Discussion Forums

WaterRat · September 10th, 2003, 07:50 PM

In another discussion, it sounds like there is a lot of interest in having an additional SCM national championship. However, one of the arguments was the lack of attendance at LCM in Rutgers. I personally did not attend the Rutgers meet because it was spread out to be a five day meet. The five days makes it more expensive because of the additional hotel days and food expenses. It also impacts one’s vacation schedules and days available to use in a year for those working in corporate America.

Which got me to thinking, has redoing the national meets by age groups versus event order ever been discussed? What I mean is that specific days would be dedicated to certain age groups and they would swim all of their events spread out over only a one or two day timeframe. They could be split up by age groups rather than age ranges. This would allow one to swim on the same day as the young whipper snappers as well as the old guns. A day in the middle could be dedicated to relays only. This would allow team member in different age groups who still want to swim together the ability to while also only adding one to two additional travel days.

I for one would be much more willing to spend the time and money for a one or two day meet. One could fly in the night before, swim their events in a day and then be able to vacation the other time without worrying about warm-ups and swim times or one could just fly back the morning following their event day and save some money and vacation days in the process. This would also ease the daily congestion at the meet site because only a third or a half of the group would be at the facility each day for warm-ups and events.

Perhaps it’s too late since the national convention is already in progress but perhaps this could be discussed during the committee meeting.

Any one else have thoughts on this idea or has it already been pursued and voted down in the past?

Denise Brown · September 10th, 2003, 09:08 PM

If I am reading your suggestion correctly, you are suggesting (for example), that all the events for the women's 40-44 year age group be swum in one or 2 days. As one who swims the longer events - 1500/800, 400 free, 400 IM, 200IM, 2000 fly, 200 free, to do all of these in one or 2 days would be very difficult. At a National meet, one would like to see the positive results (very fast swimming) of all the hard work done during the season.
I, would not like all my events at Nationals to be on one or 2 days. Actually, I enjoyed the 5 day meet at Rutgers since I was able to compete in both the 1500 and the 800 - for once didn't have to choose one!! It was a bonus for me. Thank you Rutgers!!

**mattson** · September 11th, 2003, 01:05 PM

I hear what you are saying about the expense. But part of the joy of nationals is the social aspect, so losing the opportunity to mix with half of the swimmers would be a big minus.

Besides, if you split the swimmers into two groups by age, the multi-generational swimmer families will inconvenienced. If you split by gender, that would take all of the fun out of life.

WaterRat · September 11th, 2003, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Denise Brown
If I am reading your suggestion correctly, you are suggesting (for example), that all the events for the women's 40-44 year age group be swum in one or 2 days. As one who swims the longer events - 1500/800, 400 free, 400 IM, 200IM, 2000 fly, 200 free, to do all of these in one or 2 days would be very difficult. At a National meet, one would like to see the positive results (very fast swimming) of all the hard work done during the season.
I, would not like all my events at Nationals to be on one or 2 days. Actually, I enjoyed the 5 day meet at Rutgers since I was able to compete in both the 1500 and the 800 - for once didn't have to choose one!! It was a bonus for me. Thank you Rutgers!!

Denise,

I can see how this setup would interfere with your distance events, especially the 2000 fly

. However, I do think you are the exception and not the norm. I wouldn’t think that most folks would have an issue of swimming 5-6 events over a two day period. The two day format is used for several of the zone championship meets where some folks swim up to 5 events per day. The 800/1500 could be part of the relay day for all age groups. Thereby, allowing the meet to be 3 days for the distance folks.

WaterRat · September 11th, 2003, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mattson
I hear what you are saying about the expense. But part of the joy of nationals is the social aspect, so losing the opportunity to mix with half of the swimmers would be a big minus.

Besides, if you split the swimmers into two groups by age, the multi-generational swimmer families will inconvenienced. If you split by gender, that would take all of the fun out of life.

