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Thread: Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster

  1. #941
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    Re: Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster

    Tim,

    Mainly use the energy from your pushoff to get deep
    (3, 4 or 5 feet underwater)
    don't rely on your kick to get you there.
    Do rely on you kick to maintain your speed and accellerate as you rise.
    Push off HARD, excellent streamline then SDK fast

    there's also a shallower mainly gliding version of the suit surge for distance swimming. The Suit Surge might add several feet of gliding to each pushoff.

    If do a shallow pushoff you're going more through more turbulence and currents and there's little potential energy to surge.

    You have to hold your breath slightly longer because you're gliding further.

    When you do it correctly you'll feel your body going down then rising up.
    You want to experiment to find your sweet spot.

    kicking too soon IS wasting energy, on needless effort

    the first thing you do after you push off is glide.

    Fast dolphin kickers don't change their kick.

    There's some great SDK footage on youtube.

    The suit surge works best for those who can kick fast, if you do it but can't kick fast you're needlessly deep wasting time struggling to get to the surface.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim L View Post
    My question is on the timing and effort of the kick when descending and ascending. My personal testing on middle distance type sets seem to indicate that not putting as much effort into the kick on the descent and more on the ascent is better. I think I have also noticed that I was starting a hard flutter kick too soon after pushing off the wall and it might have been taking away something from the push off or it was just expending needless energy so I have also tried to start my kick a bit later than I used to. Then I don't put my full effort into my kick on the descent (concentrating more on streamline) until I am at or near the desired depth. The extra effort on the flutter kick on the ascent seems to compliment the bouyancy effect from what I can tell. Likewise, if I put extra effort into my kick to descend further it seems to be counter-productive to some degree.

    Do you think timing the effort level of the kick matters during the descent/ascent for most swimmers? It seems like you don't want to work too hard to get depth from what I can tell, but I haven't applied it yet in a meet.

    Thanks for your thoughts in advance,

    Tim

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    Re: Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster

    Andre, in shallower pools, that most of us swim in, how do you feel about the SDK on your side? This gives more tension because you kick more toward the walls than surface and bottom.
    Thank you

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    Re: Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster

    SDK-ing on your side is a great technique especially in shallow pools
    Practice it and become great at it. It's a weapon if you have great technique speed conditioning and breath control. SDK-ing is detriment if you don't have speed and proper technique. Natalie Coughlin and missy hyman SDK on their sides

    Part of how fast you can SDK is based on the column of water you're kicking through

    if you're on your side the column goes from where your feet/legs are all the way to the walls on each side of the pool which is way better than being too close to the surface. If you're not very deep when you SDK the column gives way causing a splash, so you're losing force on each splashy kick.

    So YES SDK-ing on your side can be a great thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by LMH View Post
    Andre, in shallower pools, that most of us swim in, how do you feel about the SDK on your side? This gives more tension because you kick more toward the walls than surface and bottom.
    Thank you

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    Re: Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster

    Thanks Ande. Glad to know I am on the right track. I just need to get my SDK to be faster or easier than my flutter kick now!

    Tim

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    Re: Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster

    if you're on your side the column goes from where your feet/legs are all the way to the walls on each side of the pool which is way better than being too close to the surface. If you're not very deep when you SDK the column gives way causing a splash, so you're losing force on each splashy kick.
    That's good insight.

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    Re: Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster

    hey tim,

    YES you do

    Your SDK should be much faster than your SFK.
    I haven't tested my SFK lately but my SDK tends to be a full second faster than my SFK.

    Keep practicing your SDK

    Ande

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim L View Post
    Thanks Ande. Glad to know I am on the right track. I just need to get my SDK to be faster or easier than my flutter kick now!

    Tim

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    Re: Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster

    I also want to swim faster ,but time is slowing me down by the year.

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    Re: Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster

    Butterfly Break Out Question

    How can you be consistent with your butteryfly breakouts? The issue I'm having is that sometimes I start the first pull too early/deep, other times too late/near the surface. I try to gauge by looking at the bottom of the pool but when I practice at a different pool that's much deeper, that reference has changed. I can also to a lesser degree sense the water pressure on my back but it's hard to use that a the sole indicator.

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    Re: Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster

    Hey Dan Sad,

    you asked "How can you be consistent with your butteryfly breakouts?"
    do pushoffs and turns, you can feel the water pressure on your upper arms and shoulders, you'll know when you're pretty shallow by how it feels and that is where you take your breakout stroke
    that's when to go from SDK to your break out

    I'm experimenting with deeper pushoffs & more SDKs before I take my first stroke.

