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Thread: How to increase my stroke rate

  1. #1
    Very Active Member okoban's Avatar
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    How to increase my stroke rate

    I am a 38 year old man swimming 3-4 times a week. I will attend a contest in early June this year. It is 200 meters free in a 50 meter pool. Last year I swam this race in 3 minutes and 3 seconds. This year my goal to be around 2 minutes and 45 seconds. I take 30 strokes and 40 seconds for 50 meters (in a 25meter pool) and I take 35 strokes and 40 seconds in a 50 meter pool (these are my sprint scores). I think my main problem is my stroke rate which is very slow. How can I increase it? Whenever I try to increase my stroke rate, my strokes becomes shorter and I lift my head up. My normal workout is 400-500 meters warm-up, 1600-1800 main set and 400-500 meters cool-down. My questions are:
    1. Is there a ready to use workout program that you can recommend me?
    2. How can I increase my stroke rate without deteriorating my style?
    Thanks a lot in advance
    Last edited by okoban; January 12th, 2007 at 05:27 PM.

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    Participating Member joesflyer's Avatar
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    Post Re: How to increase my stroke rate

    okoban,
    First I assume your technique is prety good. 15 strokes per length is good. You will find that as you increase your stroke rate you will lose some technique. I guess it's a trade off. I would try repeat 100s on 1:30 or less. As you swim them break up the lengths in your mind so that the first length is a sprint, 2nd length focus on stretching out the arms and reaching, 3rd you'll push that kick and 4th you'll bring it home stretching out and keeping your head down the last 3 strokes. I think that by breaking it up you get a fresh perspective for each length. When you feel you're making progress try the same for a series of 150's. When you get to the 200s try breaking it up in your mind to 4 50's and think about them like your 100's. I would try maybe 3 200's in this fashion. Then you might warm down with 2 200's broken up with 75 free sprint, 50 relaxed, 25 sprint, 25 relaxed, 25 sprint. You could substitute different strokes here like, 75 free, 50 breast, 25 free, 25 breast, 25 free.

    I don't have a regular workout but if you incorporate this into your current yardage you might have some success. Good luck. Andy
    Last edited by joesflyer; December 17th, 2006 at 07:02 PM. Reason: Work on keeping the head down.

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    Very Active Member LindsayNB's Avatar
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    Re: How to increase my stroke rate

    Quote Originally Posted by okoban View Post
    I think my main problem is my stroke rate which is very slow. How can I increase it? Whenever I try to increase my stroke rate, my strokes becomes shorter and I lift my head up.
    2. How can I increase my stroke rate without deteriorating my style?
    What happens to your time if you let your stroke count go up by a few? Are you faster, slower, or the same? Trading more strokes for faster times is the norm, a faster time with a higher stroke count is not a deterioration!

    Doing a 2:45 for 200 will be quite challenging if your top speed for a 50 is 40s. You will likely have to find a way to lower your 50 time before starting work on the 200.

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    Re: How to increase my stroke rate

    Have you had anyone observe your stroke? It's taking you about 1 1/4 seconds/stroke; that's a lifetime. Assuming that you flipturn, adding only three strokes when you take out the wall seems odd too.

    Things to ask yourself:

    Are your arms tired when you finish a 50 sprint?
    Are your legs tired when you finish a 50 sprint?
    How many breaths do you take in a 50 sprint?
    After completing a stroke, are you executing a long glide?
    Are you tagging up your arms?
    Are you utilizing your hand and forearm as a single paddle or just pulling with your hands?
    Are you kicking, and how much per every stroke?
    Are your legs scissoring, bending at the knees, or separating width-wise when they kick?
    What are your times with flippers?
    What are your times with paddles?
    Although your average is 1 1/4 seconds/stroke, what is your time per stroke during a breath as compared to during a non-breath stroke?
    Are you lifting your head out of the water or flipping all the way on your side or back during breaths or just turning your head?
    Eyes down or forward when you are swimming?
    What's your 50 sprint time with just legs in streamline?
    What's your 50 sprint time with just arms and your legs limp or crossed?

    That's all I can think of right now, but the answers to those questions should put you on the right track.

