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Thread: How to increase my stroke rate

  1. #41
    Very Active Member okoban's Avatar
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    Re: How to increase my stroke rate

    Sean, I find it interesting that you said breaststroke is as hard as butterfly. It is possible to swim breaststroke as slow as you wish, but in butterfly, you need to have a minimum pace (OK you are the coach, I will add butterfly skill drills in my drill set).
    Thanks to a meeting downtown, I did the sprint set today at 17:45 to 19:00 and it was better than an early morning workout.
    I plan to test my 200 in the weekend and do the skill drills of fly/breast.

  2. #42
    Very Active Member okoban's Avatar
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    Smile Re: How to increase my stroke rate

    Hi Sean (and everybody reading),
    I did all the backstroke drills I know in the weekend workout. I also tested my 100 free in the 50m. pool (1:20). My 50 butterfly is 37 sec (A note to new readers: I know it is slow, but I started swimming when I was 30).
    My plan in the morning is to do 2/3 backstroke, 1/3 free endurance sets. This is the backstroke week, I love it. I will do 200s of each (approx. total of 2.6K). In the main sets I will do 200s back (normal, W fins, W hand paddles, W fins+hand paddles) and rest 20 sec. among the intervals. If I feel great (early in the morning???) I might test my 200 free to beat 3 minutes.
    Sean, it is really a great idea to split the week to endurance, sprint and drill days.
    Best
    Oguz

  3. #43
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    Re: How to increase my stroke rate

    i find that breaking up consecutive practice days into sprint, endurance, and drill days is good psychologically as much as physiologically.

  4. #44
    Very Active Member okoban's Avatar
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    Re: How to increase my stroke rate

    Absolutely coach. Doing sprint sets in most of the workouts was really stressfull. Today in the morning I did a 2.8K of a backstroke dominated endurance sets. I did 200s in 50m pool:
    400 w/u
    normal backstroke 3:35 R:20sec
    with hand paddles: same time, 15% less strokes R:20 sec
    with fins: 3:10 R:30 sec
    with fins+hand paddles 3:10, less strokes R:30sec
    200 free (80%) 3:30
    R:2 min. stretching
    same set as above
    400 c/d
    I think my backstroke technique is a bit better than my freestyle.
    I also did some back drills in w/u and c/d including half-full Powerade bottle on my head (I was still faster than the guy in the next lane )
    I will try my 200 free in the weekend to beat 3min.
    Thursday morning I will do sprint sets if I feel good enough (50% back/free)

  5. #45
    Very Active Member okoban's Avatar
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    Re: How to increase my stroke rate

    I could not beat 3min in 200 free.
    But I broke my record by 2 seconds; new record is 3:01.
    I broke another record in 50 free by 1 second (0:34)
    My stroke rate is fast enough, but (I think) I should work a lot for the last phase of the push. Accelerating the pull through the hips is something very important for increasing the speed.
    I did a lot of drills today (breast, butterfly and back).
    It seems that I will beat 3 minutes within a couple of weeks.
    I will also start counting my strokes again especailly in sprint sets.

  6. #46
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    Re: How to increase my stroke rate

    that's fantastic, oguz. the last parts of pushes or kicks are always so critical and at the same time so forgotten. for instance, a lot of the power in the breaststroke kick comes from the final phase of the kick, but that's exactly where many people start to let up on the force they put into the kick. similarly, a lot of power comes from the last phase of the pull in freestyle, but so many people take that as the time to let up on the force a bit and begin thinking about recovery instead of finishing the pull.

    I've thought about your problem finishing your pulls and think this drill might be most appropriate:

    While standing up, let your shoulders slouch and arms hang loose. Take a mental note of exactly where your index fingers on each hand touch your legs. Then run a few 50 free drills wherein you make sure that -- with every pull -- the index finger of the pulling arm strikes that part of your leg that you previously touched while slouching. After every 50, assess your success, and then run the drill again. Do about 5 50 frees like that. Try to run this entire drill a couple of times in the coming week. See if that helps.*

    --Sean

    * Just remember that it is just a drill to help you become conscious of finishing your pulls, not proper swim technique. In the proper stroke, you would not be striking your thigh with every pull.

  7. #47
    Very Active Member okoban's Avatar
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    Smile Re: How to increase my stroke rate

    Coach, I used to do the drill you mentioned for backstroke (with the thumb), I will do it for free also, thanks for the advice.
    I did the famous sprint set yesterday in SCM pool. It was easier than LCM. I finished all the parts within target time including the kick set in 75sec.
    Tuesday mornings I do the drills, Thursday mornings I do the endurance sets. I like all of them.

  8. #48
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    Re: How to increase my stroke rate

    sounds good. sc is always easier than lc (y or m).

  9. #49
    Very Active Member okoban's Avatar
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    Re: How to increase my stroke rate

    Today I did my workout in the 50LCM pool. It was OK. To give an idea about my psychology, there were appox. 20 young swimmers in the other lanes and I was the only person over 20. One of the youngsters is Caglar Gokbulut which will attend the world swimming championships in March. He is 17 and swims 800 and 1500. It is not so much fun to swim with these guys. I feel like I am driving a truck. But it is surely better to have some people in the pool. I used to swim alone for two weeks when they were in the swim camp down in Marmaris. I'm glad they're back.