    You definitely do NOT want your arms to recover underwater,
    It can happen if you're too deep when you do your first pull

    Ande

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    Re: Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster

    Today I edited

    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=168158&postcount=938"]Tip 238 The Suit Surge[/ame]

    It's a great way to go a bit faster and or to manage your race energy/effort

    Try it out
    Let me know
    I did "suit Surge" push offs in my last race, improved my 100 fly time
    from 53.18
    to 52.6
    I felt way better at the end of the race

    Ande
    Last edited by ande; February 16th, 2009 at 12:05 PM.

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    Very Active Member rtodd's Avatar
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    Re: Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster

    The deeper you go, the higher the pressure....about 0.5 psi/ft. If you go down four feet the extra 2 psi can compress your cross section into a more streamlines shape, while having no effect on length. It may not be perceptible, but at least it doesn't hurt the cause.

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    Re: Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster

    Tip 239 Test Your Taper

    Leslie Livingston asked the group a question on Tapering. I have a feeling she wants to do hers perfectly right and there's not a pat formula or a one size fits all approach.


    Tapering is all about experimenting to figure out
    what works best for you.

    You need to figure out what you need to do to swim as fast as you can.

    You don't have to have it all figured out.

    a. try stuff in training

    b. observe the results

    c. write down what you did and

    d. compare it to previous seasons


    If you're a fretter, crap like "trust your taper" might not work for you

    To me it's easiest to have faith in my ability during taper by swimming fast in practice. If I swam fast yesterday, the day before, the week before, and the month before
    I'll probably swim fast tomorrow or a week from now when my meet arrives.

    I understand what I need to do to taper for sprints, I'm not so sure on distance events

    I like the idea of actually racing your event many times in a season to practice what you're actually going to do.

    Short tapers can work great and take away much of the guess work. You rest a little to get that initial pop. Longer tapers can be tricky because swimmers can may go through a feel-like-crud phase. Sometimes coaches make a mistake and their swimmers feel like crud at their big meets meaning they didn't rest long enough.

    I think a taper is a place where you can arrive at and maintain, rather than something you want to precisely hit the day of your BIG meet. Perfect tapers are risky, I'd rather be tapered a week or two before my big meet arrives.

    As my taper time rolls around I'm going to look back to how I prepared for 2008 SCY nats, it's very comforting when you swim your best practice times of the season right before your big meet.

    If you want to follow my 2008 SCY taper for Nats
    Start here:
    http://www.usms.org/forums/showthrea...=4298&page=102
    it riuns through here:
    http://www.usms.org/forums/showthrea...=4298&page=108


    Don't trust your taper

    Test Your Taper

    times will tell.

    Do fast swims for time in practice with plenty of rest.
    Your practice times translate to meet times.
    Each person has a conversion factor.
    You want your body to adapt to the stress of swimming your best events.
    We become what we do.

    BUT when you taper, you don't have to race your actual events
    It's OK and often better to just do parts of them: do
    broken swims,
    pace 100's,
    15 meter break outs,
    Fast 25's, 50's, 75's, & 100's,
    race pace and easy speed swims
    Work on correct splitting,
    work on breathing,
    work on SDK,
    work on perfect technique,
    get plenty of rest
    do a lot of very easy swimming and a little very fast swimming.

    Swim in as many meets as you can but also have a few practices that are like a meet.
    Get in,
    do a meet warm up,
    put on a racing suit,
    rest 10 15 or 20 minutes
    race your event for time then
    swim down then
    rest 10, 15, or 20 minutes
    do it again

    develop the ability to swim very fast 2, 3 or 4 times each day
    for 3 days in a row

    I know I'll be faster when I'm getting stronger, when I'm doing more reps with heavier weights. Tapering is the perfect time to get stronger in the weight weight room. It's not good to lift super heavy right before your big meet. taper down your weights, reduce sets, reps and weight as your meet gets real close.

    Also be cautious with injuries. If you have an injury,
    DON'T AGGRAVATE IT.
    some big injuries begin as small injuries.

    Some injuries happen because of doing stupid stuff.
    When athletes taper they feel better, they have more energy, instead of conserving it they sometimes play and do things they shouldn't.

    I swam with swimmers who hurt their shoulders jumping off of a 60 foot bridge into the river below. Another swimmer I know broke his foot / ankle playing touch football. One time I got all the skin ripped off the bottom my big toe because I was playing basketball barefoot on asphalt.

    Don't Do Stupid stuff.

    If anything begins with "Hey y'all watch this" it's probably a very bad idea.

    Hope this helps you swim faster faster.

    Ande
    Last edited by ande; February 2nd, 2009 at 11:03 PM.