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    Very Active Member okoban's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Re: How to increase my stroke rate

    First of all, thanks a lot to three coaches for the help.
    Andy, your advices seems very helpful, I will surely apply all of these.
    Lindsay, when my stroke count goes up, my stroke length decreases causing nearly the same speed and much more fatique.
    Sean, here are the answers to your questions:
    Are your arms tired when you finish a 50 sprint?
    No, I can do a lot of 50's on 42-43 seconds with a rest interval of 1/1
    Are your legs tired when you finish a 50 sprint?
    No, they are not, but I know that I am more focused on my stroke and my kicks are a bit ignored. I can do 50 meter kick in 60 seconds best. I can do 200 kick in 4minutes and 20 seconds.
    How many breaths do you take in a 50 sprint?
    I take 9-10 breaths.
    After completing a stroke, are you executing a long glide?
    Yes, I think I can not do my rotation quickly.
    Are you tagging up your arms?
    It is the technique described in Mr Hines's book.
    Are you utilizing your hand and forearm as a single paddle or just pulling with your hands?
    Yes coach, you've got the point, I think just use my hands.
    Are you kicking, and how much per every stroke?
    3 kicks per stroke.
    Are your legs scissoring, bending at the knees, or separating width-wise when they kick?
    I think my kicks are proper (maybe not powerfull).
    What are your times with flippers?
    My 50 sprint becomes 5 seconds better.
    What are your times with paddles?
    No improvement in speed, stroke count decreases by 4 strokes per 50.
    Although your average is 1 1/4 seconds/stroke, what is your time per stroke during a breath as compared to during a non-breath stroke?
    No difference, I can breath from both sides easily and in the workouts (if not a sprint set) I use 3 strokes per breath.
    Are you lifting your head out of the water or flipping all the way on your side or back during breaths or just turning your head?
    I try to flip all the way on my side during breaths.
    Eyes down or forward when you are swimming?
    Down.
    What's your 50 sprint time with just legs in streamline?
    5 seconds worse than a normal sprint with a pull buoy.
    What's your 50 sprint time with just arms and your legs limp or crossed?
    I don't know.
    Thanks again

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    Re: How to increase my stroke rate

    No, I can do a lot of 50's on 42-43 seconds with a rest interval of 1/1

    hand and forearm as a single paddle ... I think just use my hands.
    A long glide? Yes, I think I can not do my rotation quickly.

    tagging up ... It is the technique described in Mr Hines's book.
    with paddles? ... No improvement in speed, stroke count decreases by 4 strokes per 50.

    When you pull, you should not rely on just your hands to do the pulling. You should keep your hands and forearms in line as much as possible, so you can maximize the force exerted by using your hands and forearms as one. Further, you should keep in mind that when you pull, though stroke rate is very important, the object of the stroke is not to get your arms from one location to the next but to get the water from one location to the next. So, simply moving your arms fast won't cut it (literally). You need to ensure that every muscle in your arms is pushing that water as hard and as quickly as it can. There is a phenomenon that is witnessed in teaching people back flipturns. They come up with their number of strokes it takes them to get from the backstroke flags to the wall, and then they try to execute their first back flipturn. Almost always, such a swimmer will find him or herself miles away from the wall when the stroke number comes up. Why? It's because the force exerted per pull changed. They may have moved their arms just as fast, but without exerting the same amount of force, they just couldn't go as far with the same number of strokes. (It's generally because the swimmer consciously changed the force to compensate for a fear of hitting the wall.) Glide in freestyle I think is a controversial topic. However, this is my thought on the matter. As one pulls underwater, there is a tendency to not complete the stroke before pulling up the elbow. I think this is because the overarm recovery is faster to get to the finish point than the underwater pull is. Rather than follow the lead of the overarm, follow the lead of the underwater arm. Finsih out that pull. Doing so, you will find that there is a bit of a glide with the overarm. Use that time to stretch the overarm as far forward as possible. However, as soon as your underwater arm has completed a full stroke and is fairly straight-elbowed again, the arm-stroke cycle must remain continuous. There should be no point where both arms are at rest. Freestyle is a perpetual-motion stroke. When one leg is kicking down, the other must be recovering up. When one elbow is at 12 'o' clock, the other must be pulling past 6 'o' clock. When one's at 9, the other must be at 3. Tagging your hands up at the glide point of the overarm is a good drill, but it is not good competition. Your arms must always be antipoles. 1/1 work to rest is too much. If you want to get faster, you should challenge yourself. For instance, you could do 10 50 sprints on a minute (wherein the minute per 50 contemplates that any leftover time on the clock after a 50 is your rest time before the next 50). Your forearms (and legs) should feel completely spent after that. Do a 100 free at 75% to rest, then get back to work.


