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Thread: Help My Flutter Kick is Horrible!

  1. #621
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    Re: Help My Flutter Kick is Horrible!

    Learn proper technique, focus on swimming correctly
    get 1 on 1 swim technique instruction
    watch videos

    get your self videoed while swimming
    post it on youtube.
    provide a link and ask for feedback

    kicking is important but novices tend to over kick



    Quote Originally Posted by dsg10715 View Post
    Hi Ande,

    Ive been reading through this long thread. Im fairly new to swimming and working on 1:50 average per 100m. Starting to learn hw to work out enough instead of just swimming mindlessly. Ive been working on my catch and pull quite a bit but have come to the conclusionthat my kicking which I can feel isnt particularly strong is causing me to veer from side to side, and ultimately not swim freestyle as fast as I would like. I think my legs lack a lot of fitness, why do you say I should not strengthen them with fins and alternate with kickboard?

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    Re: Help My Flutter Kick is Horrible!

    50 LCM flutter kick for time:


    • 4|03|14 44 mid
    • 3|24|14 45 mid
    • 3|10|14 46 low

    from a push, no board, with snorkel


    • 3|12|19: 0:55 +11 seconds


    From push, with board and snorkel.

    Time to get this going again





  3. #623
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    Re: Help My Flutter Kick is Horrible!

    50LCM flutter kick

    • 3|12|19: 0:55


    • 3|19|19: 0:52

  4. #624
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    Re: Help My Flutter Kick is Horrible!

    This is a very helpful thread and I want to thank Ande.

    I noticed today that when I just "kick".....I go nowhere!!! This thread will be my friend going forward.
    Current PRs: 25m-:16.8/50m-:36.5/100m-1:21.0/200m-2:55.5/400m-6:15/800m-12:50/1600m-26:37.

    My main swimming goal: Sub6min 400m by the end of 2019.

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    Re: Help My Flutter Kick is Horrible!

    50LCM flutter kick

    • 3|12|19: 0:55


    • 3|19|19: 0:52 (wetsuit)
    • 3|28|19: 0:51(wetsuit)
    Last edited by __steve__; October 25th, 2019 at 10:03 PM.

  6. #626
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    Re: Help My Flutter Kick is Horrible!

    I've been coaching and teaching since 2015. I would emphasize that the key to propulsion in kicking is the loose ankle, and relaxed, following leg from the thigh down. If you have flexible ankles you will get propulsion. The top of the foot is the only part that really propulses in the kick, and the flexible ankle provides the correct angle for that part to do its job. For most folks, the kick is a mystery, but without the flexible ankle, the top of the foot acts as a brake rather than a propulsor. smooth and small is the key.
    DrMikey

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    Re: Help My Flutter Kick is Horrible!

    Congrats keep going
    Quote Originally Posted by __steve__ View Post
    50LCM flutter kick

    • 3|12|19: 0:55


    • 3|19|19: 0:52
    • 3|28|19: 0:51

  8. #628
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    Re: Help My Flutter Kick is Horrible!

    Flexible Ankles are part of kicking faster, some people have flexible feet and can bend their feet below the ankle from mid foot down
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeGarr View Post
    I've been coaching and teaching since 2015. I would emphasize that the key to propulsion in kicking is the loose ankle, and relaxed, following leg from the thigh down. If you have flexible ankles you will get propulsion. The top of the foot is the only part that really propulses in the kick, and the flexible ankle provides the correct angle for that part to do its job. For most folks, the kick is a mystery, but without the flexible ankle, the top of the foot acts as a brake rather than a propulsor. smooth and small is the key.

  9. #629
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    Re: Help My Flutter Kick is Horrible!

    Quote Originally Posted by Skuj View Post
    This is a very helpful thread and I want to thank Ande.

    I noticed today that when I just "kick".....I go nowhere!!! This thread will be my friend going forward.
    I just want to add that nothing in the above quote has changed for me in 6 months. (But I went from about 7:15 to 6:15 400m in this period.)

    What % of importance will gaining an ability to "flutter kick" mean?
    Current PRs: 25m-:16.8/50m-:36.5/100m-1:21.0/200m-2:55.5/400m-6:15/800m-12:50/1600m-26:37.

    My main swimming goal: Sub6min 400m by the end of 2019.

  10. #630
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    Re: Help My Flutter Kick is Horrible!

    10/24/19 50LCM flutter kick 0:50 (shaved)

    From 0:55 to 0:50 in one week after shaving (especially the arms!) and wearing a 6 year old tech suit jammer.
    Last edited by __steve__; October 26th, 2019 at 01:57 AM.