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    Re: Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster

    Quote Originally Posted by ande View Post
    Leslie Livingston [no e!]asked the group a question on Tapering. I have a feeling she wants to do hers perfectly right and there's not a pat formula or a one size fits all approach.
    I know there's not, and that's why I'm open to experimenting. I don't expect to hit anything "perfectly." Just want to be in the vicinity.

    I went fast in practice today.

    On the "drop dead taper" thread, Paul Smith seemed to suggest you shouldn't taper weights because that might cause nervous system adaptations you don't want?

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    Re: Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster

    Leslie, I'm sorry I missed it. What meet are you tapering for? And what events are you swimming?
    K.Duggan

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    Re: Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster

    Quote Originally Posted by Karen Duggan View Post
    Leslie, I'm sorry I missed it. What meet are you tapering for? And what events are you swimming?
    Hey Karen,

    I'm tapering for the Auburn Invitational Feb 14-15. Unconventional, I know, but I train consistently and feel I can taper whenever I want. I'm not going to Clovis and am on vacation shortly before my Zones meet, so I picked Auburn. If for some reason I "blow" or don't "hit" my taper, I guess I can try again at Zones. But I'm planning on a lot of relays there too.

    I'm swimming the same line up as I did in Austin: 50/100 back, 50/100 fly, 50 free and 100 IM. My brief foray into mid D did not convince me (yet) to try 200s at a taper meet.

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    Re: Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fortress View Post
    On the "drop dead taper" thread, Paul Smith seemed to suggest you shouldn't taper weights because that might cause nervous system adaptations you don't want?
    I think Paul (and Jazz) said, don't do many reps (ie, more than usual) of light weights.

    Of course you can taper weights, in the sense of doing the same or slightly fewer reps of lighter weights. This is a "taper" in the true sense of the word and is probably better than just stopping them cold turkey. Jason Lezak seems to think so, anyway.

    BUT switching from (say) 10 reps of X weight to 20 reps of X/2 weight is NOT tapering, and it is stressing your system in a new way that may not be good during taper. I'm pretty sure that's what Paul and Jazz are saying.

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    Re: Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stevenson View Post
    I think Paul (and Jazz) said, don't do many reps (ie, more than usual) of light weights.

    Of course you can taper weights, in the sense of doing the same or slightly fewer reps of lighter weights. This is a "taper" in the true sense of the word and is probably better than just stopping them cold turkey. Jason Lezak seems to think so, anyway.

    BUT switching from (say) 10 reps of X weight to 20 reps of X/2 weight is NOT tapering, and it is stressing your system in a new way that may not be good during taper. I'm pretty sure that's what Paul and Jazz are saying.
    Yep, that's what I was getting at. Tapering is really just about decreasing the overall training stress. In lifting, stress can come from load (how heavy), volume (how many reps and sets), and going to failure.

  18. #958
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    Re: Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster

    Paul knows his stuff and swims mighty fast.

    What I know for me is, I tend to swim faster when I'm stronger
    I prefer lifting close to meets, reducing sets and reps, then dropping a few days before the meet rather than weeks before. I find taper time to be a great opportunity to gain strength.

    I often swam fast in practice when I lifted weights around an hour before swimming.

    To me, it's way easier to resume weight training when I've been off weights for a few days rather than a several weeks.

    there's many approaches that work
    here's what Jason Lezak's weight program
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/jasonlezak1.htm

    ande

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fortress View Post
    I know there's not, and that's why I'm open to experimenting. I don't expect to hit anything "perfectly." Just want to be in the vicinity.
    I went fast in practice today.
    On the "drop dead taper" thread, Paul Smith seemed to suggest you shouldn't taper weights because that might cause nervous system adaptations you don't want?
    Last edited by ande; February 3rd, 2009 at 02:49 PM.

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    Re: Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster

    At the meet I did on sunday, I asked a well known swimmer , Pete Anderson, to help me with my poor breast stroke kick. He did willingly & I picked up some tips to try. I have been trying to kick in a circle. He has me trying to kick straight back & let my feet flair as I kick back. It seems to help.

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    Re: Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster

    Ande,
    I really liked your long post #239 on taper. I made a copy and now it is covered with my own notes, comments, etc. It reflects most of my thoughts/practices. I also think that the posts by Jazz, Chris and Paul are loaded with true wisdom for the serious competitor. However, I hate the term "taper". Even though it is solidly embedded into swimming culture, I've always felt it is misleading. If you're tapering, or lessening your workload, you're not effectively preparing to swim your best. For about the last 8 or 9 years I've been thinking of it as Championship Performance Prep (CPP). I know it is only a difference in semantics, but for me it makes a difference in how I approach this period, both physically and psychologically.

    Rich

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