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Thread: Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster

  1. #1001
    Very Active Member Paul Smith's Avatar
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    Re: Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster

    Quote Originally Posted by aquageek View Post
    Hmmm, good point. I also take spinning three days a week. Hard to beat spinning for an arse-kicking cardio workout, not to mention the benefit to the legs. Running, however, trumps all for benefit but also comes with injury risk.
    The last edition of the ASCA journal had an article on lactate threshold training that was pretty interesting...one of the primary test sets this coach used was 40 x 25's @ :30 all out w/no breath to 15 yds then easy to the wall.

    I've been testing this in my cross training; on the spin bike, rower and running stadiums last weekend...its the closest I've come to pucking in a workout in years...in other words I love it.
    Last edited by Paul Smith; February 6th, 2009 at 03:57 PM.
    I crack myself up. It is jealousy. It is Boredom. I Did not accomplish enough when I was young, and I hate anybody faster/younger than me.

  2. #1002
    Very Active Member Paul Smith's Avatar
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    Re: Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster

    Quote Originally Posted by aquageek View Post
    I'm glad you said it cause I'm in total agreement with you on this. I've about had it with the core fad. I hope it ends soon.
    Sorry guys...you are both 100% wrong. No discussion or debate on this one.
    I crack myself up. It is jealousy. It is Boredom. I Did not accomplish enough when I was young, and I hate anybody faster/younger than me.

  3. #1003
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    Re: Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Smith View Post
    Sorry guys...you are both 100% wrong. No discussion or debate on this one.
    Agreed I just posted on uk's equivelant forum to a guy who is dead against tech suits and doesn't even know what core strength is. ' A let's throw big weights around the gym and get big arms' attitude.

    I wrote "Join us in 2009. Tech Suits and Core Stability - it's progression!"

    http://www.swimclub.co.uk/forum/show...t=11659&page=2

  4. #1004
    Very Active Member aquageek's Avatar
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    Re: Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Smith View Post
    Sorry guys...you are both 100% wrong. No discussion or debate on this one.
    As I clarified, Pinecone, I am just tired of hearing core every time I turn around. Having just taken a 30 minute ab class, I can confirm it is of great value to strengthen the, well, you know.

    As hard as I swim I never come anywhere near close to nausea. A challenging spin class will get you there easily every time.

  5. #1005
    Paragon / Swimming Virtue
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    Re: Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Smith View Post
    Sorry guys...you are both 100% wrong. No discussion or debate on this one.
    Right. Because if you actually think about it, you might find out something different. Wouldn't want that.

    I'm not denying that there is some transfer of force through the torso in swimming. However, abdominal strength is not speed limiting, and it's not where the stroke power actually originates. Try wiggling around in the pool with your arms at your side and see how fast you can go. Try looking at the bodies of the fastest swimmers. Where do they have the most muscle mass, proportionately? It's not in the abs.

    It's ironic that Chris chose to lecture me personally on core strength, assuming that he is better than me at fly because his abs are stronger or something. Who else here is doing heavy front squats?
    Last edited by Jazz Hands; February 6th, 2009 at 11:09 AM.

  6. #1006
    Very Active Member Chris Stevenson's Avatar
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    Re: Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Smith View Post
    The last edition of the ASCA journal had an article on lactate threshold training that was pretty interesting...one of the primary test sets this coach used was 40 x 50's @ :30 all out w/no breath to 15 yds then easy to the wall.
    Is that really an interval of 30 sec for the 50s, or 30 sec rest between each?

  7. #1007
    Very Active Member aquageek's Avatar
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    Re: Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster

    Jazzy - you are very feisty lately, what's up? You are taking on some big hitters on this forum who are close to twice your age and very nearly as fast.

    Anyway, you are a self professed lifter who swims all 50s and maybe 100s as well. Your workouts are very low yardage. If you don't think abs are important for fly, try doing a big set of fly. I'm not trying to be mean here, I just think your training and racing does not allow for appreciation of the value of the dreaded core programs.

    Just remember your way is not the only way, not all that radical and is subject to the same scrutiny you give us with more traditional training approaches. I know a lot of swimmers who do a lot of weight lifting, you aren't alone in that.

  8. #1008
    sprint diva The Fortress's Avatar
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    Re: Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Smith View Post
    I've been testing this in my cross training; on the spin bike, rower and running stadiums last weekend...its the closest I've come to pucking in a workout in years...in other words I love it.
    Aha, I knew it! "More is more" ... just not necessarily in the pool.

