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Thread: New Gary Hall commerical

  1. #61
    Very Active Member SwiminONandON's Avatar
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    In talking about it Phelps said he and Gary agreed to disagree.

    I'd all but guarantee that Gary would rather not have diabetes than have it and gain some sort of advantage from the insulin shots. Keep in mind that he was diagnosed between the 00 Olympics and the 04 - it's not like he was an average swimmer than suddenly became amazing b/c he started on insulin. He was darn good before his diagnosis and more impressively darn good after.

    All that said it is pretty sad that a 19 year old was more mature than he was ... he whined that Michael didn't earn his relay spot, well neither did he.

  2. #62
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    OK I'll make a few points in this thread.

    first of all, swimming superstars like phelps, amanda, and natalie have put the squeeze on the middle class elite swimmers, because after the superstars are paid, there isn't much left in sponsors budget's for the rest. So the middle class is getting paid less, or dropped.

    So if gary hall and his handlers can get him a gig with barbasol, you go gary. If I was an advertiser, I would be a little leary of Gary because he does have a a mind and a mouth, a history of saying and doing not-so-bright things. Like the telling the aussies they were gonna get smashed like guitars. DON'T Rile your competition, don't give them another reason to want to beat you. It might be the one they needed.

    Next, Gary Hall is one of the most talented human swimmers on this planet. For years he's gotten away with barely training and yet swimming extremely fast. If he trains he'll probably make the 2008 US Olympic squad.

    The shame about gary, is because of his training ethic or lack there of, I believe he left a lot of potential on the table. If he trained as hard as most other elite US sprinters, he probably would hold the record in the 50 and 100 free. He swam one of the fastest ever American 100 free legs on a relay 47 point something. Maybe he'll kick himself when he's 40 and it's too late.

    I do believe that Gary trained fairly hard under mike bottom and that Mike Bottom is an excellent sprint coach.

    It's also a shame Gary didn't step up to the challenge to secure a berth on the olympic relay that night, he needed to go 48 point something and didn't . Neil Walker did. Lezak did.

    It's a shame he bad mouthed the situation, blamed those for the decision, and didn't show up to support his team mates.

    On another point, it's a shame Ian led off the US's 4 x 100 free relay at the olympics. Ian would have been much faster from a flying start, his swim might have seemed a little off but not by a full second. It's also a shame Ian got sick and coaches didn't know he was that off. On an average day he'd be good for a 48 low split.

    Ande


    Originally posted by White Buffalo
    Gary Hall Jr defines everything that is wrong with society and swimming and it is difficult to stomach individuals posting praise for him. Let us look at the data:

    Gary went to UT and went 1.33+ 200 free as a freshman, but dropped out and went back home to Arizona! There is no questioning his talent and what he did at the 1996 and 2000 Olympics. Whether injecting insulin for his diabetes gives him a metabolic advanatage, especially as he ages, is best left for another "thread".

    However, how he conducted himself at the 2004 Olympics was disgraceful! Again, let us carefully look at the accurate data:

    1) He did not get top two in the 100 freestyle at the Olympic trials and did not earn to swim the individual race! The rule was the top two finishers were automatically placed on the 400 freestyle relay and the next 4 swam for the final two places if they hit a certain time! Phelps was the wildcard since he was the National Champion in this event as I recall.
    2) Men's Head coach Ed Reese set up specific guidelines as to what the remaining 4 individuals had to go in the morning relay, 48 something. Gary again had a second chance at getting on the relay and again failed whereas Neal Walker hit the time.
    3) However, my judgment is Gary Sr. has failed at teaching his son personal accountable and so why should the rules apply to Gary Jr. even though he failed twice, he should be entitled to be on the relay!
    4) Ian Crocker was sick and the relay performed poorly with Phelps on it. Gary Jr. violated the conduct code and was not present to support his country, his team and his teammates that night as it is mandatory that all members of the team attend the evening sessions!
    5) Gary Jr. was held accountable and fined for breaking his covenant regarding the rules and requirements to be on the USA Olympic swimming team!
    6) Gary Jr. badmouths Eddie and anyone and everyone with his excuses and what he would have done after failing twice!

    My only regret is that Duje did not beat him in the 50. The beauty about swimming is that it is an objective sport, not subject to the subjective and political nature of diving, gymnastics, etc. This has been eroded recently with the poor handling of relay members, especially by Richard Quick. Hindsight is always 20- 20 and I am certain that Eddie, Mark Schubert and Bob Bowman had no idea that Crocker would swim so poorly. However, in hindsight, keeping Gary Jr. off the relay after his failing to earn his way on it twice, his embarrassing behavior afterwards by a grown man and his self justification along with his father's support is symbolic of the victim and "self-entitlement" behavior prevalent in our society today! One thing is for cetain in my opinion: 21+ in the 50 and the inability to break 49 in the 100 demonstrates that no matter how much talent one is, they still have to have background!Maybe Gary Jr. out to take a look at that shadow, since he has choosen not to train properly for the 100 and go 47+!

  3. #63
    Very Active Member Sam Perry's Avatar
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    Ande,

    Have you seen Gary train since he left Austin in 1996? I watched the entire group train here in Phoenix in 2000. I can assure you they trained (and raced) their butts off.

    Is he training as much as Phelps? Obviously not. But to make a statement that he barely trains is a bit much unless you travel to Miami and watch him yourself. I honestly haven't seen him train since 2000, but he does something right.

    It may not always be in the pool, I believe the 50 free requires more than just swimming ability. It seems to me the best athletes are the sprinters. If you don't agree with me, think of the distance guy. Does he do it because he wants to or does he do it because he can't sprint as fast as the sprinters.

    Call me a whimp, but I would choose the 50 free over any other event to specialize in all day long!

