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mdhammer · July 29th, 2002, 09:48 AM

Laura et al,

I have a 4:40 PM flight back to NY on Sunday and am swimming in the women's 100 free ... any ideas if I am going to make it or should I try to change my flight now?

- Maria Drueckhammer

Matt S · July 29th, 2002, 06:08 PM

Maria,

Regardless of whether you will "make it" or not, I would strongly recommend you get that later flight if the 100 free is at all important to you. I have several reasons:
1) Why add the stress right before your last event? If you are thinking about your flight (traffic to the airport, security, la la, la la la la...) instead of your event, do you actually think you will swim well?
2) People who are under this kind of stress have a tendency to lash-out at others who they perceive are to blame for the circumstances they created themselves. "Why did that darn 85 yr old take so darn long to finish the 400?! Why did that darn meet director let the starters take so darn long between heats?! Why is the pool so darn far away from the freeway?!" Etc., etc. etc. I don't know if you are one of those people, but regardless, give yourself the luxury of being able to be kind.
3) Speaking for myself, I want to savor every minute of my Nationals experience when I make the trip. I want to be able to chit-chat with my buddies, old and new, after the last event, get my splits, pick up any awards I luck into, maybe even have a fun Sunday evening with others who are not leaving until Monday. Last year three of us had dinner at the top of the Space Needle on Sunday eve. The last thing I want is to have cut everything short to go charging off to the airport.

If you can stay until Monday morning, that is the "A" answer in my book. If not, at least take a mid-evening flight. The rest of your life will still be there when you get back. Give yourself the gift of being mentally at Nationals, and no place else, while Nationals are in progress.

Matt

SBuxton · July 30th, 2002, 01:34 PM

I have a related question -- I'm interested to find out what the anticipated finish time is each day in Cleveland (I'm assuming the meet organizers have a rough idea of this, since they would have needed this information to invoke the 6th event rule). I am bringing my husband and 2 kids with me and would like to know whether we will be able to go out for family dinners together in the evenings. I recall from participating in the Baltimore LC nats that we did not finish until around 9:30pm each evening, and am hoping that with the lower attendance Cleveland will be much earlier. Would appreciate a response from the meet organizers on this. Thanks!

PS - Maria, hope to see you in the 100 free - I should be in the lane right beside you!!

mdhammer · July 30th, 2002, 05:50 PM

I'll do my best to change my flight, but I do have to work Monday. Sylvia, I wouldn't want you to be too lonely in the 100 free. Now if the 100 fly were on Sunday I wouldn't mind as much (ouch on the old, sore shoulders)

barryf · August 3rd, 2002, 06:45 PM

The end of competition each day for the Long Course Nationals in Cleveland without the sixth event is as follows assuming a heat interval of 45 seconds, no equipment problems and that everyone checks in and swims:

Thursday: 10:33 pm
Friday: 9:04 pm
Saturday: 7:54 pm
Sunday: 5:29 pm

If we get the typical number of scratches (11% for women and 16% for men; note that Hawaii was about 9% and 14%) we will save about an hour a day and about two hours on the distance day. We are going to try a few things to speed up the interval between heats. Saving just 15 seconds between each heat adds up to 30 to 45 minutes per day.

--Barry Fasbender, Championship Committee Chair

BTingley · August 4th, 2002, 10:50 PM

Barry,

Based on your reply, one can assume that the timeline is that we will be running from one starting end and no fly overs.

Since I cannot imagine that there will be 45 sec between heats from one end at a National Championship, when the decision is made to go from both ends of the competitive course and use chase starts or one end with fly overs, could you let us know asap.

I would like to inform my swimmers, before they arrive in Cleveland, so that they will have a clear understanding of what is expected of them .