    Jazz,

    Have you actually seen Chris' quads? lol They definitely rival his shoulders.

  9. #1009
    Very Active Member Chris Stevenson's Avatar
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    Re: Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster

    Quote Originally Posted by Jazz Hands View Post
    It's ironic that Chris chose to lecture me personally on core strength, assuming that he is better than me at fly because his abs are stronger or something. Who else here is doing heavy front squats?
    Jazz, I do regret bringing in the 10 strokes/lap thing, it wasn't meant to be personal or a knock. I have little idea how good you are at fly -- I'm sure you are fast at sprints -- but I don't need to see you swim to know that 10 strokes/lap is not good DPS; it can be overcome with turnover but that is a strategy that doesn't work well for anything beyond a short fly sprint.

    But mostly I take issue with your statement -- especially in butterfly -- that power doesn't originate from the hips. To use your own argument, try swimming butterfly with arms only -- go to town with those lats if you like -- without moving your hips and see how well that works.

    But really it is a little foolish to try to isolate one muscle group from another in a stroke and argue which provides more propulsion. People like you and Geochuck who argue that arms are responsible for 80% propulsion (or whatever) ignore just how important legs and core are to achieving proper leverage and body position to get the most of your arm/lat strength. And those core/leg muscles do indeed fatigue and can reduce speed greatly in doing so by reducing the max power possible from arms/lats.

    (Of course, the "arms dominance" people routinely ignore the utter dominance of leg/core strength in fast underwaters, starts and turns, none of which are trivial in most races.)

    For myself, I would say that they only time that leg or core fatigue is not a factor in my races is in longer OW swims; my lats are usually screaming at me by the end of such races. I can't recall a pool race have I ever though to myself that my lats gave out or were limiting. There have definitely been times, however, when my legs were so exhausted that I had trouble standing up after a race.

    But by and large, I usually just hurt all over after a race. I think it is a little silly to ignore or downplay an important muscle group b/c of its perceived relative importance.

  10. #1010
    Very Active Member aquageek's Avatar
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    Re: Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster

    To Chris' point, go watch a bunch of 12/u kids do the 200 fly and try to discount legs and abs. The arms are still moving but they have gone vertical many times.

  11. #1011
    Very Active Member pwb's Avatar
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    Re: Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster

    Boy, this is a feisty discussion. My assessment of what's important and what's working for me is pretty basic, but an amalgam of a lot of the ideas here:

    1. More Technique = Rich's comments, Paul's "less is more", "no garbage yardage" when it comes to technique
      • I'm certainly not perfect, but when I'm not swimming fast, I try really, really hard to think about technique; when I'm doing drills, I try really, really hard not to go through the motions

    2. More is more = cross training, strength development in & out of the water, doing more, but focused work more consistently
      • When I'm in the pool more frequently, I swim faster
        • Masters context: I ramped up from less than 10K yards per week to a base plan around 12K to 15K and a max plan around 20K to 25K ... I'm not talking about harkening back to my HS days of 80K to 100K yard weeks

      • When I add in targeted weight training consistently, I get faster
      • When I add in core work, I get faster:
        • I do feel my core burn at the end of a hard race on anything 200 & above and especially on the long distance races.
        • As I've worked on technique more lately, I've realized how much more power I can generate by thinking about swimming from the core and not from the shoulders


    3. Swim faster more = this is a "no garbage yardage" from a quality perspective in workouts
      • When I increase the % of my workouts devoted to fast swimming AND I actually try to swim fast during those sets, I go faster in meets

    4. Wear a tech suit = as Ande has said before, this is a no brainer, but is also a distant 4th in my list of priorities

    I've swum faster in the last 5 months (at 41) since coming back to Masters at 33. I expect to swim even faster as this season unfolds and look forward to getting faster for at least a few more years (e.g., judging by the continued speed evidenced by some guys in their mid-40s) by focusing on the above.
    Last edited by pwb; February 6th, 2009 at 01:06 PM.

  12. #1012
    Here to keep it real JimRude's Avatar
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    Re: Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Smith View Post
    The last edition of the ASCA journal had an article on lactate threshold training that was pretty interesting...one of the primary test sets this coach used was 40 x 50's @ :30 all out w/no breath to 15 yds then easy to the wall.

