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Thread: Backstroke turn rule change

  1. #1
    Very Active Member LindsayNB's Avatar
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    Backstroke turn rule change

    Is there a stated intention for the change to the backstroke turn change? The change deletes one sentence and changes the order of the other sentences. Does the deletion of the sentence indicate that you are now allowed to glide before starting the pull or was it simply considered redundant?

    New SW 6.4 When executing the turn there must be a touch of the wall with some part of the swimmer’s body. During the turn the shoulders may be turned over the vertical to the breast after which a continuous single arm pull or a continuous simultaneous double arm pull may be used to initiate the turn. The swimmer must have returned to the position on the back upon leaving the wall.

    Old SW 6.4 During the turn the shoulders may be turned over the vertical to the breast after which a continuous single are pull or a continuous simultaneous double are pull may be used to initiate the turn. Once the body has left the position on the back, any kick or arm pull must be part of the continuous turning action. The swimmer must have returned to the position on the back upon leaving a wall. When executing a turn there must be a touch of the wall with some part of the swimmers body.

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    Very Active Member Conniekat8's Avatar
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    IS this the USA Swimming Rule change?

    There were no rule changes or verbiage housekeeping in Masters this year, with respect to backstroke turn.

    The only rule changes for this year in USMS are here:
    http://www.usms.org/admin/minutes/rules-2005-9-18-4.pdf

    USA rules don't automatically become USMS Rules.
    -Connie
    I'd rather be swimming http://www.mastersmvnswim.org/

  3. #3
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    What you highlighted in the old rule seemed to be repetitive, Lindsay. I think that's why it was deleted.

  4. #4
    Very Active Member LindsayNB's Avatar
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    Connie: the change is to the FINA rules. I don't know if FINA rule changes are automatically adopted by USMS but they would apply to international competitions including next year's masters world championships.

    Jeff: thanks, I suspect you are right. It would be nice if rule changes came with published explanations so that people wouldn't have to guess the intent.

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    Very Active Member Conniekat8's Avatar
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    Connie: the change is to the FINA rules. I don't know if FINA rule changes are automatically adopted by USMS but they would apply to international competitions including next year's masters world championships.

    No, they're not automatic. USMS decides on it's own rules.
    Coincidentally your question came just couple of days of the USMS convention where some minor USMS rule changes were made...
    -Connie
    I'd rather be swimming http://www.mastersmvnswim.org/

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    Very Active Member Bob McAdams's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Jeff Commings
    What you highlighted in the old rule seemed to be repetitive, Lindsay. I think that's why it was deleted.
    Actually, I suspect that the old rule was originally intended to allow a glide after the roll past the vertical to the breast and before the start of the continuous turning action, and the now-omitted sentence was intended to state that swimmers were not allowed to stroke or kick during that glide. But as far as I can determine, FINA and USA swimming referees have for some time been regarding the roll past the vertical to be part of the turning action, so that a glide after the roll would mean that the turning action was not continuous. And if that is the interpretation they are going to give it, then the second sentence in the old rule becomes superfluous.


    Bob

  7. #7
    Very Active Member PeirsolFan's Avatar
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    It's very confusing and extremely frustrating. I just make sure that once I roll into the free position, everything is done at the same time. When leaving the wall after the turn, I have yet to see someone not glide for several seconds before kicking. Hmm...

    Another point of contention that seems to understood differently by every person I ask is this: you can (or can't) dolphin kick on your back to reach the finish wall. Clarifications please.
    "If I turn out to be particularly clear, you've probably misunderstood what I said." - Alan Greenspan

  8. #8
    Active Member sibleyclan's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Bob McAdams
    But as far as I can determine, FINA and USA swimming referees have for some time been regarding the roll past the vertical to be part of the turning action, so that a glide after the roll would mean that the turning action was not continuous.
    That is, indeed, what I was taught and how I've called the turns in meets (1 Masters, rest USA Swimming) for the last 9 months. 1) Once the roll was completed, the pull had to be initiated and 2) once the hand (or hands) reached the side, initiation of the flip had to be in progress, even if it was only head motion at that point.

    When leaving the wall after the turn, I have yet to see someone not glide for several seconds before kicking.
    Not a problem -- Once you leave the wall, the turn is completed and your in the swim again so a glide is completely permissable.

    Another point of contention that seems to understood differently by every person I ask is this: you can (or can't) dolphin kick on your back to reach the finish wall. Clarifications please.
    Permissable by my understanding. Backstroke is essentially "freestyle on the back" with no particular stroke or kick either mandated or disallowed. You can do elementary backstroke if you want, you just have to be on your back.

  9. #9
    Very Active Member Bob McAdams's Avatar
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    Originally posted by sibleyclan
    Another point of contention that seems to understood differently by every person I ask is this: you can (or can't) dolphin kick on your back to reach the finish wall. Clarifications please.
    Permissable by my understanding. Backstroke is essentially "freestyle on the back" with no particular stroke or kick either mandated or disallowed. You can do elementary backstroke if you want, you just have to be on your back.
    While the rules place no restrictions on what kind of stroke you do, as long as you are on your back, rule 101.4.2 says that:

    "Some part of the swimmer must break the surface of the water throughout the race, except it shall be permissable for the swimmer to be completely submerged during the turn, at the finish, and for a distance of not more than 15 meters (16.4 yards) after the start and after each turn. By that point, the head must have broken the surface of the water."

    Since a dolphin kick is normally done underwater, it is normally illegal to do it past the 15 meter mark on each lap. But the question is what, exactly, is meant by "at the finish". Does this mean that you can dolphin kick underwater into the finish? If so, how far?

    I would understand the answer to be defined by rule 101.4.4:

    "Upon the finish of the race, the swimmer must touch the wall while on the back. The body may be submerged at the touch."

    Note that it says "at the touch." I would understand this to mean that the swimmer is allowed to lunge underwater as he/she touches the wall, but that his/her body must have been breaking the surface prior to that.


    Bob

  10. #10
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    I thought that the rule change was to accomadate Peirsol.

  11. #11
    Very Active Member PeirsolFan's Avatar
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    Thanks Bob! That makes more sense. People are so afraid of getting DQ'ed over starts and turns it leads to misinformation. The only people I've seen submerged and kicking towards finish walls are usually women.

    Craig, you must be thinking of the Kitajima fiasco which was related to the breastroke. Although Peirsol did have trouble with the 3rd turn in races and admitted it on the Today show, he never broke the rules.
    "If I turn out to be particularly clear, you've probably misunderstood what I said." - Alan Greenspan

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