    Are your legs tired ... No, they are not, but I know that I am more focused on my stroke and my kicks are a bit ignored. I can do 50 meter kick in 60 seconds best. I can do 200 kick in 4minutes and 20 seconds.
    3 kicks per stroke.
    I think my kicks are proper (maybe not powerfull).
    with flippers? ... My 50 sprint becomes 5 seconds better.
    just legs in streamline? ...5 seconds worse than a normal sprint with a pull buoy.

    It sounds as if your legs do a fairly good job when isolated. Knees should be straight but allowed to sway a bit like saplings in the wind. Toes pointed. You should try to keep feet from breaking the surface very much. You get nowhere kicking air. Kicks also shouldn't extend very far down. Legs' contribution to the stroke is as much thrust as it is maintaining streamline. Breaking streamline significantly with exaggerated kicks will hurt your speed and efficiency. Again, keep in mind that the purpose of the kicks is not to displace body parts but to displace water. As such, be sure to put the appropriate amount of force into each kick. Kicking workouts should exhaust your legs quickly. 3 kicks per stroke is solid, but I've heard of elite swimmers with six-kicks. Small, powerful kicks will allow for more kicks per stroke. After doing the set above, repeat the set at 75 second intervals for another 10, but with just legs (flippers if necessary) and in streamline position. Then another 100 free at 75%.


    with just arms and your legs limp or crossed? ... I don't know.

    Try it. Everyone uses buoys, which are great for keeping your legs in streamline while you pull. However, if you don't have the buoy, then your legs will naturally sink. The only way to get them back up into streamline is by increasing velocity -- pulling harder. It's sink or swim. Because you are new at the drill, give yourself 75 second intervals for another 10 50 sprints, but this time with just arms and legs limp or crossed. Then another 100 free at 75%.


    I take 9-10 breaths.
    time per stroke during a breath ... No difference, I can breath from both sides easily and in the workouts (if not a sprint set) I use 3 strokes per breath.
    I try to flip all the way on my side during breaths.

    3 strokes/breath is textbook, not competition. In a 50 free, many won't breathe at all. Try to drop your number of breaths. Breaths suck up time as well as air. Don't get dizzy or knock yourself out, but is only two breaths/length too much to ask? Also, I tend to advocate that swimmers twist their shoulders a bit to breathe, but not their trunk. I've heard some coaches argue a complete turn to the side, though. So, make your own call, there. Turning completely on one's side disrupts the streamline effect too much, I think. By turning completely on one's side, it seems to me that the same physics apply as on one's breast, just turned 90 degrees to the side. Whereas, twisting only the shoulders takes one shoulder above the water entirely, taking it out of the equation, and allows for better elbow lift while at the same time allowing the other arm to extend out for just a little more reach. Turning completely on one's side will sink one's equilibrium too much, negating one's ability to keep the upward-facing side over the water and out of the equation. While hypoxic workouts have come under fire as not successfully building vo2max, they still do train swimmers to swim hypoxically during a sprint, which is useful. Do 10 50 sprints on 60 in this order:
    1st 50: 3 strokes/breath
    2nd: 5 strokes per preath
    3rd: 7 strokes per breath
    4th: 5 strokes per breath
    5th: 7 strokes per breath
    6th: 5 strokes per breath
    7th: 3 strokes per breath
    8th: 3 strokes per breath
    9th: 5 strokes per breath
    10th: 5 strokes per breath
    Then do a regular 100 free at 75%.


    Eyes down


    good.