    I've been testing this in my cross training; on the spin bike, rower and running stadiums last weekend...its the closest I've come to pucking in a workout in years...in other words I love it.
    In order to generate some pool-puke, I can highly recommend 6-10x 100 on 5:00, all as fast as possible for average time.
    This bush league psyche-out stuff. Laughable, man - ha ha!

  13. #1013
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    Re: Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster

    Quote Originally Posted by aquageek View Post
    Jazzy - you are very feisty lately, what's up?
    Geek, is this a hint of compassion/concern? If so, are you o.k.? Getting enough rest? Is the family good? Hang in there, you will get through this.

    So, I get home last night and find out my wife booked a ski vacation during my kids Spring break the week of the only meet I was going to taper for this year. I am looking forward to the time with my family and enjoy skiing a lot, but this is going to test most of my beliefs regarding tapering. I guess it will be a good experiment though which I always like and contrarian which I also like too. A week of skiing bumps might not be the best swim performance enhancement. I guess I could ski easy stuff, but I just don't see that happening.

    My wife just doesn't understand swimming (maybe this should be a new thread topic) - I kind of mention sheepishly about the meet being that weekend and she says "No problem, we will be back Friday night (after 5 or 6 days of skiing) so you will be back in time and can still swim Saturday and Sunday". Aghhhh! Nothing to say, but "thanks dear".

    I was thinking this morning during practice that maybe I should try sticking with shorter events at the meet, rather than the middle distance stuff I was planning on. Any thoughts whether lactic acid build-up in the legs would be worse for one event or another? Sprints versus middle distance? Am I just totally hosed with a ski taper?

    Tim
    Last edited by Tim L; February 6th, 2009 at 02:18 PM.

  14. #1014
    Very Active Member mctrusty's Avatar
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    Re: Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster

    Quote Originally Posted by JimRude View Post
    In order to generate some pool-puke, I can highly recommend 6-10x 100 on 5:00, all as fast as possible for average time.
    ...or do the gatorade set.
    Auburn Puke Session
    “Pleasure in the job puts perfection in the work.” --Aristotle

  15. #1015
    Very Active Member Allen Stark's Avatar
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    Re: Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster

    To say that core is unimportant because the lats provide the power is like saying the rotator cuff is unimportant for the same reason. The core(and rotator cuff)provides the platform for the big muscles to work from.Core work is really important in BR with the undulation and with the need to stay REALLY streamlined in the pull out.
    To those who swim 100s on the 1:10 or similar I ask;how do you know what your 100 race pace is if you never swim at race pace?
    "To strive,to seek,to find,and not to yield" Tennyson
    Allen

  16. #1016
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    Re: Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster

    Decided to update the SFF INDEX
    These ideas will help you Swim Faster Faster

    Everyone can improve. SFF is filled with ideas to help YOU improve rapidly.

    Since I can no Longer edit many of the posts in this thread,
    I've decided to place the Index of Ande's Swim Faster Faster Swimming Tips near the end


    Index of Ande's Swim Faster Faster Swimming Tips

    Tip # / Title / Thread Page you can find it on


    Tip 01 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=33565&postcount=1"]Swim fast in practice[/ame]


    Tip 02 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=33588"]Learn how to dolphin kick in streamline position[/ame]


    Tip 03 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=33665"]very fast Kickers[/ame]


    Tip 04 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=33855"]The power of HABIT[/ame]


    Tip 05 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=33976"]ACTING AS IF[/ame]


    Tip 06 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=34043"]Keep Your Head Neutral [/ame]


    Tip 06 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=34154"]Fewer Strokes[/ame]


    Tip 07 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=34194"]Crash Sprint Clinic[/ame]


    Tip 08 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=34217"]Lug Less Lard[/ame]


    Tip 09 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=34262"]Reasons for this Season[/ame]


    Tip 10 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=34375"]Start with Starts[/ame]


    Tip 11 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=34407&postcount=79"]Ease of Movement[/ame]


    Tip 12 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=34463&postcount=82"]Correct Splitting[/ame]


    Tip 13 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=34549&postcount=83"]Unconscious Mastery[/ame]


    Tip 13 Action Cues


    Tip 14 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=34590&postcount=88"]Have the right Equipment and Back ups Ready and Nearby[/ame]


    Tip 15 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=34590&postcount=88"]Fast Skin Type Suits really are faster[/ame]


    Tip 16 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=34590&postcount=88"]Short Hair Weighs less than long hair[/ame]


    Tip 17 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=34590&postcount=88"]Long Fake Nails[/ame]