I don't see how multi-generational families would be any more inconvenienced than they already are? They would still need to be there for the entire meet in the current format. I agree, I would never think of splitting by gender. No one is saying that you can't stay for the whole meet. It just would be much more convenient for me and perhaps others if the meet could be done over 1-2 days.

**tjburk** · September 11th, 2003, 04:47 PM

If the five day schedule doesn't fit into your schedule, I would suggest picking a few events and only swimming a few days. I personally liked the way this meet was spread out, gave everyone plenty of time to recuperate between swims.

Phil Arcuni · September 11th, 2003, 05:38 PM

I've done the LMSC championships where I have swum 11 events in two days. I find them extremely exhausting, even though I rarely swim anything more than 200 meters. I don't think I could perform at my best in such a scenario.

GoRedFoxes · September 12th, 2003, 11:46 AM

You got it right TJBURK. Only swim the days you can afford.

In all honesty, I would prefer a 5 day SCY national meet instead of the current 4 day. And, as long as it was in a destination I would like to visit, I would make it a mini vacation. I can see the complaints about Jersey, who wants to go to Jersey? (Sorry my well meaning Neighbors).

I mean, you only need 3 vacation days minimum if you were going to swim the distance events on Wednesday and leave on Sunday. Otherwise, you could fly in wednesday night if you were hard pressed for vacation days. That would cost you only 2 days. Food expense? Not to sound insensitive, but poooleeze. If we were college kids without stipens, I could see the point. But, we have all year to put $10 a week away, to save $520 for nationals. For me, that's my beer money for nationals.

The 5 day meet would allow much more time for us to get away from the pool deck during the daylight hours to, play some golf, go shopping, see the sights, etc. I'd rather use up 4 vacation days (includes monday, cause I'm not flying out Sunday after the meet, it's the only night to party without affecting your swim) to be able to enjoy my stay, than use 2 or 3 and spend all my time on the pool deck.

BTW, corporateers, by the time we are in our 30s, don't most of us have at least 15 days vacation? I've got 5 more comming in 2 years.

Joe Bubel

laineybug · September 12th, 2003, 01:04 PM

I have five weeks vacation, but I can only take it at a certain time of they year, which isn't during nationals... therefore I would have to use all of my 'personal leave' and maybe some of my sick leave if
I felt really bad,

to attend Nationals. Not everyone has a flexable vacation schedule.

GoRedFoxes · September 12th, 2003, 01:49 PM

Point taken Laineybug. And I forgot about teachers (such as by brother). He has to take personal or sick time to attend Nats, and he's already said to me, if they were a day longer, he'd have problems. But I'm sure he would still attend, cut off a day or something.

Joe Bubel

I wish we were in college again, where these things didn't matter, and nationals were a week long.

September 10th, 2003, 07:50 PM	#1
WaterRat Active Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 32	Attendance at Nationals In another discussion, it sounds like there is a lot of interest in having an additional SCM national championship. However, one of the arguments was the lack of attendance at LCM in Rutgers. I personally did not attend the Rutgers meet because it was spread out to be a five day meet. The five days makes it more expensive because of the additional hotel days and food expenses. It also impacts one’s vacation schedules and days available to use in a year for those working in corporate America. Which got me to thinking, has redoing the national meets by age groups versus event order ever been discussed? What I mean is that specific days would be dedicated to certain age groups and they would swim all of their events spread out over only a one or two day timeframe. They could be split up by age groups rather than age ranges. This would allow one to swim on the same day as the young whipper snappers as well as the old guns. A day in the middle could be dedicated to relays only. This would allow team member in different age groups who still want to swim together the ability to while also only adding one to two additional travel days. I for one would be much more willing to spend the time and money for a one or two day meet. One could fly in the night before, swim their events in a day and then be able to vacation the other time without worrying about warm-ups and swim times or one could just fly back the morning following their event day and save some money and vacation days in the process. This would also ease the daily congestion at the meet site because only a third or a half of the group would be at the facility each day for warm-ups and events. Perhaps it’s too late since the national convention is already in progress but perhaps this could be discussed during the committee meeting. Any one else have thoughts on this idea or has it already been pursued and voted down in the past?