    So, the workout I recommend is:

    stretch 5 min.
    200 choice warmup
    10 50 sprints on 60
    100 free at 75%
    stretch 1 min.
    10 50 streamline kick sprints on 75
    100 free at 75%
    stretch 1 min.
    10 50 just-arms sprints (no buoy) on 75
    100 free at 75%
    stretch 1 min.
    10 50 sprints hypoxic. specifically consisting of:
    1st 50: 3 strokes/breath
    2nd: 5 strokes per preath
    3rd: 7 strokes per breath
    4th: 5 strokes per breath
    5th: 7 strokes per breath
    6th: 5 strokes per breath
    7th: 3 strokes per breath
    8th: 3 strokes per breath
    9th: 5 strokes per breath
    10th: 5 strokes per breath
    100 free at 75%
    stretch 1 min.
    200 choice cooldown
    stretch 5 min.

    That's 2800 yards of freestyle sprinty goodness. If you find that some of the times are completely unrealistic, you are your own coach. Adjust the interval times as you require. Same if they are too generous. Also, remember, the way you practice is the way you compete. Everything you do, you should do with an eye toward honing your skills. So, you should implement the tips I mentioned as you swim. Bad practice is bad form. If you are going to practice the way you always do rather than working toward skill improvement, then you are just drilling bad form into your head and muscle memory. I would not recommend doing this same workout every day, but twice or even thrice a week between other workouts would be useful.

    --Sean

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    Very Active Member okoban's Avatar
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    Smile Re: How to increase my stroke rate

    Thanks Sean, it is much more than I expected. I will try the workout today and post a reply. You're great. I hope that it will be helpful for some other swimmers facing the same problem.

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    Very Active Member okoban's Avatar
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    Re: How to increase my stroke rate

    Hi Sean, I did the practice this morning. My legs and arms were totally finished after the workout.
    I swam in a 50 meter pool,
    In the first set, (free spirint) my average was 45 seconds (42 to 47) and 40 strokes (but I had to have an extra rest of 30 seconds after 5th spirint)
    Second set (kick spirint) average 65(60 to 68) seconds, I had an extra rest of 20 seconds after 5th.
    Third set (just arms, no pull buoy), average 52 seconds and 50 strokes
    4th set (3-5-7 strokes per breath), 50 seconds and 45 strokes, but I did this set in 75 seconds (you did not mention about the rest interval for this, but if you would say 60 seconds, I would be in hospital now )
    Total 2,800 meters of workout took me 75 minutes.
    In the stretching part (in the pool during the rest intervals) I just stretch my arms from shoulder; is this what you mean or some other stretching?
    I will do this set once or twice a week and share the results in here. By the way I hope some other members do the similar sets and share the results with us (I'm so lonely in Istanbul to share my workouts)

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    Re: How to increase my stroke rate

    75 min for 2800 meters. That's not a bad run.

    Sounds like you could drop the just arms portion to 65 seconds.

    75 seconds for the hypoxics seems a bit too generous. Maybe try 70 instead.

    When I say stretch, I mean stretch whatever needs stretching. Presumably, after an arms drill, you'll need to stretch your arms, for instance. But you may also feel the need to stretch your legs. Vice versa for the kick drills. And for the drills utilizing arms and legs, I would presume that you would stretch arms and legs. Be sure not to shortchange yourself on the stretching. When you are running through an aggressive workout, stretching can make all the difference between getting out and not getting out of bed the next day.

    Also, remember to work on the things that I mentioned earlier while you swim. A workout is limited in how well it can drive home a lesson, so you have to be sure that you have the personal discipline to drive the lesson home yourself while you swim.

    Good work. Glad to hear that your arms and legs are getting a good workout. Be sure not to run the workout for two consecutive days. No matter how good one's form, overuse of the same body parts in the same motions day after day will lead to overuse injuries. That's why I recommend that you only do it twice or three times a week on non-consecutive days. Work on something else on the days between. Endurance. The glide strokes. IMs. Something.

    --Sean

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    Very Active Member okoban's Avatar
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    Re: How to increase my stroke rate

    Hi Sean (and other friends reading, especially Andy and Lindsay)
    I did the same practice this morning second time. My legs were exhausted and my arms were better.
    I swam in a 50 meter pool (again),
    In the first set, (free spirint) my average was 45 seconds (42 to 47) and 38-42 strokes (and no need to have an extra rest)
    Second set (kick spirint) average 68(63 to 72) seconds, I did the first 5 sets in 75 seconds, last 5 in 80 seconds. I am really upset, but to train kick-set in a 50 meter pool is horrible. I am exhausted after the 4th 50.

