Ask Ande

[ande]

Sprinting
Sprinters dive with more force, kick harder/faster, and break out with more speed, sprints are about speed, 200's and up are about controlling your effort so you can finish your race well. Many sprinters use underwater dolphin kicks and will stay under longer. Depends how fast their dolphin kick is. Ian Crocker goes pretty far and very fast.

Though if you watch the video where fred went 18.74 he wasn't under very long after the turn.

on breast kick:
concentrate on keeping your knees close together
when you're bringing your feet up for your next kick
I've heard Brendan Hansen sometimes kicks with a pull boy.

ande

Originally posted by SwiminONandON
I've noticed in general sprinters don't tend to spend as much time underwater in free as in longer distance and definitely in fly, back, and breast. Is this my imagination or is there some advantage in sprints to get out and ontop of the water?

Oh and how exactly do I go about making my breaststroke kick narrower?

[Seagurl51]

Ande how can I improve my underwater kicks off the walls? I work on it in practice and I do 25 underwater repeat with fins. As soon as I take off the fins though, it seems like I lose all my forward motion. I've started concentrating on staying longer and starting with my abs, but I still seem to go no where. Right now I can do about 3 off the wall, but I don't think they get me very far.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!

[ande]

I'd have to watch you and see what you're doing wrong.
there's a number of reasons, it has to do with your streamline and your kicking technique and timing.

Don't wear fins

Find someone who kicks well and copy them

start getting timed for 15 meter underwater dolphin sprints.
discover your time and try to beat it

count your kicks

get videoed

thanks for the BD wishes

ande

Originally posted by Seagurl51
Ande how can I improve my underwater kicks off the walls? I work on it in practice and I do 25 underwater repeat with fins. As soon as I take off the fins though, it seems like I lose all my forward motion. I've started concentrating on staying longer and starting with my abs, but I still seem to go no where. Right now I can do about 3 off the wall, but I don't think they get me very far.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!

[SwiminONandON]

I agree with not using fins ...

Kyra, I recomend this ... do a 25 with one underwater dolphin kick, then swim the rest of the 25 fly (or free). Then do the next one with two kicks and so forth. Work on getting upto kicking a 25 underwater fly. And focus on making it a whole body (or nearly) kick.

[fatboy]

Originally posted by ande
Don't wear fins

Ande,

you have mentioned in several posts that you do not recommend fins. I have read that some coaches recommend using fins to build ankle flexibility and leg strength. They usually recommend not using them for all kick sets.

Can you expand on why you don't use fins? Thanks!

[SwiminONandON]

Ande, last night I told my coach, "I've been told my breaststroke kick is too wide, what can we do to change that?" She had be swim breaststroke with a pull bouy it was rather humerous, but it actually started clicking and the entire kick felt better. I got the rhythm a few times here and there, but at least now I've felt it! Just wanted to let you know. Thanks again!

[ande]

i don't wear fins because:

I kick pretty fast with out them,

I try to keep up with people who are wearing fins on kick sets and swim sets with fins,

we don't get to wear fins in a meet,

i don't want to lug any equipment around,

I do sometimes use kick boards to sit on in between sets when we're waiting to hear what the next set is.

Ande

Originally posted by fatboy
Ande,
you have mentioned in several posts that you do not recommend fins. I have read that some coaches recommend using fins to build ankle flexibility and leg strength. They usually recommend not using them for all kick sets.
Can you expand on why you don't use fins? Thanks!

[SwiminONandON]

Fins are like anything else ... it's good in moderation. Too much of a good thing isn't good. You get all addicted and then you can't get through the day with fins. The next thing you know your in FAA (Fin Adicts Anonymous) and your trying to cut back but you can't you have to sell your house to pay for your addiction, your times get slower, you husband divorces you, your kids pretend they don't know, you lose your job ... oh wait, that's something else

Seriously though, I do think using fins in MODERATION (read: not every day, and not for entire sets) is ok. They are like paddles, pull buoys and kick boards ... they help, but shouldn't be depended on. Just my opinion. (and it's rather humble)

[ande]

i recommend kicking some breastroke in each work out,
with no board, arms out in front, try to stretch streamline and glide after each kick.
at least 300 yards
you can break it up
12 x 25, 6 x 50, 4 x 75, 3 x 100, 2 x 150
the more you do it
the better you get at it

also kick on your back in kind of a sitting position and watch your feet and knees.

Ande

Originally posted by SwiminONandON
Ande, last night I told my coach, "I've been told my breaststroke kick is too wide, what can we do to change that?" She had be swim breaststroke with a pull bouy it was rather humerous, but it actually started clicking and the entire kick felt better. I got the rhythm a few times here and there, but at least now I've felt it! Just wanted to let you know. Thanks again!

