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Thread: ILMSA State Championship April18-20

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    ILMSA State Championship April18-20

    ILMSA State Championship Bid was awarded to Kishwaukee YMCA-DeKalb Big Dogs located in DeKalb, IL

    1000 Free will be offered on Friday only starting at 1PM in 3 separate sessons
    Session 1: 1PM start
    Session 2: no earlier than 4 PM
    Session 3: no earlier than 6 PM

    Ted Powers, who is a representative organization president, gave an impressive power point presentation.

    The vote was decided by the membership of ILMSA. The officers and BOD of ILMSA do not carry a separate vote.

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    Re: ILMSA State Championship April18-20

    Democracy is good and apparently it has spoken. How anyone would have a major event in a location far from conveinence eludes me personally. The last two championships at UIC set all time attendance records by quite a large margin. That says something about what individual ILMSA swimmers want.
    The meet at Barrington had abysmally low attendance. At Northwestern the numbers were predictable and greater than Barrington but nothing like the recent UIC held meets. Attendance makes or breaks the meet. It looks like the Big Dogs do not have the kind of track record with meets that bodes success. No offense, but the majority of ILMSA swimmers live witin a 60 mile radius of Chicago not DeKalb. Their meet results from last year speak to that, were those on the powerpoint. I guess Cairo, IL didn't get the bid in on time. It looks like the championship of Southern ILMSA to me.

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    Re: ILMSA State Championship April18-20

    Quote Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
    Democracy is good and apparently it has spoken. How anyone would have a major event in a location far from conveinence eludes me personally. The last two championships at UIC set all time attendance records by quite a large margin. That says something about what individual ILMSA swimmers want.
    The meet at Barrington had abysmally low attendance. At Northwestern the numbers were predictable and greater than Barrington but nothing like the recent UIC held meets. Attendance makes or breaks the meet. It looks like the Big Dogs do not have the kind of track record with meets that bodes success. No offense, but the majority of ILMSA swimmers live witin a 60 mile radius of Chicago not DeKalb. Their meet results from last year speak to that, were those on the powerpoint. I guess Cairo, IL didn't get the bid in on time. It looks like the championship of Southern ILMSA to me.
    Well said, Kirk. As a person who was on the State meet host committee for the past few years, I definitely agree that attendance makes or breaks a meet. Anecdotally, our attendance will be significantly impacted: Rather than each of us swimming two days, it is more likely that we'll each be able to swim on one day. And while I'd rather be competing against Illinoisians and paying entry fees that support ILMSA, I'm sure we'll be looking into whether or not Carthage is going to host the WI state meet. Kenosha is a more reasonable commute for us than DeKalb, and there won't be hotel costs involved. Like you, I'm disappointed about DeKalb as the pick, but as you noted, this is what the eligible ILMSA voters supported. Hopefully, the Big Dogs will stage a convincing meet.

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    Very Active Member smontanaro's Avatar
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    Re: ILMSA State Championship April18-20

    We're talking about the same DeKalb here? The one a little west of St. Charles? Google tells me its a bit over 90 minutes from Evanston where I live. I agree it's not as close as UIC, but it's not like they picked Carbondale or Macomb. You people are obviously not hockey or soccer parents.

    Skip Montanaro

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    Re: ILMSA State Championship April18-20

    Skip I disagree,

    UIC is at most a 60 minute drive for MOST teams of size not 90 minutes. 90 minutes is a significant commute to be at a meet by 7am.

    This implies a hotel stay for some that are 90 minutes away.

    In addition ,the proposal indicated there would be 2 YES 2 lanes for warm up and down. Not the 5-6 available at UIC.

    This decision is contaminated by an unfortunate lack of attendance of Chicago metro teams that could NOT imagine why ANYONE would change the recent, extremely well run and convenient location of this meet. UIC is a very accessible and equally reasonable location for all but the most remote teams.

    The current voting system is much like th US Senate every state gets a vote however it should be more congressional in nature where X number of IMSA members get X number of votes.

