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Thread: Fun, and Fast

  1. #1
    swims4life JMiller's Avatar
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    Fun, and Fast

    The cross-training routine that was previously posted on this thread had a variety of advice. Although quite a few people have mentioned to me that they prefer to swim, and don't really want to lift weights. That's understandable, but attempting to compromise I suggest these 4 critical exercises, 3xweek. This could take as little as 15 minutes, but will have significant impact on your swimming base times.

    Here's why:

    Ankle flexibility is crucial, as this is the anchor on your ship. Even if you don't improve power or strength, having your ankles flexible will reduce the drag and improve body position. So, I recommend a minimum of 6 minutes (3x per week), on the bike with your toes pointed. This is primarily to warm up the ankles as well as training the range of motion.
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    Don't be discouraged if you can't do this next stretch right away. When I started 8 years ago I couldn't get my knees off the ground, and my SDK was ineffective. Just have patience, and after several months you should notice a gradual improvement. Not everyone is gifted with natural mobility in the ankles, but the good news is this can be earned. Try and hold the stretch for 3x20 seconds.
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    Moving up the body line, core stability is critical for maintaining the right trajectory while swimming. Be sure to bring the elbow all the way around the knee, and tighten the core as you go through the motion. Pick a weight that enables you to do 3x12 reps on both sides.
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    This last exercise is great for your core, but I've noticed it is also really good for the upper body, especially the catch phase of the stroke, as well as engaging the lats on the horizontal axis. Again, 3x12 reps, and these four exercises can be made into a short mini-routine that most aspiring swimmers should at least consider.
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    Happy swimming,
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    So I finally have my video on FLOSWIMMING here it is
    100 free SCM - 51.60 which converts to 46.02 SCY
    http://swimming.flocasts.org/videos/play/65295
    Last edited by JMiller; October 8th, 2008 at 06:05 PM.

  2. #2
    Very Active Member Slowswim's Avatar
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    Re: Fun, and Fast

    Do you really mean 8x25 on 3 minutes or a total of 3:00?
    I keep telling my coaches, "I am a sprinter" and "they keep saying you swim short races, but that is not the same thing." - Some Girl

  3. #3
    Tough like a donut
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    Re: Fun, and Fast

    Quote Originally Posted by Slowswim View Post
    Do you really mean 8x25 on 3 minutes or a total of 3:00?
    I would hope that since it's a sprint that the interval would be more like 1:00. But with fins that might drop down to :45, maybe even :35.

    Paul

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    Re: Fun, and Fast

    Hmm, will have to give this one a try.

    Paul

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    Very Active Member nancytris's Avatar
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    Re: Fun, and Fast

    hmmmmm .. on the three minutes seems to be a long cooling down time, not to mention the patience that is needed for the wait

    Am I to also guess that this is but one part of the day's workout. Since this seems a short 100 yarder, should an additional workout be added to this?

    I am DEFINITELY in improving my very slow time to be at least moderately slow.

    Thanks for this,
    Nancy
    Nancy

  6. #6
    Very Active Member FindingMyInnerFish's Avatar
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    Re: Fun, and Fast

    Do you absolutely need fins or can it have any benefit if you don't have fins? I don't own fins, but maybe I should invest in a pair.... Just try to travel light when I go to the pool and use the available pool toys--which include pull buoys and kickboards, but not fins.

    If I did get fins, what kind do you recommend, as I'm a newbie at choosing something like this.

  7. #7
    Very Active Member FindingMyInnerFish's Avatar
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    Re: Fun, and Fast

    Quote Originally Posted by JMiller View Post
    3 minutes rest is absolutely necessary!
    8x25 on 3:00, and yes with FinZ
    The fins give you increased propulsion,
    and that is what trains your body to get
    used to faster-than-race pace body
    positions... (Surfing the water with your
    body) They are only $25...

