Fun, and Fast

[JMiller]

Originally Posted by Chris Stevenson

Every Friday is "broken mile" Friday.

Gross... I mean that in the nicest way possible... Chris, how often do you race the mile?

[JMiller]

Originally Posted by The Fortress

4 x 100 IM on 1:40
100 kick on 2:00
4 x 100 free pull on 1:20
100 kick on 2:00
4 x 100 stroke on 1:40
100 kick on 2:00
4 x 100 IM on 1:40
100 kick on 2:00

20 x 25 with fins, 3 easy on :30, 1 AFAP on 1:00

This was a good work-out, thanks for posting.

[Chris Stevenson]

Originally Posted by JMiller

Gross... I mean that in the nicest way possible... Chris, how often do you race the mile?

In a pool, I haven't raced it in 25 years. However, I do a couple open water swims every summer. (I was considering doing a couple 1000 swims in SCY season.)

The "broken mile" sets are really not any worse than any set that lasts about that long, you just have to keep track of your time and it is something that pushes you. Everyone does them, even the sprinters and the non-competitors.

[JMiller]

Originally Posted by Syd

Yes, the ab wheel works the forearms and shoulders as well as the abs. I still think the Plank is the ultimate ab exercise, though. When I started doing it I could barely hold the position for 20 seconds. Now I can stay there for 2 mins. Check out http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=MHQmRINu4jU for a video

Sure, that helps to improve core stability, thanks for sharing the link.

There are actually quite a few dryland exercises that can help to improve swimming efficiency, and this ultimately speeds up base swimming times.

[JMiller]

Do you consider the 100 back to be your main event?
Or the 50 back, a 26.8 SCM is quite fast, especially for a youthful 43.

Originally Posted by Chris Stevenson

In a pool, I haven't raced it in 25 years. However, I do a couple open water swims every summer. (I was considering doing a couple 1000 swims in SCY season.)

The "broken mile" sets are really not any worse than any set that lasts about that long, you just have to keep track of your time and it is something that pushes you. Everyone does them, even the sprinters and the non-competitors.

[Chris Stevenson]

Originally Posted by JMiller

Do you consider the 100 back to be your main event?
Or the 50 back, a 26.8 SCM is quite fast, especially for a youthful 43.

I hate 50s. They are over too quickly. Races should involve some pain.

I guess 100 & 200 back are my main events now. I don't really think that way, I like diversity in workouts. Except I don't like IM workouts (b/c I can't really train breastroke with my knees).

Anyway ViveBene will get on our case for not talking about workouts. So yesterday our main set was

10 x 100 free on 2:00, best average (from a push)

Our coach gives us this set about once every five weeks as a check for fitness level, he really pushes us to keep improving our average time. At our coach's (very mild) suggestion I've been doing it butterfly because the time I average correlates reasonably well with the last 100 of my 200 fly in a race, so I can see if there might be progress on that front.

(Actually, now that I think about it, that statement is close to true when I swam it back or free; maybe it is true for other people as well.)

[JMiller]

You've been doing this fly? Yikes, you're truly hard-core, I feel like an age-grouper all over again, talking about the sets we would do in practice. As you know, the program I prefer now is higher intensity at shorter distances. The stuff you're doing, broken miles, 10x100 best average, these sets will make you fit, but if you really wanted to blast a 200 back, why not train more sprint endurance? Anything longer, and your "power stroke" drops down into a lower gear, and that's all you can hold at the 200 distance.

You may dislike the 50's/100's, but you're gifted at those distances. 57.0 100 back scm, compared to 2:06.11 for the 200. Don't get me wrong, 2:06 is amazing, but with that kind of speed on the front end you could be down to 2:02... Although, that's unlikely if you're training for the mile.

Originally Posted by Chris Stevenson

10 x 100 free on 2:00, best average (from a push)

Our coach gives us this set about once every five weeks as a check for fitness level, he really pushes us to keep improving our average time. At our coach's (very mild) suggestion I've been doing it butterfly because the time I average correlates reasonably well with the last 100 of my 200 fly in a race, so I can see if there might be progress on that front.

[Chris Stevenson]

Originally Posted by JMiller

You've been doing this fly? Yikes, you're truly hard-core, I feel like an age-grouper all over again, talking about the sets we would do in practice. As you know, the program I prefer now is higher intensity at shorter distances. The stuff you're doing, broken miles, 10x100 best average, these sets will make you fit, but if you really wanted to blast a 200 back, why not train more sprint endurance? Anything longer, and your "power stroke" drops down into a lower gear, and that's all you can hold at the 200 distance.

You may dislike the 50's/100's, but you're gifted at those distances. 57.0 100 back scm, compared to 2:06.11 for the 200. Don't get me wrong, 2:06 is amazing, but with that kind of speed on the front end you could be down to 2:02... Although, that's unlikely if you're training for the mile.

We do PLENTY of sprint endurance (a little less speed work, I'll admit), it just isn't the ONLY thing we do. I am not in any way training for the mile, that's for sure.

I held 1:01s, so the 100s were on a "duty cycle" of 50%, meaning I got as much rest as we swum. That's pretty much rest, though I agree it isn't a sprint or sprint endurance set by any stretch. I believe the set is a good gauge of being able to bring back a 200.