    My statements are not prejudicial as this vote turned out. I am for what is right and best for all. Yes I am an Evanston swimmer and we win state often only, by sacrificing our individual aspirations for THE TEAM that is why we win.
    We do not try to manipulate the system to our advantage. I feel that this choice IS a manipulation to smack down a team that has been the greatest promoter and preserver of masters swimming in Illinois for the past 25+ years.
    I have been a Masters swimmer in Illinois for 25 years and I am proud to have been on 23 State championship teams but that is not the point. Masters swimming is great, we have a great state, and if we are going to degrade to manipulation in order to alter results then I am OUT and I will use all of my influence to inspire as many swimmers as possible to voice their opinions on this faux voting result.
    If you win a state championship without the defending state champion and 23 times winner present what did you achieve? Like Barrington you snuck by, congratulations, you are the best team in Illinois, No you snuck by the best team in Illinois. Nice! What an accomplishment. I know I am not making friends with this writing but anyone who knows me will not be offended by at all, because I love swimming and the swimmers in Illinois and winning is just gravy.
    Kirk Bennewitz

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    Very Active Member smontanaro's Avatar
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    Re: ILMSA State Championship April18-20

    I apologize if what I wrote was unclear. Google tells me it's a bit over 90 minutes from Evanston to DeKalb. For me, UIC is about a 30 minute ride on the Metra followed by a 15 minute walk.

    I'm not disagreeing that DeKalb is going to be farther than UIC for many (most?) people. I'm just suggesting it's not horrendously far either.

    Skip

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    Re: ILMSA State Championship April18-20

    I understand what you are saying. I am saying WHY?? Why go for the FAR AWAY unknown. When the meet was performing at it's all time best while located at UIC. It does not make sense to me.
    KIRK

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    Very Active Member smontanaro's Avatar
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    Re: ILMSA State Championship April18-20

    I don't know what all the selection criteria were. I was not at the meeting. (I'm not a team rep.) Based on your note it sounds like each team could send a representative who could vote for whatever location they felt was best. I trust the agenda was known in advance, so the fact that the host of the state meet was going to be selected at the meeting should not have been a surprise to anyone. Just like any other quasi-democracy, if it's important to you, vote. If it's not important enough to attend, then accept the outcome and move on.

    I'm not suggesting that Evanston didn't send a representative to the meeting. As a very active team I imagine they were represented at the meeting. Your suggestion seems to be though that because enough other Chicago metro teams didn't attend the meeting the suburban teams who did attend somehow stacked the outcome. I don't see it quite that way. You shouldn't be griping about the teams which sent representatives who voted for DeKalb. You should be griping about the teams which were missing, especially those who you believe would have voted to hold the state meet at UIC. Does ILMSA support some sort of proxy voting? If so, could those teams not in attendance have designated a proxy from another team to vote on their behalf? (If not, maybe that would be a useful change to the by-laws in the future.)

    As for the state meet being "the championship of Southern ILMSA", while DeKalb is well west of Chicago, it is actually slightly north of the center of Chicago, at least in the USGS data I have:

    dekalb:il:41.929444:-88.750278
    chicago:il:41.850000:-87.650000


    Skip

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    Re: ILMSA State Championship April18-20

    Skip
    Unlike YOUR team we sent our reps AND understood the possible outcomes. WE are not the problem. you are. People who talk a lot but do not try to mold their world. Your geographical knowledge is cute but when was the last time you sponsored or volunteered at a meet? I have been helping people like you have things to do for decades and you fill out your entries send your checks and think it's magic. You have No right to criticize anyone.

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    Re: ILMSA State Championship April18-20

    Marcia Cleveland was there.

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    Re: ILMSA State Championship April18-20

    This has been my reaction to the fear of travel to DeKalb.

    I will be surprised if there are less than 400 participants and would not be surprised if thereare more than 500. I was the meet director for the Barrington State Meet and we had over 400 individual participants. The meet used to be held in Springfield. If Chicago were in the center of Illinois, I'd say have it there every year. This, to me, is a great opportunity for a small club to share its hospitality and an chance for them to bring some needed revenue in to their program. The potential income from a meet this size can support an entire community’s aquatics programs for the year. In my opinion the state meet should travel every year with the primary concern being safety at the event. No one program should receive the bulk of the income from Illinois Masters swimmers. Every team had a shot at it, the folks in DeKalb gave a great presentation and I am looking forward to their meet. The state meet will be great, see you there.

    I would also like to add that the vicious and bullying remarks made by KIRK on this forum are inappropriate. Your attitude and tone speak volumes. The way people are treated at an event (big or small) or on this forum is as important if not more important for the success of ILMSA than the location of a meet. Imagine a new or potential masters swimmer coming on to view this forum, what would that person think? Imagine a representative from USMS logging on to see the latest on ILMSA to find your rant, its embarrasing. Share what you think, thats enough, your point has been made.

    Meets are difficult to run for everyone involved with putting them on. I applaud any group that takes up the challenge. The effort is great, the rewards are minimal and the encouragement is sparse. I still encourage more groups to try. It is dfficult to lure people away from the city, that is correct, all I ask is that you withhold judgement until you have attended the meet for yourself (and bring a few friends with you). At that point ask your team representative to make the call that suits your group best. By the way these ILMSA meetings are not closed events. If you want to see how decisions are made please attend a meeting. The DeKalb presentation was the best I have seen, they made a great pitch. Yes, your team has the ability to send a proxy if your regular representative can not make it. Step up and step out of Chicago there is a big world out there.
    BAM!