    This type of training is only for improving
    sprinting speed... so if your event is over
    100, than you may want to consider the
    traditional work-outs. However 8x25 at
    maximum speed, 3xweek, is basically 600
    meters of intense race pace... (Over a few
    months this does have an accumulating effect.
    Try it, and you'll see, this is no simple task, and well
    worth the effort... (Not a waste of time if you are
    a legitimate sprinter) You'll be surprised by the extra
    sprint endurance on the last 25 of a 100 during a race...
    The 7th and 8th 25 is a challenge on this set, and over
    6 months, you'll see what happens to your body...

    **Also, this is an adapted program for masters, as
    recovery, and busy schedules are also a component
    to the reality of maintaining sprint-endurance. However,
    this set is something that I've found to be critical in
    long-term maintenance of sprinting power***

    Jonathan Miller
    5-time 2005 World Masters Gold Medalist
    Thanks for the tips--and from quite an expert too! I'm more distance oriented, but one masters' coach I worked with had everyone do 10x25 w/ 5 seconds rest in between just before the cooldown. I really enjoyed this last set--in between dry heaves, lol! I'd be curious how this would work with such a long recovery.

  8. #8
    Very Active Member cathlaur's Avatar
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    Re: Fun, and Fast

    Findingmyinngerfish.

    Fins and using them is a contraversy with some. We use them with our Masters team. Not all the time. But when we do I really really enjoy it. It is fun and something different and good for your legs.

    Today we had to do 12 x 50 metres ( 2 lengths in our pool) we used fins. On the evens you had to push off and do SDK underwater for as far as you can go ( yes some can do it all the way) and on the way back front crawl. It got harder and harder but it was really fun. I was very tired afterwards and could feel it in my legs,stomach and lungs LOL

    So I guess it is up to you. We all have them and I really like them.

    Katie

  9. #9
    Back is faster than Fly poolraat's Avatar
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    Re: Fun, and Fast

    Quote Originally Posted by JMiller View Post
    8x25 with finZ on 3:00
    3xweek, for six months prior to racing.
    Are these necessary or will other fins work? I only have the blue zoomers. Also just out of curiosity would this set work for fly and back?
    I have entered the snapdragon stage of my life (Part of me has snapped and the rest of me is draggin ).

  10. #10
    sprint diva The Fortress's Avatar
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    Re: Fun, and Fast

    I do 16 x 25 AFAP on a pretty regular basis, 4 of each stroke, with long fins. (In fact, today might be my third time this week.) Sometimes I ditch breaststroke and only do 12 or 8 x 25. I don't believe I do them on the 3:00 though. That's a lot of wall hanging. I do swim an ez 25 after each one and take plenty of rest though.

    I believe the increasing speed theory. So maybe I'll start incorporating some with even more rest.

  11. #11
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    Re: Fun, and Fast

    This set is an example of what some call "sprint assisted training." Another kind is using elastic bands to pull you instead of opposing your swim. Sprint assisted training allows you to swim at speeds you've never swum before. So doing this often enough will cause you to adapt in ways you never will at normal workout paces.

    As for 25s on 3:00.....Natalie Coughlin said one of her favorite sets was best effort 100s on 8:00. Huge amount of rest and maximum effort.

    This backs up the idea that "to swim fast you have to swim fast."
    From the Rolling Stones "Mother's Little Helper" - "What a drag it is getting old....."

  12. #12
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    Re: Fun, and Fast

    Quote Originally Posted by hofffam View Post
    As for 25s on 3:00.....Natalie Coughlin said one of her favorite sets was best effort 100s on 8:00. Huge amount of rest and maximum effort.
    In college we used to do exactly that, 6-8 100s (of your stroke, absolutely all out) on 8:00 from a start and times recorded on a board. Swimming them breast as I had to do was by far the most brutal set I've ever done. Give me a straight-forward 10,000 yd workout any day over that. At least as far as pure pain is concerned. People would be getting sick and laid out on the deck left and right after number 4 or 5.

    Ah, the good old days...