    Tip 18 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=34590&postcount=88"]Get a Grip / Hold Water / Clean Off the Air Bubbles[/ame]


    Tip 19 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=34669&postcount=91"]Train for a Couple Compatible Events[/ame]


    Tip 20 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=34685&postcount=94"]Swim Straight[/ame]


    Tip 21 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=34685&postcount=94"]Stay Away From the Lane Lines[/ame]


    Tip 22 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=34697&postcount=97"]Balls[/ame]


    Tip 23 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=34697&postcount=97"]Water is Heavy[/ame]


    Tip 24 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=34725&postcount=101"]Ideal Performance State[/ame]


    Tip 25 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=34746&postcount=104"]Race in a Fast Pool[/ame]


    Tip 26 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=34766&postcount=109"]Tapering[/ame]


    Tip 27 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=34785&postcount=110"]What We Say Outloud[/ame]


    Tip 28 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=34790&postcount=112"]Who You think You Are[/ame]


    Tip 29 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=34814&postcount=116"]Mentally Tough[/ame]


    Tip 30 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=34825&postcount=117"]Swim Your Own Race[/ame]


    Tip 31 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=34857&postcount=118"]It will pass[/ame]


    Tip 31 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=34862&postcount=120"]Get Strong[/ame]


    Tip 32 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=34872&postcount=122"]Goals[/ame]


    Tip 33 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=34886&postcount=124"]Your Plan[/ame]


    Tip 34 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=34939&postcount=125"]Choose[/ame]


    Tip 35 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=34966&postcount=126"]Improve Your Turns[/ame]


    Tip 36 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=35008&postcount=127"]My Reverse Calendar[/ame]


    Tip 37 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=35080&postcount=128"]Stay in Shape Between Seasons[/ame]


    Tip 38 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=35100&postcount=129"]To Time or Not To Time[/ame]


    Tip 39 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=35100&postcount=129"]Dive in with a dry fast skin[/ame]


    Tip 40 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=35100&postcount=129"]Easy Speed[/ame]


    Tip 40 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=35112&postcount=132"]Shaving[/ame]


    Tip 41 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=35157&postcount=140"]Get Truly Inspired[/ame]


    Tip 42 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=35175&postcount=141"]Smoothing the Wrinkles out[/ame]


    Tip 43 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=35176&postcount=142"]Faith[/ame]


    Tip 44 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=35233&postcount=143"]Unfatigued[/ame]


    Tip 45 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=35340&postcount=147"]How Often, How Far, How Hard and How Smart[/ame]


    Tip 46 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=35392&postcount=148"]Turn Cues[/ame]


    Tip 47 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=35544&postcount=155"]Flexibility[/ame]


    Tip 48 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=35548&postcount=156"]Ride The Glide[/ame]


    Tip 49 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=35639&postcount=165"]Get trained by a great coach[/ame].


    Tip 50 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=35640&postcount=166"]Train in the Best Program You Can[/ame]


    Tip 51 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=35714&postcount=170"]WIPE THE SLATE CLEAN[/ame]


    Tip 52 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=35815&postcount=171"]No Ear Infections[/ame]


    Tip 53 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=35904&postcount=172"]Accountability[/ame]


    Tip 54 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=35923&postcount=173"]Show Up[/ame]


    Tip 55 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=36096&postcount=186"]The last battle technique[/ame]


    Tip 56 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=36330&postcount=196"]The 90 Day Experiment[/ame]


    Tip 57 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=36514&postcount=199"]Get It Together[/ame]


    Tip 58 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=36532&postcount=200"]Top 10 Strategies[/ame]


    Tip 58 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=36550&postcount=201"]Top 10 Strategies (where to get info)[/ame]


    Tip 59 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=36592&postcount=202"]Cause and Effect[/ame]


    Tip 60 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=36593&postcount=203"]The Rage to Master[/ame]


    Tip 61 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=36942&postcount=208"]Focus on One Event[/ame]


    Tip 62 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=36954&postcount=209"]Plan Your Meet Schedule (and other meet tips)[/ame]


    Tip 63 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=37121&postcount=225"]Training versus Meets[/ame]


    Tip 64 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=37187&postcount=228"]Technique[/ame]


    Tip 65 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=37408&postcount=229"]What Do I Need to Do to ... [/ame]


    Tip 66 Lead Your Lane
    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=37839&postcount=244"]U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster[/ame]


