&ri=i

    Good luck to those who attempt to break em. Several of the distance records seem the softer or easier to break.

    I love it when former greats drop in our workouts at Longhorn masters and a few are now regulars.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Marsteller View Post
    Hi all,
    We're looking to get some input from Masters swimmers and coaches on the age old question whether someone who is a professional or post-grad swimmer belongs in U.S. Masters Swimming events going after Masters records.
    Curious to get your thoughts!
    We may ask you to be in a future issue of Swimming World.
    Jason Marsteller
    Swimming World
    Last edited by ande; February 12th, 2015 at 02:22 PM.

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    Moderator Rob Copeland's Avatar
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    Re: Post-Grads in U.S. Masters Swimming Events

    Masters Swimming is for EVERYONE age 18 and over.
    I think itís great that our sports most elite athletes are members of U.S. Masters Swimming and will periodically show up at meets.

    As for breaking records, this past year Tom Shields broke my sonís USMS national record in the 18-24 50 fly. There was no disturbance in the Force and my son could care less. For those who donít know him, Shields also holds the USA Swimming American record in the SCM 50, 100 and 200 fly. He represents the USA on international teams and hopefully will be on the 2016 Olympic team.

    I donít think anyone besides my wife and I shed a tear at the new record. And I encourage the rest of you swim parents to not lose hope, if your children canít break the record of a NCAA champion in his prime, maybe they can crush him when heís 84.
    The opinions expressed in the above post are mine and not those of U.S. Masters Swimming.

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    Very Active Member Swimosaur's Avatar
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    Re: Post-Grads in U.S. Masters Swimming Events

    Quote Originally Posted by Allen Stark View Post
    Masters Swimming is for EVERYONE age 18 and over.
    Exactly!

    I'd also like to get past the idea that once you've graduated from High School, College, Post-Grad, whatever, that your swimming career is OVER. It's not over. You're just swimming in a new league, where training has to take its place alongside work, spouse, kids, and all the other demands of real life. Now it gets interesting!

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    Re: Post-Grads in U.S. Masters Swimming Events

    Quote Originally Posted by Allen Stark View Post
    Masters Swimming is for EVERYONE age 18 and over.
    yes and no.

    USA Masters Swimming is for everyone 18 and older

    however
    FINA Masters Swimming is for everyone 25 and older

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    Active Member Michael Blatt's Avatar
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    Re: Post-Grads in U.S. Masters Swimming Events

    Totally +1 to having them swim.

    One of the things I love about Masters swimming is the occasional opportunity to swim in the lane next to a former world-record holder.

    Having such people swim in Masters meets can only be good for the sport and organization.

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    Re: Post-Grads in U.S. Masters Swimming Events

    A meet where no one in the top ten can swim? That's just sad. Why not just put a speed limit on each event?

    Think about it. You're telling someone about a meet. Would you rather say "there were a lot of nice people, I got lapped by a dude with a beer gut who was eight years older than me, and it was tons of fun" or "there were a lot of nice people, I got lapped by a dude with a beer gut who was eight years older than me, it was tons of fun, oh and Olympic gold medalist Misty Hyman (for example) swam too"?

    And so what if they set records? They're age group records. If they are set by an Olympian, that makes masters swimming look better. Does Rowdy not deserve his records? And time limits are arbitrary. Can a one-time Olympian at age 18 set masters records when she's 29? Does Dara Torres have to wait until she's 52?

    Any restriction you can think of "to level the playing field" will fall apart in practice because it's fundamentally unfair to exclude anyone based on achievement or ability. We either let everyone compete (and set records) or the competition is meaningless. I guess you would say "there were a lot of nice people, everyone swam the same speed because we don't allow fast people, yeah I don't know what the point is either."

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    Very Active Member Allen Stark's Avatar
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    Re: Post-Grads in U.S. Masters Swimming Events

    I have never had an experience of being at a meet with a former Olympian and finding them anything but great to be around.I joke that I want to hate Rick Colella because he is too fast and heck,better looking,but I can't because he is just a great guy.If you start trying to not let people swim because they are too good it seems to violate our idea of inclusiveness.
    It has been a long time since I was a first time swimmer,so I can't know how I'd react to being lapped by an Olympian,but I expect I'd be honored.I felt honored to get smoked by Megan Jendrick at a local meet.
    "To strive,to seek,to find,and not to yield" Tennyson
    Allen

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    Very Active Member Water Rat's Avatar
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    Re: Post-Grads in U.S. Masters Swimming Events

    I think it's awesome to swim in meets with current and former Olympians. The vibe is fantastic. Admittedly, I am a huge Olympics geek. I'm proud to say I competed head to head with Biondi at Nationals. Well it was more like head to feet in my case.
    I don't compete to break records and I would imagine 99% of masters don't either. Sure it's great to see how I rank at the end of the year but I swim for me and compete with myself and my own times.

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    Very Active Member StewartACarroll's Avatar
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    Re: Post-Grads in U.S. Masters Swimming Events

    Quote Originally Posted by Water Rat View Post
    I think it's awesome to swim in meets with current and former Olympians. The vibe is fantastic. Admittedly, I am a huge Olympics geek. I'm proud to say I competed head to head with Biondi at Nationals. Well it was more like head to feet in my case.
    I don't compete to break records and I would imagine 99% of masters don't either. Sure it's great to see how I rank at the end of the year but I swim for me and compete with myself and my own times.
    Agree.

    I also love the idea of trying to take down an Olympian!!

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    Very Active Member knelson's Avatar
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    Re: Post-Grads in U.S. Masters Swimming Events

    Quote Originally Posted by smontanaro View Post
    the presumed negative effect of pros/post-grads/Olympians grabbing all the records.
    And I don't think this is even a negative. A record that restricts the fastest swimmers from holding it ain't much of a record!

    Personally the idea of a "tallest dwarf" competition doesn't sound that interesting.

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    Very Active Member Sojerz's Avatar
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    Re: Post-Grads in U.S. Masters Swimming Events

    Quote Originally Posted by knelson View Post
    And I don't think this is even a negative. A record that restricts the fastest swimmers from holding it ain't much of a record! Personally the idea of a "tallest dwarf" competition doesn't sound that interesting.
    What Kirk said!

    There is a time/age element to such a restriction on pro/post-grad/Olympians that would be very difficult to construct in a way that would make any sense. Would it be: once a pro/post-grad/Olympian, always one and your restricted for life. That would make no sense and would discourage great swimmers from continuing to swim, how ridiculous would that be. At what point in time would the restriction stop and how would that make sense.
    Some guys they just give up living and start dying little by little, piece by piece. Some guys come home from work and wash up and go raciní in the street. (Bruce Springsteen, 1978)

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