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September 10th, 2003, 09:08 PM	#2
Denise Brown Participating Member Denise Brown Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Napoleon, OH Posts: 11	If I am reading your suggestion correctly, you are suggesting (for example), that all the events for the women's 40-44 year age group be swum in one or 2 days. As one who swims the longer events - 1500/800, 400 free, 400 IM, 200IM, 2000 fly, 200 free, to do all of these in one or 2 days would be very difficult. At a National meet, one would like to see the positive results (very fast swimming) of all the hard work done during the season. I, would not like all my events at Nationals to be on one or 2 days. Actually, I enjoyed the 5 day meet at Rutgers since I was able to compete in both the 1500 and the 800 - for once didn't have to choose one!! It was a bonus for me. Thank you Rutgers!!

September 11th, 2003, 01:05 PM	#3
mattson Bigger than a breadbox Mark Mattson Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Naperville, IL Posts: 1,067	I hear what you are saying about the expense. But part of the joy of nationals is the social aspect, so losing the opportunity to mix with half of the swimmers would be a big minus. Besides, if you split the swimmers into two groups by age, the multi-generational swimmer families will inconvenienced. If you split by gender, that would take all of the fun out of life.

September 11th, 2003, 04:47 PM	#6
tjburk Very Active Member Tracy Burkholder Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Warner Robins, GA Posts: 1,434 Blog Entries: 52	If the five day schedule doesn't fit into your schedule, I would suggest picking a few events and only swimming a few days. I personally liked the way this meet was spread out, gave everyone plenty of time to recuperate between swims.

September 11th, 2003, 05:38 PM	#7
Phil Arcuni Very Active Member Philip Arcuni Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Menlo Park Posts: 328	I've done the LMSC championships where I have swum 11 events in two days. I find them extremely exhausting, even though I rarely swim anything more than 200 meters. I don't think I could perform at my best in such a scenario.

September 12th, 2003, 11:46 AM	#8
GoRedFoxes Active Member Joe Bubel Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Kingston, NY Posts: 94	You got it right TJBURK. Only swim the days you can afford. In all honesty, I would prefer a 5 day SCY national meet instead of the current 4 day. And, as long as it was in a destination I would like to visit, I would make it a mini vacation. I can see the complaints about Jersey, who wants to go to Jersey? (Sorry my well meaning Neighbors). I mean, you only need 3 vacation days minimum if you were going to swim the distance events on Wednesday and leave on Sunday. Otherwise, you could fly in wednesday night if you were hard pressed for vacation days. That would cost you only 2 days. Food expense? Not to sound insensitive, but poooleeze. If we were college kids without stipens, I could see the point. But, we have all year to put $10 a week away, to save $520 for nationals. For me, that's my beer money for nationals. The 5 day meet would allow much more time for us to get away from the pool deck during the daylight hours to, play some golf, go shopping, see the sights, etc. I'd rather use up 4 vacation days (includes monday, cause I'm not flying out Sunday after the meet, it's the only night to party without affecting your swim) to be able to enjoy my stay, than use 2 or 3 and spend all my time on the pool deck. BTW, corporateers, by the time we are in our 30s, don't most of us have at least 15 days vacation? I've got 5 more comming in 2 years. Joe Bubel

September 12th, 2003, 01:04 PM	#9
laineybug Very Active Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 826	I have five weeks vacation, but I can only take it at a certain time of they year, which isn't during nationals... therefore I would have to use all of my 'personal leave' and maybe some of my sick leave if I felt really bad, to attend Nationals. Not everyone has a flexable vacation schedule.

September 12th, 2003, 01:49 PM	#10
GoRedFoxes Active Member Joe Bubel Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Kingston, NY Posts: 94	Point taken Laineybug. And I forgot about teachers (such as by brother). He has to take personal or sick time to attend Nats, and he's already said to me, if they were a day longer, he'd have problems. But I'm sure he would still attend, cut off a day or something. Joe Bubel I wish we were in college again, where these things didn't matter, and nationals were a week long.