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    Re: Help My Flutter Kick is Horrible!

    10|31|19
    50 LCM flutter kick 0:49

  12. #632
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    Re: Help My Flutter Kick is Horrible!

    11|5|19
    50LCM flutter kick 0:48
    with snorkel without board

  13. #633
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    Re: Help My Flutter Kick is Horrible!

    Quote Originally Posted by Skuj View Post

    I noticed today that when I just "kick".....I go nowhere!!!
    I'm curious - Do you mean literally nowhere? Or you just talking about, say, a 3 minute 25 yd?

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    Re: Help My Flutter Kick is Horrible!


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    Re: Help My Flutter Kick is Horrible!

    Quote Originally Posted by MickYoung View Post
    I'm curious - Do you mean literally nowhere? Or you just talking about, say, a 3 minute 25 yd?

    Nowhere!! (In fact, maybe I go backwards slightly.)
    Current PRs: 25m-:16.8/50m-:36.5/100m-1:21.0/200m-2:55.5/400m-6:15/800m-12:50/1600m-26:37.

    My main swimming goal: Sub6min 400m by the end of 2019.

  16. #636
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    Re: Help My Flutter Kick is Horrible!

    Quote Originally Posted by Skuj View Post
    Nowhere!! (In fact, maybe I go backwards slightly.)
    Your ankles are bad. I can almost guarantee it.
    400 IMer/200 backstroker in another life, now sprinter/breaststroker... Yeah, I don't know how that happened either!

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    Re: Help My Flutter Kick is Horrible!

    Can you at least point your toes down far enough to be roughly in line with your shin? If so, then it will just take practice.

    I was in my early 40s when I learned to swim, and after a year I still could not kick worth a shier. My feet would start sinking to where they touched the bottom, but I eventually got the hang of it.

    There was a forum member years back when forums were popular, a distance guy, who actually did not kick at all while swimming. His legs and feet just trail behind him motionless, like 2 tails. It is quite a successful technique for him. Hed also blast a 50 in same manner. I swim mostly just 50s at meets, and I rely on a decently conditioned kick

  18. #638
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    Re: Help My Flutter Kick is Horrible!

    Quote Originally Posted by JPEnge View Post
    Your ankles are bad. I can almost guarantee it.
    I agree. 45 years of hardcore running. I'm working on this.
    Current PRs: 25m-:16.8/50m-:36.5/100m-1:21.0/200m-2:55.5/400m-6:15/800m-12:50/1600m-26:37.

    My main swimming goal: Sub6min 400m by the end of 2019.

  19. #639
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    Re: Help My Flutter Kick is Horrible!

    Quote Originally Posted by __steve__ View Post
    Can you at least point your toes down far enough to be roughly in line with your shin? If so, then it will just take practice.

    I was in my early 40s when I learned to swim, and after a year I still could not kick worth a shier. My feet would start sinking to where they touched the bottom, but I eventually got the hang of it.

    There was a forum member years back when forums were popular, a distance guy, who actually did not kick at all while swimming. His legs and feet just trail behind him motionless, like 2 tails. It is quite a successful technique for him. Hed also blast a 50 in same manner. I swim mostly just 50s at meets, and I rely on a decently conditioned kick
    The answer to the first question is a definite "no", but thanks to this forum (Elaine!) I am doing exercises/stretching which helps.

    I've sometimes wondered if NOT KICKING is actually faster for me.

    I will keep working on this. I hope that in a year or so, I can say that kicking gives me a 1-2% boost in what I do.

    The people in this thread that do do sub50sec 50m just kicking.......are you from another planet?
    Current PRs: 25m-:16.8/50m-:36.5/100m-1:21.0/200m-2:55.5/400m-6:15/800m-12:50/1600m-26:37.

    My main swimming goal: Sub6min 400m by the end of 2019.

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    Re: Help My Flutter Kick is Horrible!

    25m flutter kick timed (estimated where 25m was in LC setup) 0:21

    100m flutter kick timed 2:20
    • 25m splits: 0:27, 0:32, 0:40, 0:41


    I looked up at one of the three pace clocks to get the splits. If I work on 75s and 100s, maybe the back side of my 50s would improve and help my 50 time. But that 100 was an acid bomb. The 25m was very slow for me, I should be in the 19s, but I havent done a timed 25 in years, or maybe it was just a bad attempt
    Last edited by __steve__; November 10th, 2019 at 09:50 PM.

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