    Tip 67 Coach Wooden's Pyramid of Success
    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=38098&postcount=245"]U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster[/ame]


    Tip 68 Get Tougher
    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=38264&postcount=246"]U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster[/ame]


    Tip 69 Laurels
    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=38492&postcount=252"]U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster[/ame]


    Tip 70 Improve Your Standing Vertical Leap
    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=38648&postcount=255"]U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster[/ame]


    Tip 71 Sprint Training
    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=38673&postcount=266"]U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster[/ame]


    Tip 72 Sets Education
    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=39346&postcount=273"]U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster[/ame]


    Tip 73 More Sets Education
    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=39483&postcount=274"]U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster[/ame]


    Tip 74 How to Correctly Split the 200 Breast and 200 Fly
    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=39720&postcount=277"]U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster[/ame]


    Tip 75 Get Your Six Pack Back
    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=39794&postcount=278"]U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster[/ame]


    Tip 76 Own Your Goal
    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=39796&postcount=279"]U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster[/ame]


    Tip 77 To Become a Better Swimmer
    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=39960&postcount=282"]U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster[/ame]


    Tip 78 The Correlation Between Training and Competition times.
    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=40051&postcount=283"]U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster[/ame]


    Tip 79 Breathe
    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=40077&postcount=284"]U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster[/ame]


    Tip 80 Comparing and Desparing
    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=40466&postcount=289"]U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster[/ame]


    Tip 81 Don't Train For Masters
    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=40608&postcount=293"]U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster[/ame]


    Tip 82 Better Stories
    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=40809&postcount=299"]U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster[/ame]


    Tip 83 Arrive Early
    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=40903&postcount=306"]U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster[/ame]


    Tip 84 FUN
    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=40931&postcount=307"]U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster[/ame]


    Tip 85 Are you getting slower, staying the same or getting faster
    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=41005&postcount=315"]U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster[/ame]


    Tip 86 Coachability
    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=41132&postcount=318"]U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster[/ame]


    Tip 87 Over Eating / Caloric Intake
    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=41341&postcount=319"]U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster[/ame]


    Tip 88 Training for 1650
    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=41403&postcount=322"]U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster[/ame]


    Tip 89 Training for 25
    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=41606&postcount=324"]U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster[/ame]


    Tip 90 Critical Factors
    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=41710&postcount=325"]U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster[/ame]


    Tip 91 What’s holding you back?
    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=41929&postcount=329"]U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster[/ame]


    Tip 92 Faster Intervals
    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=42132&postcount=330"]U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster[/ame]


    Tip 92 Breaking Through Barriers
    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=42140&postcount=331"]U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster[/ame]


    Tip 93 The More You Do
    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=42198&postcount=332"]U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster[/ame]


    Tip 94 Short Phrases
    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=42274&postcount=333"]U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster[/ame]

    Tip 95 Contract
    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=42885&postcount=334"]U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster[/ame]


    Tip 96 our finest moments
    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=42937&postcount=335"]U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster[/ame]

    Tip 97 Altitude Training
    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=43605&postcount=336"]U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster[/ame]


    Tip 98 How to Split an 800
    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=44156&postcount=359"]U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster[/ame]


    Tip 99 Make a few Practices that are like Meets
    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=44315&postcount=371"]U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster[/ame]


    Tip 100 What IF
    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=44367&postcount=375"]U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster[/ame]


    Tip 101 What Suit Suits You
    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=44369&postcount=376"]U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster[/ame]


    Tip 102 Don't Do Stupid Stuff
    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=44512&postcount=378"]U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster[/ame]


    Tip 107. Prelim Final Meets
    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=44644&postcount=379"]U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster[/ame]


    Tip 108 Failure and Frustration Can Fuel Redemption
    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=44953&postcount=396"]U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster[/ame]


    109 Role Models
    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=45403&postcount=397"]U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster[/ame]


    110 You Can Fake a 50 but You Can't Fake a 400
    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=45495&postcount=401"]U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster[/ame]


    111 How was that swim?
    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=45715&postcount=402"]U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster[/ame]


    112 Touch the D@#! WALL
    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=45791&postcount=403"]U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster[/ame]


    113 Keep a Training Journal
    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=46143&postcount=406"]U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster[/ame]