Thanks,
Bill T

mdhammer · August 5th, 2002, 10:35 AM

Isn't the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame social on Friday (or do I have my days mixed up)? If so, 9 pm is a little late to be ending, get to the social, and be in bed early enough if you have an early event on Saturday morning, isn't it? (Or am I just being a party pooper ... )

rseltzer · August 5th, 2002, 10:46 AM

Maria:

For those not swimming the 400 IM there should be plenty of time to enjoy the Social and get back early enough for a good night's sleep. Another reason not to swim the 400 IM LCM.

mdhammer · August 5th, 2002, 04:30 PM

No, I don't swim the 400 IM but promised to cheer on a friend who does (male ... so after the women swim, nice and late). I have to be at the pool by 7 am on Saturday to check in for the 100 fly. Guess it looks like my $60 will go to waste.

IndyGirl · August 5th, 2002, 09:36 PM

Hey Maria, are you staying an hour away from the pool or something?

Swing by the social afterwards, you will be surprised. Just come in for some fellowship (think of all these people who want to meet the author of all these posts you have been leaving!).

You don't have to stay 2 hours or anything. Come relax and then go back and sweet dreams until the next morning.

swim53 · August 7th, 2002, 10:51 PM

All of you are talking like you have seen a timeline. Is it online and I am missing it, or what? I have seen the check-in times and that is it.

**matysekj** · August 7th, 2002, 11:10 PM

We don't create and post time lines for deck seeded meets. The reason is that we don't know how many people (or which people) will scratch which events, and this information can greatly effect the meet time line. Based on past meets, we expect there to be around a 10-15% scratch rate averaged over the entire meet. This number is one thing that is used to try and create the check-in times such that each event check-in deadline will be around an hour before the event starts. However, don't take this attempt at creating check-in deadlines that are an hour before the event as gospel. It is a very rough estimate. Barry posted the ending time for each day of the meet earlier in this thread if EVERYONE swims all events and swims their seed time and we take exactly 45 seconds between heats. We all know that isn't going to happen, but this is the only situation we can predict with any accuracy.

July 29th, 2002, 09:48 AM	#1
mdhammer Active Member Maria Doelger Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Setauket, NY Posts: 37	Time Line Laura et al, I have a 4:40 PM flight back to NY on Sunday and am swimming in the women's 100 free ... any ideas if I am going to make it or should I try to change my flight now? - Maria Drueckhammer

July 29th, 2002, 06:08 PM	#2
Matt S Very Active Member Matthew Shirley Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Gurnee, IL Posts: 597	Do it now! Maria, Regardless of whether you will "make it" or not, I would strongly recommend you get that later flight if the 100 free is at all important to you. I have several reasons: 1) Why add the stress right before your last event? If you are thinking about your flight (traffic to the airport, security, la la, la la la la...) instead of your event, do you actually think you will swim well? 2) People who are under this kind of stress have a tendency to lash-out at others who they perceive are to blame for the circumstances they created themselves. "Why did that darn 85 yr old take so darn long to finish the 400?! Why did that darn meet director let the starters take so darn long between heats?! Why is the pool so darn far away from the freeway?!" Etc., etc. etc. I don't know if you are one of those people, but regardless, give yourself the luxury of being able to be kind. 3) Speaking for myself, I want to savor every minute of my Nationals experience when I make the trip. I want to be able to chit-chat with my buddies, old and new, after the last event, get my splits, pick up any awards I luck into, maybe even have a fun Sunday evening with others who are not leaving until Monday. Last year three of us had dinner at the top of the Space Needle on Sunday eve. The last thing I want is to have cut everything short to go charging off to the airport. If you can stay until Monday morning, that is the "A" answer in my book. If not, at least take a mid-evening flight. The rest of your life will still be there when you get back. Give yourself the gift of being mentally at Nationals, and no place else, while Nationals are in progress. Matt

July 30th, 2002, 01:34 PM	#3
SBuxton Participating Member Sylvia Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Hershey, PA Posts: 4	Expected daily end time in Cleveland I have a related question -- I'm interested to find out what the anticipated finish time is each day in Cleveland (I'm assuming the meet organizers have a rough idea of this, since they would have needed this information to invoke the 6th event rule). I am bringing my husband and 2 kids with me and would like to know whether we will be able to go out for family dinners together in the evenings. I recall from participating in the Baltimore LC nats that we did not finish until around 9:30pm each evening, and am hoping that with the lower attendance Cleveland will be much earlier. Would appreciate a response from the meet organizers on this. Thanks! PS - Maria, hope to see you in the 100 free - I should be in the lane right beside you!!