    Third set (just arms, no pull buoy), average 50 seconds and 50 strokes; very fast stroke rate for me, I am amazed (I did it in 70 seconds, not in 65 as you suggested; please mercy me, I have a kid !!!
    4th set (3-5-7 strokes per breath), 50 seconds and 45 strokes, and I did this set in 70 seconds.
    Total 2,800 meters of workout took me 72 minutes (excluding 5 minute stretching parts at the beginning and at the end).
    I have 3 questions:
    1.do you recomment me to drink water during this workout (I do it in early morning)
    2.the other workout days, I also use hand paddles; shall I swim relaxed with them or accelerate sometimes (any harm to my shoulder?)
    3.shall I use fins in the other workouts and if yes shall I fore my legs 100% (any harm to my ankles?)
    I also plan to use Andy's approach in some part of my 'other days workouts' as:
    repeat 100s on 1:30 or less. As you swim them break up the lengths in your mind so that the first length is a sprint, 2nd length focus on stretching out the arms and reaching, 3rd you'll push that kick and 4th you'll bring it home stretching out and keeping your head down the last 3 strokes. I think that by breaking it up you get a fresh perspective for each length.
    Thanks for your comments

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    Active Member Larry_55's Avatar
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    Re: How to increase my stroke rate

    What a great post. The detail is much appreciated.

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    Re: How to increase my stroke rate

    1.do you recomment me to drink water during this workout (I do it in early morning)

    Absolutely. When you work out in swimming, as with any other sport, keeping hydrated is critical. If you can, try to drink water only during stretch periods. Always bring a reliable water bottle with you to a pool. Virtually all pools allow water-filled water bottles, but, if you can, perhaps an electrolytic drink (gatorade, powerade, etc) would be even better.

    2.the other workout days, I also use hand paddles; shall I swim relaxed with them or accelerate sometimes (any harm to my shoulder?)


    overuse injuries occur because of repetitive motion. for instance, it's not necessarily that you type too fast or type too slow, it's that you are always typing that causes you to get an overuse injury in your hand (carpal tunnel, for instance.) switch up the strokes a bit on the other days if you can. if you insist on swimming freestyle on every outing, then i would probably recommend that you operate at least at 75% on non-sprint days. however, i can't stress enough that there is definite benefit in practicing all the strokes, even if you are focused on one.

    3.shall I use fins in the other workouts and if yes shall I fore my legs 100% (any harm to my ankles?)


    fins help to better your leg technique, and they give your legs a good workout. they make you go faster when you have them on, but they don't make the workout easier. the muscles in your legs that cover the natural structure of your legs are overloaded by the extra work they have to do to support the prosthetic part of your body (the flippers) that do not have muscle tissue covering them. In flutter kicking, ankles and knees should not be so prone to overuse injuries as perhaps hips. it's the hip joints that are doing all the grinding. however, i hear an awful lot more about shoulder injuries than i do about any other kind of injuries in freestyle swimming. knee injuries occur in breaststrokers, but such injuries can be minimized by practicing (granny's) wedge kick instead of the whip kick or, instead, the W kick advocated on breaststroke.info. dolphin kick in streamline would be a good drill to practice on non-sprint days (since dolphin kick in streamline is a preferred method to start a length of freestyle, a length of butterfly, and (on its back) a length of backstroke). using flippers during such a drill would help you get the rhythm better. be careful of becoming reliant on flippers. they are addictive. i always have my swimmers take off flippers during the workout so that they can (1) keep in the habit of swimming without them and (2) squeeze the last bit of energy out of their legs as they try to cope with swimming without flippers after they burned their legs out swimming with them.

    I also plan to use Andy's approach in some part of my 'other days workouts' as:
    repeat 100s on 1:30 or less. As you swim them break up the lengths in your mind so that the first length is a sprint, 2nd length focus on stretching out the arms and reaching, 3rd you'll push that kick and 4th you'll bring it home stretching out and keeping your head down the last 3 strokes. I think that by breaking it up you get a fresh perspective for each length.


    it is, indeed, hard to keep focused and motivated on long sets. breaking up sets with smaller goals for each length or each 50, or each 100, is a well-respected way of keeping things interesting. it also helps to workout different things witout burning out any one right away.