[SwiminONandON]

Oh, I kick ... a lot! That's one thing that has been very stressed to me! But I am going to add more breaststroke kick to my workouts ... I always, ALWAYS kick breast with out a board ... the only time I use a board really is on flutter kick.

[some_girl]

Okay, I have two questions.

1. The Thread That Ought to Be Left Alone is mostly a giant trainwreck, but there is one point of discussion I am somewhat interested in, minus the recriminations and hostility: Is it possible for someone who began swimming later in life (say, in her twenties) to make competitive times?

2. I swear I kick eight beats when I swim. Is that totally wacked out? I have a weak kick and long long legs that enjoy sinking, so I have to kick fairly fast to keep my legs up. Also, I recently had my kick fixed (the amplitude was too big), so that might have something to do with it. That is, with a smaller kick, I do more in the same amount of time.

[fatboy]

Originally posted by SwiminONandON
You get all addicted and then you can't get through the day with fins. The next thing you know your in FAA (Fin Adicts Anonymous) )

Thanks.... I will be careful. I am already a recovering pull-buoy addict.......

[SwiminONandON]

I find pull buoys and paddles to me highly addictive as well ...

[SwiminONandON]

Originally posted by some_girl
Okay, I have two questions.

1. The Thread That Ought to Be Left Alone is mostly a giant trainwreck, but there is one point of discussion I am somewhat interested in, minus the recriminations and hostility: Is it possible for someone who began swimming later in life (say, in her twenties) to make competitive times?

Do you mean this thread or the other thread which I am now avoiding like the plauge?

I think this thread is great.

Oh, on the eight beat kick, it's probably six, and that will feel fast. In order to have some balance you are going to be kicking an odd number of kicks on each leg.

[ande]

What is "The Thread That Ought to Be Left Alone?"

Is it possible to make competitive times?
Possibly
It is possible for each swimmer to improve themselves.

I think it's possible. but it depends on a lot of ifs:
if the swimmer
+ has talent, some people naturally have beautiful strokes
+ some sort of athletic background,
+ a decent body shape for swimming,
+ intense desire to improve,
+ a strong work ethic,

on your kick
I'd have to see it
when I do a six beat kick
I don't really count my kicks, I just kick fast and strong,
if your arms are moving slow and your legs are kicking fast you could be an 8 beat kicker

train to improve yourself and your health and
you're a winner
regardless of how your times compare with others

ande

Originally posted by some_girl
Okay, I have two questions.

1. The Thread That Ought to Be Left Alone is mostly a giant trainwreck, but there is one point of discussion I am somewhat interested in, minus the recriminations and hostility: Is it possible for someone who began swimming later in life (say, in her twenties) to make competitive times?

2. I swear I kick eight beats when I swim. Is that totally wacked out? I have a weak kick and long long legs that enjoy sinking, so I have to kick fairly fast to keep my legs up. Also, I recently had my kick fixed (the amplitude was too big), so that might have something to do with it. That is, with a smaller kick, I do more in the same amount of time.

[SwiminONandON]

Really, Ande, you have't figure out the thread that should not be named (yeah Harry Potter) ... I think I need to get some sleep, I'm in a very odd mood to day ...

[some_girl]

No, no. This thread is great. I love this thread. I was referring to the thread with much noise and little signal that shall not be named in case it leaches over here.

On the kick, I'm pretty sure it's eight. I do have slow arms and fast legs. In fact, my coach spends a fair amount of time yelling at me to move my arms faster and I hope some day to be strong enough to do just that. Or maybe the water will get lighter. But kicking eight doesn't matter, does it?

[SwiminONandON]

hmm ... I get the opposite, Heather KICK! What? I have legs? Weird? Seriously, I over use my arms and underuse my legs. You should try a spinning drill. Basically let form go to the wind and just move your arms through the water as fast as you can. We do 25s like this as part of a power training set regularly.

PS - Just making sure. This thread rules!

[some_girl]

Hee hee, Heather. I used to overuse my arms because my kick wasn't keeping my end up, but then once it got fixed, I became obsessed with that feeling. So now I have to focus on becoming strong enough to pull as fast as I can kick; the only time I can do that now is when we do our explosive backstroke drill. I'll try the spinning. Though I do recall you being described as very muscular, so I'll bet you find it easier to be faster. Then again, I just started this in January, so nearly everyone finds it easier to be faster than me.

[SwiminONandON]

lol ... we all started somewhere ... I swim like a man for some reason ... by that I mean, I have a stronger upper body than lower body. I can keep right up with the guys on pull sets. Go me! I also do this on fly which is bad ... bad, Heather!

Seriously though, I'm sure you are doing great! Stick with it! You'll get the hang of it.