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July 30th, 2002, 05:50 PM	#4
mdhammer Active Member Maria Doelger Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Setauket, NY Posts: 37	I'll do my best to change my flight, but I do have to work Monday. Sylvia, I wouldn't want you to be too lonely in the 100 free. Now if the 100 fly were on Sunday I wouldn't mind as much (ouch on the old, sore shoulders)

August 3rd, 2002, 06:45 PM	#5
barryf Very Active Member Barry Fasbender Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Palo Alto, CA Posts: 232	The end of competition each day for the Long Course Nationals in Cleveland without the sixth event is as follows assuming a heat interval of 45 seconds, no equipment problems and that everyone checks in and swims: Thursday: 10:33 pm Friday: 9:04 pm Saturday: 7:54 pm Sunday: 5:29 pm If we get the typical number of scratches (11% for women and 16% for men; note that Hawaii was about 9% and 14%) we will save about an hour a day and about two hours on the distance day. We are going to try a few things to speed up the interval between heats. Saving just 15 seconds between each heat adds up to 30 to 45 minutes per day. --Barry Fasbender, Championship Committee Chair

August 4th, 2002, 10:50 PM	#6
BTingley Participating Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 14	Barry, Based on your reply, one can assume that the timeline is that we will be running from one starting end and no fly overs. Since I cannot imagine that there will be 45 sec between heats from one end at a National Championship, when the decision is made to go from both ends of the competitive course and use chase starts or one end with fly overs, could you let us know asap. I would like to inform my swimmers, before they arrive in Cleveland, so that they will have a clear understanding of what is expected of them . Thanks, Bill T

August 5th, 2002, 10:35 AM	#7
mdhammer Active Member Maria Doelger Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Setauket, NY Posts: 37	Isn't the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame social on Friday (or do I have my days mixed up)? If so, 9 pm is a little late to be ending, get to the social, and be in bed early enough if you have an early event on Saturday morning, isn't it? (Or am I just being a party pooper ... )

August 5th, 2002, 10:46 AM	#8
rseltzer Active Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 84	Maria: For those not swimming the 400 IM there should be plenty of time to enjoy the Social and get back early enough for a good night's sleep. Another reason not to swim the 400 IM LCM.

August 5th, 2002, 04:30 PM	#9
mdhammer Active Member Maria Doelger Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Setauket, NY Posts: 37	No, I don't swim the 400 IM but promised to cheer on a friend who does (male ... so after the women swim, nice and late). I have to be at the pool by 7 am on Saturday to check in for the 100 fly. Guess it looks like my $60 will go to waste.

August 5th, 2002, 09:36 PM	#10
IndyGirl Participating Member Melissa Rinker Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 7	Hey Maria, are you staying an hour away from the pool or something? Swing by the social afterwards, you will be surprised. Just come in for some fellowship (think of all these people who want to meet the author of all these posts you have been leaving!). You don't have to stay 2 hours or anything. Come relax and then go back and sweet dreams until the next morning.

August 7th, 2002, 10:51 PM	#11
swim53 Very Active Member ann guins Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 145	All of you are talking like you have seen a timeline. Is it online and I am missing it, or what? I have seen the check-in times and that is it.

August 7th, 2002, 11:10 PM	#12
matysekj Administrator Jim Matysek Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Overland Park, KS Posts: 879 Blog Entries: 91	We don't create and post time lines for deck seeded meets. The reason is that we don't know how many people (or which people) will scratch which events, and this information can greatly effect the meet time line. Based on past meets, we expect there to be around a 10-15% scratch rate averaged over the entire meet. This number is one thing that is used to try and create the check-in times such that each event check-in deadline will be around an hour before the event starts. However, don't take this attempt at creating check-in deadlines that are an hour before the event as gospel. It is a very rough estimate. Barry posted the ending time for each day of the meet earlier in this thread if EVERYONE swims all events and swims their seed time and we take exactly 45 seconds between heats. We all know that isn't going to happen, but this is the only situation we can predict with any accuracy.