    114 Expectations


    115 How Many Beats?


    116 Sleep Tight Recover Right


    117 Battling Burnout


    118 Just for Kicks


    119 What is the most important quality ...


    120 Breastrokers and IMers: a single downward dolphin kick


    121 Situations, Trade offs, Choices, Actions, and Consequences


    122 Not Much Time To Train


    123 Trash the Splash


    123 Back Off


    124 Modify


    125 A Terrific Touch


    126 Taper Time


    127 Prevent Problems


    128 Starting Out Starting Over


    129 Beat Your Nemisis


    130 Do You Like to Win?


    131 Be a Draft Dodger


    132 Get a Flu Shot


    133 Come Up with Plan B


    134 Let Your Significant other Sleep


    135 The Formula for Kicking Faster


    136 The Magic Surge Dive


    137 How Many Kicks Can You Handle?


    138 Convenience and Consistency


    139 Emphasis


    140 Be Aquadynamic


    141 Swim Tips for Triathletes


    142 Build a Pit Crew Around You


    143 Perceived Effort


    144 Pick a Project


    145 Focus on what you need to fix


    146 Do What You Know You NEED to Do


    147 Preparing for a Major Meet


    148 Placing Higher at Championship Meets and in Top Ten Rankings


    149 Which Stroke is Your Stroke


    150 Be well Prepared for the Most Difficult Part of your Races


    151 Maintain a Swim Blog, write down your swimming details


    152 Adaptation Rate


    153 Drop a Suit


    154 Don't Close Your Patent Office


    155 Do What You Know You Need to Do


    156 Drafting


    157 In and Out of the Flags


    158 Mistakes and Rehearsal


    159 Strength vs Body Proportions


    160 After You've Exhausted The "Quick Fix" Tips


    161 Train for Trials


    162 Time and Record your Races


    163 Mentors and Mentees


    164 Out with the Old and In with the New


    165 Build a Better Boat


    166 Confidence


    167 Everybody Wants to Be Rich
    [

    168 Sometimes a Slight Technique Modification Can Create a Major Time Improvement


    169 Get in the Zen Zone


    170 Places to Swim


    171 Getting Sick or Injured Right Before Your Big Meet


    172 Track Starts and Cap over Straps


    173 Weight and Tapering


    174 Whip Whipper Snappers


    175 Distance Habits vs Sprint Habits


    176 Your Own Draft


    177 Split Differentials for the 50 Free Short Course


    Crocker's Track Start Tips


    178 Figure Out What to Fix


    179 Do Something Different, Do Something Drastic


    180 PREPARE to Be Tested


    181 Train to Maintain and Sustain a Powerful Kick


    182 Waist Management


    183 Don't Let Your Dreams Go Down the Toilet


    184 Counting Counts


    185 "Is the Prize Worth the Price?"


    Tip 186 Currents of the Course (tip for trialetes)


    Tip 187 Biggest Breath


    Tip 188 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=105687"]Booster Rockets[/ame]


    Tip 189 The Question How do you keep water from going up your nose, when you SDK on your back?


    Tip 190 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=115245"]the Shin Fin Kicking Technique[/ame]


    Tip 191 Meets Are The Best Kind of Training You Can Do


    Tip 192 A Pause: Great Breastroke Tips from a World Record Holder


    Tip 193 Which Events Should Enter at Your Focus Meet


    Tip 194 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=122924"]Meets are the Best Way to Train [/ame]


    Tip 195 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=125422"]Meet Strategies for Back to Back Events[/ame]


    Tip 196 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=125727"]Backstroke Starts [/ame]



    Tip 197 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=125855"]How Much to Warm Down [/ame]


    Tip 198 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=126892"]Do 2 More Weight Work Outs a Month [/ame]


    Tip 199 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=127514"]Perspective[/ame]


    Tip 200 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=127763"]Talk with Your Coach at Meets[/ame]


    [B]Tip 201 [URL="http://forums.usms.org/showpost.php?p=128449"]Which Suit Suits you? 2 More info On Racing Suits]


    Tip 202 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=129216"]Use Your Head: Racing Caps[/ame]


    Tip 203 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=129542"]List of What to Pack in your Swim Bag for a Swim Meet[/ame]


    Tip 204 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=130480"]Get Grizzly[/ame]


    205 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=130482"]Leave It All in the Pool[/ame]


    Tip 206 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=130643"]Participate on Online Swimming Communities[/ame]
    ( especially www.usms.org/forums )