    --Sean

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    Very Active Member okoban's Avatar
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    Re: How to increase my stroke rate

    Hi Sean,
    I did an 'easy' workout today in SC.
    70 minutes, 2600 meters.
    A couple of hundred meter drills (free)
    Some breaststroke (easy and gliding)
    Kick set 4x50 on 1:15 (w/o board)
    4x100 medley (moderate speed) on 2:30 (1:50 each)
    4x100 free (moderate speed, Andy's focus points) on 2:15 (1:45 each)
    Freestyle with hand paddles (focus on pull)
    Back, breast and free easy and long sets
    I drank water and powerade (1 liter, like an old truck )
    I forgot to use fins
    I need to do the last part of pull faster (my stroke does not accelerate at the end of the pull), I am working on it.
    I will jog tomorrow
    Have a nice weekend
    I really appreciate your efforts, thanks.

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    Re: How to increase my stroke rate

    that definitely sounds like a fairly easy workout.

    two points:

    first, if you can't feel your pull at the end of your stroke, be sure that you are, in fact, finishing your pull before pulling up your elbows. many swimmers will pull up their elbows at 7 or 8 'o' clock. Be sure that your elbows don't come up before your hand points to 9 'o' clock.

    second, be careful with hand paddles. they are good at strengthening hand pulls, but more focus these days is on the hand and forearm as a single unit. be careful not to adapt your stroke to emphasize the hand pulls to the detriment of the hand and forearm synchronous pull.

    Check out the following video (particularly around 3:08)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnSDw373gMc

    Now, Dr. Haljand seems to be advocating the I-Pull to the S-Pull in this video, and that's the way I'd swim it. But, more importantly, note that he has her press with her palm AND elbow (which is the end of the forearm). Also notice that he always keeps the hand and forearm inline. He deliberately worked to ensure that she kept her hand and forearm working as one tool. Hand paddles are good tools, but just be careful that they don't teach you to move your hands and forearms as separate units.

    Just so you don't think this guy is a kook-job (crazy person):
    http://www.swim.ee/biography/index.html

    If you celebrate, have a very merry Christmas.

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    Very Active Member okoban's Avatar
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    Re: How to increase my stroke rate

    Hi Sean, I did my third sprint workout this morning.
    I have one good and one bad news:
    Good news is, that I did the
    just arms and hypoxics sets in 65 seconds (instead of 70)
    (just arms in 50-52sec., hypoxics in 48-50 sec.)
    Bad news is that,
    In the sprint sets I had to have a rest of 30 extra sec. after the fifth. I did it to achieve the 40-44 sec. target that I set (10th one was in 47, all the others were below 45).
    And the kick set: I can manage the first 4-5 50s on time, then I slow down (I did the last 5 in 70-75 sec+ 5 sec interval). I've completed the kick set 30 sec. later than normal time.
    I have 2 questions:
    I did an easy swim 12 hours before this set (I swam easy set on 19:00 to 19:45 and did the sprint set in 7:00 to 8:10). In the night shift I swam approx. 2,000 meters with 80% performance; a lot of free 40s, a few breast and back 40s (there was waterpolo training in the pool, I used the back of the pool).
    First Q: Should I rest at least 24 hours before doing this sprint set?
    Second Q: There is a trade off. When I am getting tired in the middle of a set (lets say in the first sprint set I try to be lower than 45), shall I stop for a while for an extra rest and continue lower than 45 or shall I continue w/o an extra rest and do my best (then, I will swim the last couple of lengths in 45 to 48sec.)
    I am working on my stroke correction and the video you sent really makes sense, thank you.
    Merry Christmas Sean, we celebrate our Holly Bayram nearly at the same time this year, thanks

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    Re: How to increase my stroke rate

    Mutlu Bayramlar! (Thanks (or blame) to Google for that)

    I don't think you need a full 24-hour rest before running one of those sprint workouts. You just need to not do sprint workouts on consecutive days.