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    Re: ILMSA State Championship April18-20

    Quote Originally Posted by Chad Manbeck View Post
    Step up and step out of Chicago there is a big world out there.

    I agree. Coming from CENTRAL Illinois originally, I know there are a LOT of people that do not make it to the state meet each year because it is such a far drive to get up near Chicago, meaning for a lot of them it's 3 - 4+ hours. I am fortunate enough to have moved up here and drive as little as an hour to get to a meet. I will have no problem driving to DeKalb for the state meet this year. For those complaining that it will take LONGER for them to get to the state meet, that's selfish. It's a STATE meet, not a Chicago area master's meet.

    Yes, it's a new venue for state. Yes, it may take you longer to get there. But in my honest opinion, be thankful it's this close. Some of you have no idea how lucky you are that it's still basically in your backyard. I am positive that it will still be a well-run, well-attended meet filled with great friends and friendly competition. That's what I love about ILMSA. What I'm trying to get at - changes happen and we need to learn to adapt accordingly.

    Congrats to the Big Dogs. I look forward to swimming at your pool!

    I'm off my soapbox for the rest of the year. Thanks.
    Last edited by stussy96; October 15th, 2007 at 05:04 PM.

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    Re: ILMSA State Championship April18-20

    Piggish snobs are so hard to understand.

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    Re: ILMSA State Championship April18-20

    Folks, I'd like to provide a little explanation right now for the folks who haven't seemed to understand the process, or who think there's something unfair about it.

    The State Meet host is chosen by a democratic vote of the membership. The ILMSA Executive Committee as a body does not have voting power, but may carry the votes of their clubs/teams if they hold proxies or are duly appointed team/club representatives. For those who are lamenting the fact that the membership's representatives (and not only every club, but every team under the Team Illinois Masters umbrella carries at least one vote) voted to have the meet in DeKalb, I suggest you gather some real hard facts about the winning host, the facility, and the area before making judgments or casting aspersions. KIRK is correct in that the Big Dog Masters meet in previous years has been a small meet. I have, however, observed DCST personally in how they run a large meet. In fact, the meet I watched had over 700 age-group swimmers, as well as their parents, in that venue... and the meet was run like an orchestra. It was well officiated, ran within the timeline, and had ample space for swimming down when it was needed (the YMCA is flexible in the amount of pool space it will provide, depending on the needs of the meet and its participants).

    I have every confidence that not only will DCST run a superior State Meet this year, but that those who look outside the city limits to make the trip will be pleasantly surprised at what they find by traveling to a meet once in a while.

    For those of you who think that this process had anything to do with any one team or geographic location, I can assure you this was not the case. The selection process is both fair and transparent, and the Executive Committee of ILMSA prides itself on that. The only thing secret about the entire process is the ballot itself. The member representatives voted for what they saw as the best meet host for this year. I encourage those of you who think the negative comments made above have any merit to attend the Big Dog Masters meet first to see what the fuss is about.... then you can observe first-hand what prompted the majority of voters to choose DCST as this year's state meet host.

    Chris Colburn
    Co-Head Coach
    Academy Bullets Masters
    ILMSA Vice-Chair/Webmaster

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    Re: ILMSA State Championship April18-20

    Quote Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
    I understand what you are saying. I am saying WHY?? Why go for the FAR AWAY unknown. When the meet was performing at it's all time best while located at UIC. It does not make sense to me.
    KIRK
    Your comments are the whiniest I have read in some time. Masters swimmers have no god given right to a short local commute to a swim meet. You're fortunate to have had so many convenient local meets. I was just considering flying from DC to a Chicago meet. Really, get out and see the world and don't whine that you can't dictate locale every single year. I know traveling is a hassle, but once in a blue moon it won't kill you. This is not the "far away unknown" -- speaking as a former Chicago resident.

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    Re: ILMSA State Championship April18-20

    Coach Chris is right the vote was correct and fair and DeKalb won fairlly according to the current rules. As pointed out the ballot is not disclosed nor is the abstentsia vote ( those who have a vote and did not vote or send proxy). I question whether 5 registered memebers should have the same voting power as 100 registered members. It seems like one vote to 20 votes. What each registered swimmer would like should be represented equally. The current system does not do that and thus is not fair. I am being framed as a negative because I am the Civil Rights advocate not the rubber stamp advocate.