  10. #50
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    Re: How to increase my stroke rate

    it certainly isn't fun swimming with others that are way above your level, but you have to take what you're given. and, although it would have been optimal to be swimming with other swimmers only slightly better than you, swimming with someone, regardless of skill, is better than swimming with no one.

    --Sean

  11. #51
    Very Active Member okoban's Avatar
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    Re: How to increase my stroke rate

    I started to apply Kevin Williams's workouts this week. Today I did 16th of February workout. I understood why he posted 'Oh no he didn't' on top of the workout. I did it in 50LCM pool. It was fun, but very challenging.
    I think I will do some of them, they are really well designed and creative.

  12. #52
    Very Active Member okoban's Avatar
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    Re: How to increase my stroke rate

    I did our famous sprint sets today in SCM pool. It was very good. All of the 50 swims were under 44 seconds (first 5 of them in 41), I could finish kick sets within 75 seconds. I did just arms and hypoxics parts in 60 seconds too. I think my strokes are better too. I try to finish all of them properly. I will test my 200 again. I think this time it will be lower than 3 seconds.

  13. #53
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    Re: How to increase my stroke rate

    have you tested your 50 free time recently?

  14. #54
    Very Active Member okoban's Avatar
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    Re: How to increase my stroke rate

    Hi coach,
    I tried 50meters in LCM pool this morning.
    After a short warm-up, I did 34 seconds (blocks)
    After a couple of hundred meters more swimming (hand paddles)
    I did another 34 seconds (blocks)
    I can't go any faster
    I will try 200 this weekend. Logically I should do 37+42+45+45=2:49, but I think I will do 2:55 to 3:00. What do you think?

  15. #55
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    Re: How to increase my stroke rate

    well, if you are doing a 34 on a 50 starting from the blocks, then that would also likely be your first 50 split on a 200 from a block start. from there, i'd guess a 37, 42, 40, maybe. Typically, people gain time on the second and third 50s, and then lose a bit of time that is still more time than the first (or sometimes second) 50 on the last 50. That'd be a total time of 2:33. when people time themselves, a lot of times self-doubt gets involved in the final time. that's why i am thinking that you might drop as far as 5 seconds between the 2nd and the 3rd 50. i realize that your latest record in the 200 is a 3:01, but if you are pulling a 34 in the 50, then there is no reason that -- after enough endurance training -- you wouldn't be able to come in under a 2:46, let alone a 2:49. be sure to have someone time each of your splits for each 50. you really need to find out where you are losing your time -- especially if you come out with a time above 2:46. A 34 on each 50 would bring you to a 2:16. Obviously, fatigue takes its toll in adding time, but 45 seconds is a whole lot of time. Now, when you are first training, the cost of fatigue will be high, but -- after training hard for some time now -- the cost of fatigue should be much lower than 45 seconds on a 200. A 2:46 would place the fatigue cost at 30 seconds -- still very high, but a 1/3 overall drop in fatigue cost. So, in short, I am cheering for you to get a 2:33, but I would accept a 2:46 as very good progress.

    --Sean

  16. #56
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    Re: How to increase my stroke rate

    Oguz, purely out of curiousity, how many breaths did you take in the 34s 50m?

  17. #57
    Very Active Member okoban's Avatar
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    Re: How to increase my stroke rate

    Coach, thanks for your detailed explanations. It is really meaningful and to the point. I will forget about my latest record and focus on kicking hard and complete strokes this weekend.
    Lindsay, I focused on two things during the sprint:completing my strokes properly and kicking hard. I did not count my strokes, but I guess it should be around 40 strokes and 6-7 breaths (I know I should be breathing a bit less).

  18. #58
    Very Active Member okoban's Avatar
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    Re: How to increase my stroke rate

    The greatest coach of all (Sean)
    This weekend I did not feel well, didn't go to pool. I swam today and tried a 100. I did 1:20 again. It is becoming clear that I can not keep my pace high enough . So, I will first try to swim 100 at 1:15 before trying 200. When I achieve this, I will try 200.
    I'm a slow turtle.

  19. #59
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    Re: How to increase my stroke rate

    but if you swim a 1:20 on the first 100, then that means that -- if you are getting a time of 3 min on the 200 -- that your second 100 is 1:40. That's 20 seconds added for fatigue! Ack! 20 seconds is a full quarter of your 100 free time! what is happening on that second 100?

    --Sean

  20. #60
    Very Active Member okoban's Avatar
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    Re: How to increase my stroke rate

    Yeah!!! I finally did it.
    I am under 3 minutes in 200 free (2:58). It means I am 3% better than last year. Thanks coach.
    Coach, regarding your question: You are absolutely right. I am not swimming, but drinking in the last 50. My times in 200 today was: 39/43/46/50.
    I really suffered in the last 50, I was exhausted. My stroke count was something like 38/41/44/50. In the first 100, 3 breaths per stroke, last 100, mostly 2 br per stroke. Do I need more endurance training and weight lifting to be around 2:50? I do very little weights and some push-ups 2-3 times a week.

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