    With sets like I have assigned, the only time to rest is the time left over after achieving a distance goal (like a 50 free). If there is no time left over, then you mark the time in your head and immediately continue on, trying to meet the time for the next set. If you find yourself missing time goals on cosecutive departures, then check the time and adjust the time goals as necessary. on the spot. try to only add as much time to the goals as you absolutely need.

    Although you should be working to decrease the time spent on each 50, adjustments don't have to be time decreases. Time increases can be useful when you just can't make the original set goal.

    Sounds like you're doing some good work, though.

    --Sean

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    Very Active Member okoban's Avatar
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    Re: How to increase my stroke rate

    Hi Sean,
    Your Turkish is excellent, I am amazed when I saw 'mutlu bayramlar', thank you!!
    This morning I did the sprint sets for the 4th time.
    Each time I am getting more experienced and your comments really make sense.
    This time, I did not have extra rest during my sets; the only change I did was kick sets: (from 75 to 80 sec). It helped a lot and I completed the sets on time.
    I did the most sprint sets between 40 to 45 sec. (2 or 3 sets 45 to 50).
    Kick sets on 80 sec intervals (first 5 in 65 to 70, last 5 in 70 to75)
    just arms and hypoxics sets in 65 seconds (just arms in 50-52sec., hypoxics in 45-50 sec., but I cheat on 7str/breath parts sometimes).
    During my sets, there were young swimmers training and I told to their coach. He will record my strokes (over and under water) and make comments (next friday). It will be very interesting and I am excited!!!
    If I can manage, I will put the video over here.
    During the stretching (dryland exercises 1-2 by Barbara Hummel in goswim.tv), I realized that there is a 'click' on my right shoulder, but no pain. I hope there will be no problem. During the last 2 weeks, I increased my weekly yardage from 7-8K (low-medium intensity) to 10-11K (low-medium and high intensity).
    My best wishes, Oguz

  18. #18
    Very Active Member
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    Re: How to increase my stroke rate

    My Turkish is non-existent, but my online research skills are pretty good.

    You sound like you are progressing nicely. It would be very interesting to see your strokes on video.

    I just reviewed those exercises, and those are good exercises that do not encourage overrotation or any dangerous joint activity. All i can think of that might be causing the clicking, aside from something preexisting, is that perhaps you are rushing through the stretches instead of taking them slow as you should. Moving through the exercises too quickly can cause you to swing your arms back further than a normal range of motion. that is dangerous.

    That's a nice yardage increase.

    Best regards,

    --Sean

  19. #19
    Very Active Member okoban's Avatar
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    Smile Re: How to increase my stroke rate

    Hi Sean,
    Today I did the sprint set for the 5th time.
    In the first sprint set, I did all of the 50s under 45sec. with one exception (47).
    Kick set in 80second intervals.
    Just arms in 49-52 seconds.
    Last one (hypoxics) in 48 to 50 seconds (2-3 cheats in 7s).
    I think I will not be able to increase my speed without impoving my technics.
    Tomorrow I will run, thursday I will do the set again.
    Here are my questions:
    1. you said 'perhaps you are rushing through the stretches instead of taking them slow as you should'. Do you mean the 1 minute stretches between the sets or the stretching before the exercises. I do the stretching before the exercises properly at least 6-7 minutes. In 1 minute stretches, I try not to take much more time. May I take 2-3 minutes?
    2. you said 'Moving through the exercises too quickly can cause you to swing your arms back further than a normal range of motion. that is dangerous.' Is it related to rests between sets or stroke mechanics (accelerate the stroke through the hips?).
    Thank you

  20. #20
    Very Active Member
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    Re: How to increase my stroke rate

    When I say rushing through the stretches, I don't mean that you don't spent a good portion of time on stretches, just that, per each individual repetition, you may be rushing through that maneuver. For instance, when you have your arms outstretched in front of you and together, do you sling them back or slowly stretch them back inline with your shoulders? If you sling them back, you may be moving your arms beyond proper alignment with your shoulders and actually a bit behind your body. Over many repetitions, such a movement could possibly be creating unnecessary wear on your tendons and/or joints.

    Also, on non-sprint workout days, you may want to, somewhere in the beginning of the workout, race your 200 to see how you are progressing. Racing your 50 would be a good idea on other days too. Just not necessarily on the same practice day.

    --Sean

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