    Tip 207 [ame="http://forums.usms.org/showpost.php?p=130645"]Music[/ame]


    Tip 208 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=131705"]Mistakes People Make in Big Meets[/ame]


    Tip 209 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=132280"]Bouts with Doubt[/ame]


    Tip 210 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=132475"]Taking Care of Business[/ame]


    Tip 211) [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=133890&postcount=763"]When You Can't Get Wet[/ame]


    Tip 212[ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=136893&postcount=768"] It's Completely Possible[/ame]


    Tip 213[ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=137135&postcount=769"] Leave a Little Doubt[/ame]


    Tip 214 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=137375&postcount=771"]Even More On Racing Suits[/ame]


    Tip 215 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=137550&postcount=774"]The How-Fast-at-What-Age Formula[/ame]


    Tip 216 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=138268&postcount=777"]Garbage Yardage[/ame]


    Tip 217 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=138317&postcount=780"]When the Coach is Away[/ame]


    Tip 218 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=142667&postcount=785"]It's Not Trespassing to Go Beyond Your Own Boundaries[/ame]


    Tip 219 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=145613&postcount=800"]Stacking Tech Suits[/ame]


    Tip 220 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=146226&postcount=805"]Your time will be your Ideal Performance plus Mistakes[/ame]


    Tip 221 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=146505&postcount=806"]Backstroke Starts Foot Position[/ame]


    Tip 222 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=146595&postcount=807"]The 400 Free is a Sprint[/ame]


    Tip 223[ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=147489&postcount=808"] Deep Dip Look Backs, Deeper, & The Right Touch[/ame]


    Tip 224 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=149305&postcount=812"]Inward feet[/ame]


    Tip 225 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=155766&postcount=817"]Race in An LZR[/ame]


    Tip 226 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=157883&postcount=821"]LOW IS THE WAY TO GO: Backstroke Breakouts[/ame]


    Tip 227 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=157910&postcount=824"]Compression[/ame]


    Tip 228 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=158912&postcount=825"]V-lieve it or Not[/ame]
    Special Posts


    Tip 229 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=160139&postcount=864"]Timing[/ame]


    Tip 230 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=160266&postcount=874"]Getting more Rest for your Race[/ame]


    Tip 231 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=160737&postcount=894"]"WHAT DO I NEED TO DO TO SWIM FASTER?" [/ame]


    Tip 232 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=161338&postcount=903"]Meet Book / Travel Book[/ame]


    Tip 233 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=164479&postcount=917"]Wet Boards[/ame]


    Tip 234 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=164490&postcount=918"]Swim Fast More Often[/ame]


    Tip 235 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=164888&postcount=920"]Cutis Anserina aka Goosebumps[/ame]


    Tip 236 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=166229&postcount=924"]Double Your Fun[/ame]


    Tip 237 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=166470&postcount=930"]Improve YOUR DPS[/ame]


    Tip 238 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=167038&postcount=932"]ASKING[/ame]


    Tip 239 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=168158&postcount=938"]The Suit Surge[/ame]


    Tip 240 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=169201&postcount=952"]Test Your Taper[/ame]


    Tip 241 [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=169664&postcount=967"]TAG DRAG[/ame]



    Bonus:

    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=41739&postcount=327"]Six Tips to Help You Improve in Your Sport[/ame]


    Today I put Swim Faster Faster to the test.

    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=126634"]Stronger Sprinters tend to be Faster Sprinters [/ame]


    My Best Season Ever

    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=132588"]More on Longer Nails[/ame]


    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=148513&postcount=811"]Don't Talk Trash it Can Backfire[/ame]


    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=150456&postcount=815"]Paul Smith's Top 10 Ways to Blow Your Meet[/ame]


    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=151172&postcount=816"]The main changes in sprint freestyle from the late 80's to now are: [/ame]


    Garrett Weber Gale's blog
    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=157649&postcount=818"]Interesting Post[/ame]


    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=162972&postcount=915"]changes[/ame]


    [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=164925&postcount=923"]10 Fave SFF tips[/ame]



    Think about where you are with your swimming then
    read through the list of tip titles,
    you might find the tip that addresses
    what is on your mind right now or
    what you need to correct to swim faster faster.



    SHARE THE TIPS
    Swimming newsletters and magazines have used them
    Swimming coaches have emailed them to their swimmers
    A few teams have them on their websites
    friends have emailed them to their friends
    If you'd like to use them in someway
    please write me, tell me about your desired use and ask permission.
    Thank you.