    You are right I am nothing but a vicious, pigheaded snob bully. I have a T-Shirt that says that. That is a very nice read on all that has been stated by me. I am vehemently concerned that is all.
    You win you are all great people, perfect in every way. I have been actively supporting and involved in sponsoring Illinois masters swimming and it's events for 25 years. I may have been excessively emotional by a lot of talk from people that have been along for the ride.

    You have mistaken snobbishness for involvement and not just passive participation. Evanston and BR Ryall and Chicago masters and Chicago Smelts and Buehler and NASA and St Charles and Richport and Rockford and others supported and furthered masters swimming in Illinois to the point it is now and you all have it taken for granted. I agree that a small program can get a growth windfall from state sponsorship so give them your money. We don't need the money. This is simply not the best location . I don't believe this location is going to come anywhere near the record attendance numbers posted at UIC.
    Now you have put he burden on yourselves to prove out this meet location. Good luck. I hope that Elgin wins go Bluewaves you deserve it.
    Have fun

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    Re: ILMSA State Championship April18-20

    Who else bid on the meet? If they were the only bid, beggers can't be choosers. If there were other bids (did NWU bid??), obviously the winner had the best proposal.

    If overnight travel is that much of a concern, charter a bus/coach. They'll pick you all up at 515am at a specified location, be to where you need to be probably before 7am (w/ lack of traffic), and you won't have to worry about driving. I bet even with paying for the driver's 1 night in a hotel, the rental won't be much more than ~$20 per person.

    I for one am all about spreading the wealth. Over here in the Colonies, we consistently have only one site bidding for SCY zones. It is pretty convenient for all, especially for me, since it's a 20 minute drive from my house. But they're no lock if someone else wants to step up to the plate like BDM/Dekalb did for Illinois.

    Thank you to BDM/ DeKalb for bidding. I am going to see what I can do about supporting your meet from o'er here in DC. Any extra chance to watch Nadine swim - she has an amazing stroke!
    Why do we always run out of rum?

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    Very Active Member aquaFeisty's Avatar
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    Re: ILMSA State Championship April18-20

    Quote Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
    Coach Chris is right the vote was correct and fair and DeKalb won fairlly according to the current rules. As pointed out the ballot is not disclosed nor is the abstentsia vote ( those who have a vote and did not vote or send proxy). I question whether 5 registered memebers should have the same voting power as 100 registered members. It seems like one vote to 20 votes. What each registered swimmer would like should be represented equally. The current system does not do that and thus is not fair. I am being framed as a negative because I am the Civil Rights advocate not the rubber stamp advocate.

    Each team does not have the same voting power. Read the bylaws. You can find the PDF file at:
    http://www.ilmsa.com/about/bylaws

    On page 3, you will see that clubs are given either 1, 2, or 3 votes based on membership numbers. Your team, Evanston Masters, gets the maximum 3 votes at ILMSA meetings. If you feel that this system is not fair, then I suggest you work through the ILMSA board and see how you can look into changing it.

    You practice at Evanston High School, right? That is a facility with blocks, a separate warmdown area, and adequate seating to host a state meet. You could always bid for the meet, too.

    I think we (ILMSA) are dang lucky we actually had 2 locations to choose from for the State meet. I can't imagine how much work goes into hosting a State meet and am thankful DeKalb stepped up. DeKalb is a further trip for me than UIC but I am looking forward to it. I attended their January meet last year and thought it was a great facility and a well-run meet. It will be very nice to have a State meet at a location that actually has a women's locker room adjacent to the pool rather than changing in a bathroom stall.

    If the meet goes poorly or is not well attended, well then, someone else can step up and put together a presentation for the bid for next year's States. It's odd that some of the teams you called out in your email above as having their contributions 'being taken for granted' are actually CLOSER to DeKalb than to UIC. Rockford, for example, is 40 miles from DeKalb and 89 from UIC. St. Charles is 25 miles from DeKalb and 41 from UIC. Yes, downtown Chicago and Evanston are further from DeKalb then UIC. But it's the IL State Meet, not the Chicago City Meet.

    And for those people who say they will attend Wisconsin States rather than IL States, I say go for it. I went to both meets 2 years ago and would highly recommend the Wisconsin meet (especially if it is held at Carthage again - a very nice facility.)

    Carrie

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    sprint diva The Fortress's Avatar
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    Re: ILMSA State Championship April18-20

    I wish we even had a State meet!! I'd definitely get in the car and drive for that. You're lucky to have one and in a great facility!

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    Re: ILMSA State Championship April18-20

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fortress View Post
    I wish we even had a State meet!! I'd definitely get in the car and drive for that. You're lucky to have one and in a great facility!
    Maybe you can attend our state meet, then.

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