  4. #64
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    "Does he do it because he wants to or does he do it because he can't sprint as fast as the sprinters. "

    Good question Sam! Conversely, do the sprinters swim sprint events because they can't take the grind of the mile or beat the distance guys?

  5. #65
    Very Active Member geochuck's Avatar
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    Tom

    It may not be too complicated. I changed from middle distance swimming, 200, 440, 1 mile (which I won all the time) to sprinting because I could not train more than 500 yards hard without going unconcious, in fact out cold after swimming 200 yards in my first 440 after being diagnosed diabetic.
    Keep it simple George Park
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  6. #66
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    Training

    Sam,

    If you compared Gary's training to someone like say Neil Walker...... you'd be surprised at the differences. Trust me, I've seen Neil train in Austin. It's jaw dropping.

    Ande's not saying Gary doesn't do any training or has never done any hard training in his life. He's saying he generally doesn't do as much training as his competitors....... especially in the water.

    The Raz (Ande) is actually "dead on" in many of his comments.

    As far as the 50 free is concerned, I personally enjoy swimming it now as an old man. It's amusing and kind of pathetic to see old people sprint all out hard...... :-) But to be totally honest with you...... The 50 free is basically a controlled accident. There are a few guys that can truly dominate the event like Mr. Bisquet at NCAAs...... I'd bet my house that if you swam that same heat at Athens Olympics 4 times over 4 days you'd have at leat 3 different winners. You can't say that about the other events.

    Truth be known....... events 100 and above usually carry more respect from a training perspective at Sr. Nationals. The 50 is a great event with an egomanical approach, but its still somewhat a novelty when compared to REAL training for 100s and above.


    John Smith

  7. #67
    Very Active Member valhallan's Avatar
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    Re: Training

    Originally posted by TheGoodSmith
    The 50 free is basically a controlled accident.


    That's priceless.

  8. #68
    Very Active Member geochuck's Avatar
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    You have to be a skilled swimmer and apply the principle of POWER SWIMMING to win a 50 and it is no accident.
    Keep it simple George Park
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  9. #69
    USMS Member since 2003 gull's Avatar
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    Originally posted by geochuck
    I changed from middle distance swimming, 200, 440, 1 mile (which I won all the time) to sprinting because I could not train more than 500 yards hard without going unconcious, in fact out cold after swimming 200 yards in my first 440 after being diagnosed diabetic.
    Then, of course, you began experiencing the performance-enhancing effects of insulin, right?

  10. #70
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    Geochuck

    Don't get the hair on your back ruffled.

    Hey, I love the 50 free. I swim it occasionally myself even as an old man...... But the truth is ..... the 50 free is best be described as.... "controlled bizerk". It's raw speed and panic all balled up in ego with a touch of self control. The guy who flinches at any point in the races loses.

    The 50 free is more a function of attitude than other events which rely on a significantly more amount of pool time training.

    I guess it comes down to your definition of training and being in shape...... is it aerobic or anaerobic.


    John Smith

  11. #71
    Very Active Member geochuck's Avatar
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    Originally posted by gull80
    Then, of course, you began experiencing the performance-enhancing effects of insulin, right?
    Unfortunately or not? I am type 2 no insulin, just glyburide and metformin.
    Keep it simple George Park
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  12. #72
    Very Active Member valhallan's Avatar
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    That's very true George. The 50 is a specialty event which involves great technique, hair trigger starts, and lightning touch finishes.... aside from extreme conditioning.

    I think Mr. Smith was implying that when the race comes down to the hundreths, if not thousandths of a second.....and when a heat of ten are crashing into the wall at the same time,.... it's essentially a crap shoot to see who touched out who.

  13. #73
    Very Active Member geochuck's Avatar
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    Re: Geochuck

    Originally posted by TheGoodSmith
    Don't get the hair on your back ruffled.
    is it aerobic or anaerobic. John Smith
    I call it anti-aerobic.
    Keep it simple George Park
    Swimsuit Sale http://www.swimdownhill.com/index.html

  14. #74
    USMS Member since 2003 gull's Avatar
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    I'd consider it fortunate that you're a Type II. Type I diabetics (like Gary Hall) have a much higher risk of retinopathy (leading to blindness), nephropathy (leading to renal failure), peripheral vascular disease (leading to amputations), and premature heart disease.

  15. #75
    Very Active Member aquageek's Avatar
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    Originally posted by gull80
    I'd consider it fortunate that you're a Type II. Type I diabetics (like Gary Hall) have a much higher risk of retinopathy (leading to blindness), nephropathy (leading to renal failure), peripheral vascular disease (leading to amputations), and premature heart disease.
    gull:

    Give me a break! Don't you realize these aren't potential complications of diabetes, they are added benefits of getting to take the wildly popular performance enhancing drug insulin. GET WITH THE PROGRAM!

  16. #76
    USMS Member since 2003 gull's Avatar
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    Actually I was considering the Race Club's Masters swim camp at Islamorada, but now I'm afraid they'll pump me full of insulin on the way to the weight room. On the other hand, since Hall barely trains, it might be a nice vacation.

  17. #77
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    Aquageek

    Question:

    Are you saying athletes that inject insulin that do not have diabetes fail to gain a metabolic advantage?

    Or, are you saying that diabetics that inject insulin fail to gain a metabolic advantage?

    Or are you saying there is no performance enhancing advantage to insulin for anyone what so ever?


    John Smith

  18. #78
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    gull80 and geochuck,
    Either one of you an MD?

  19. #79
    Very Active Member geochuck's Avatar
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    Originally posted by dead fish
    gull80 and geochuck,
    Either one of you an MD?
    No for geochuck but Gull80 is I believe.
    Keep it simple George Park
    Swimsuit Sale http://www.swimdownhill.com/index.html

  20. #80
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    He should get his money back

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