    Success Stories
    I love to hear from swimmers who have applied the tips and made improvements.


    Which ones are your favs?
    I’m thinking about bolding around 10% of them to draw attention to the most useful ones


    In Person Sessions
    Sometimes I do in person Swim Faster Faster sessions where I:
    1) have a swimmer swim a 25 as fast as she can while timing it and observing them
    2) let her rest a few minutes,
    3) Give her a few corrections, a short list of short commands
    4) have the swimmer swim another 25 as fast as she can and time it
    so far everyone swam faster faster.

    This works particularly well with novice swimmers.
    Last edited by ande; February 9th, 2009 at 03:48 PM.

  17. #1017
    Very Active Member pwb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
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    Re: Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster

    Quote Originally Posted by Allen Stark View Post
    To those who swim 100s on the 1:10 or similar I ask;how do you know what your 100 race pace is if you never swim at race pace?
    To me "race pace" in workout is a highly variable concept depending, in part, on where I am in my training cycle, what cross-training I've done the days/weeks/hours before, etc. I have commented before that my Masters training experience has been that I'm a much worse workout swimmer than I was in my college days, but a much better meet swimmer. I RARELY swim a pace in workout that is near my pace in meets.

    Two quick examples:

    • I recently did in a meet and went 17:04, holding slightly above 1:02s. I can promise you and can investigate my training blog that I never did a set of that distance with rest in workout where I held that pace. Just this week, I was doing 4 x 200 on 2:30 and struggling to hold 2:08/2:09 ... that felt like "race pace" for my workout, but would never qualify as a "race pace" in a meet.
    • My 200 IM SCM time was 2:12 this past season ... the best I could approach on broken 200 IMs in SCY in workout leading up to that meet was about 2:12, which would convert to about 2:25 or so in SCM.

    I rather like the concept of "race effort" in workout versus "race pace" ... otherwise, I'd be constantly disappointed in my workouts.

  18. #1018
    Very Active Member Paul Smith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Tempe, AZ
    Posts
    2,593

    Re: Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster

    Chris S. My bad...it's 25's on :30 not 50's...I corrected my post

    Geek...there is quite a bit of difference between 'core" and doing ab work...figured you guys would no better.

    Jazz...your right I don't think much. But I would have thought you would have a far better understanding of human anatomy and how it relates to swimming...core is absolutley where the power in swimming originates from...and sorry but I'll take the word of every coach I know over your's on this point.

    Listen, it's the sum of all things we've discussed that makes the difference between a world class swimmer and the rest of us. If you think that working your lats and shoulders in the weight room and ignoring technique work that more fully integrates core strength to overall speed then be sure and write a book when you get to that 19+/43+ range in your 50/100.
    I crack myself up. It is jealousy. It is Boredom. I Did not accomplish enough when I was young, and I hate anybody faster/younger than me.

  19. #1019
    Very Active Member aquageek's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    5,628
    Blog Entries
    588

    Re: Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Smith View Post
    Geek...there is quite a bit of difference between 'core" and doing ab work...figured you guys would no better.
    I could have recounted the whole session but figured I would summarize by saying abs. You and Jazzy need to go sweat it out in a mud hut or something, very crabby today.

    Know matter if you no better.

  20. #1020
    CreamPuff
    Guest

    Re: Ande's Swimming Tips: Swimming Faster Faster

    I actually agree w/ Paul on the fly/ core thing.
    Fly is mostly all core.
    Interesting on stroke count - I take 8 strokes fly per 25 (assuming 2-3 SDKs). 9 strokes if I'm being sloppy. 'Course if I choose to SDK for most of the lap (which lo and behold I can actually do now), then my stroke count is very low like 2 to 4 strokes.


    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Smith View Post
    Chris S. My bad...it's 25's on :30 not 50's...I corrected my post

    Geek...there is quite a bit of difference between 'core" and doing ab work...figured you guys would no better.

    Jazz...your right I don't think much. But I would have thought you would have a far better understanding of human anatomy and how it relates to swimming...core is absolutley where the power in swimming originates from...and sorry but I'll take the word of every coach I know over your's on this point.

    Listen, it's the sum of all things we've discussed that makes the difference between a world class swimmer and the rest of us. If you think that working your lats and shoulders in the weight room and ignoring technique work that more fully integrates core strength to overall speed then be sure and write a book when you get to that 19+/43+ range in your 50/100.

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