  13. #13
    Farewell Lily smontanaro's Avatar
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    Re: Fun, and Fast

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Ritter View Post
    People would be getting sick and laid out on the deck left and right after number 4 or 5.
    Kinda makes you wonder about Natalie if that was her favorite set... :screwy:

    Skip

  14. #14
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    Re: Fun, and Fast

    Quote Originally Posted by smontanaro View Post
    Kinda makes you wonder about Natalie if that was her favorite set... :screwy:

    Skip
    Yeah, I think you do need to be kinda screwy to be that fast of a swimmer anyway. Besides perhaps if you swim 4 or 5 hours a day or however much she does the set is less, I don't know, devastating.

  15. #15
    Very Active Member new's Avatar
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    Re: Dolphin kick

    "sit on your ankles and try and lift your knees
    off the ground, as high as possible. Hold the stretch
    for 3x20 seconds"

    That's impossible!


    I try 8x50 dolphin kick as fast as I can (to improve kick) is actually helping my dolphin kick, still very slow,though.

    while racing the 100 or 200 free, the dolphin kick does not help me at all, if i kick too many ,my times would get worse..

  16. #16
    Very Active Member funkyfish's Avatar
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    Re: Fun, and Fast

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Ritter View Post
    In college we used to do exactly that, 6-8 100s (of your stroke, absolutely all out) on 8:00 from a start and times recorded on a board. Swimming them breast as I had to do was by far the most brutal set I've ever done. Give me a straight-forward 10,000 yd workout any day over that. At least as far as pure pain is concerned. People would be getting sick and laid out on the deck left and right after number 4 or 5.

    Ah, the good old days...
    Swimming at max effort does require a great deal of rest. If you don't get enough between efforts, you start backing off and get a bit sloppy. I think when doing that type of work you should feel as fresh as possible as you leave the wall. I did a similar set today, I was trying 20 x 50s on a 2:00 interval. I have to admit that I had a few where I was backing off.

    I also like sets like this as it helps prepare you mentally for racing. I believe I'll try the 25s on 3:00 next time. Thanks.

  17. #17
    Back is faster than Fly poolraat's Avatar
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    Re: Work-outs

    Jonathan,
    What type of training preceded this cycle, how many times did you repeat the cycle and did you follow it with a taper before your meet?

    Quote Originally Posted by JMiller View Post
    Sprint training

    ......2 week spring training cycle.....
    So that's it!! Repeat cycle, and record all times,
    you should measure the improvement.

    Good luck and Happy Swimming.
    Last edited by poolraat; December 12th, 2007 at 01:06 PM.
    I have entered the snapdragon stage of my life (Part of me has snapped and the rest of me is draggin ).

  18. #18
    Back is faster than Fly poolraat's Avatar
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    Re: Fun, and Fast

    Didn't doing the same thing over and over get a bit tedious?
    I have entered the snapdragon stage of my life (Part of me has snapped and the rest of me is draggin ).

  19. #19
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    Re: Fun, and Fast

    [qu=JMiller;111684]No, Zoomers will not make the cut for this set.
    The whole point is to create maximum propulsion, so
    the bigger fins are critical. It is the increased speed
    that trains your body to cut the resistance effectively,
    and this enhances your streamline under the most
    pressure possible from the water. Think about it....

    The water pressure acts like a rubber
    band, (the faster you go the more pressure
    is created) and this set trains your body to stretch
    that rubber band further, and teaches you how to
    manipulate the pressure without disrupting your
    streamline. Viola, increased speed after a few
    month
    IF you have strong shoulders I recommend an extra
    2 with fins and paddles at the end... and yes, fly
    and backstroke work, try it for six months...[/quote



    I purchased Hydra-Fins about a year ago. They sound perfect for this kinmd of set. They are channeled on the side, very propulsive and not as easy as it sounds to maintain a hard kick with. They are in the back of a recent US Swimmer mag. Around $50.00

  20. #20
    Participating Member Maui Man's Avatar
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    Re: Fun, and Fast

    This ready works and I do this only one a week, on Wednesdays.

    If you feel a three minute sendoff is too much time between swims, you're not a sprinter. After 4x25's all-out intensity, I'm thinking 3:00 is not enough rest.

    I've done similiar head-high sets of 25's on 3:00 and love 'em.

    Aloha

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