Like I said, we do a lot of fast swimming in practice, believe me. I also work on power through lifting and using the parachute.

As far as which distance is my best in back, it depends somewhat on the course. Remember that I'm 44, so you probably need to compare me to my contemporaries. When I swim with the age groupers, 100 back and 100 fly are definitely my better events than the corresponding 200s; compared to others my age, it is less clear.

According to our rating calculator, last SCY season my 200 back was the best event of the three by a significant margin (ratings of 99.0 for the 50, 100.8 for the 100 and 101.8 for the 200). Of the SCM times you mentioned, the ratings for the 50/100/200 were about dead even: 100.7/101.2/100.9. It is only for LCM that the 50 beats the 200 (101.1, 101.2, 100.5, respectively, last summer).

Basically, I like doing fly; as an age-grouper 200 fly was my favorite event. Yesterday I was in a groove and it felt great, it was my best average on that set by a second. My endurance fly (absolutely necessary for the 200) has really been lacking for the past 10-15 years and I am trying -- unsuccessfully so far -- to get it back. I also happen to believe that fly training benefits ALL the strokes (as long as it doesn't hurt the shoulders), not just butterfly.

Oh, and to keep VB happy , here was today's workout.

Warmup of 1000, various strokes/kicks/drills

Freestyle set: long/aerobic, hold same pace throughout
4 x 150 on 2:00
3 x 150 on 1:55
2 x 150 on 1:50
1 x 150 on 1:45

Kick set, 6 sets of
100 VERY FAST on 1:30
50 recovery on 1:30

2 x broken 200s: 50s on 0:50, 0:45, 0:40, hold at least 200 race pace, maintain same pace throughout. Couple minutes recovery between 200s.

100 off the blocks for time

[The Fortress]

Originally Posted by Chris Stevenson

Oh, and to keep VB happy , here was today's workout.

100 off the blocks for time

Surely debating the merits of a given workout(s) for a particular event(s) or a particular type of training is within the purview of the thread?

Whatcha go?

[Lump]

Originally Posted by The Fortress

Thanks Jim! Glad to see it open again!

Today, my team did these sets (there were 3 sets of intervals):

4 x 100 IM on 1:40
100 kick on 2:00
4 x 100 free pull on 1:20
100 kick on 2:00
4 x 100 stroke on 1:40
100 kick on 2:00
4 x 100 IM on 1:40
100 kick on 2:00

20 x 25 with fins, 3 easy on :30, 1 AFAP on 1:00

Good workout! I'm gonna use this as my main set and finishing set. I'll add about 2000 SCY to it. Thanks!

[FlyQueen]

Last night we did a stroke set that definitely hurt ...

6 x 25 on :40
6 x 25 on :35
8 x 25 on :30
4 x 25 on :25

Those were my intervals I'm sure some studs out there could drop :05 or :10 off each. Sadly my poor shoulders were not up to do doing the whole thing fly so I did the first 6 fly the second set of 6 backstroke the set of 8 I did fly/fly/free/free and the last four I did fly. I wanted to make sure I had a good last four with decent technique while still getting :07 or more rest. I loved this set because it was "only" 25s but I definitely was hurting. Hopefully when I get back into shape I can make it all 24 fly.

[Chris Stevenson]

Originally Posted by The Fortress

Surely debating the merits of a given workout(s) for a particular event(s) or a particular type of training is within the purview of the thread?

Whatcha go?

Maybe so, just didn't want to take the chance.

100 fly, 55. (I was pretty tired from the broken 200s, and the kick set.)

[JMiller]

Originally Posted by The Fortress

Surely debating the merits of a given workout(s) for a particular event(s) or a particular type of training is within the purview of the thread?

Sure it is... For some of the regular posters out there you may have already read this on the General swimming thread, but I thought it might be useful for those who want to improve their swimming/work-out "focus".

Swimming is a feeling, not a thought.

That's why I prefer training models that
teach the body to feel, opening up a
different kind of thinking. Words like flow,
feel, pressure, catch, resistance, or anything
that enhances tactile understanding.
At the end of the day, kinesthetic awareness
cannot be fully understood through cognitive
analysis alone.

The fact is, everyone has different strengths
and weaknesses, and these should be explored
on a case by case basis. I would never ask
Popov to swim like Micheal Klim, or vice
versa. (or a younger version of the two)

Which is why the technique debate appears
to be flawed from the start. The question is,
what works best for you? Sure, there are
general rules, but to get the most out
of your swim, you have to reach a more
personal level.

If you're one of those people that absolutely
"needs" to think technique during your swim,
I suggest trying the checklist method. In other
words, think of 5-6 things you'd like to work
on and go through the checklist on a regular
basis. Continually move in your mind from one
point to the other, don't localize in one spot
for too long. This ensures that you don't get
"stuck" on one aspect of your swim, and this
method can actually trick your mind into a
kinesthetic state.

[geochuck]

Keep it simple, do what feels good to you. Variety is what makes break throughs in swimming. There is no one way to sprint except dive in and swim like hades.

[JMiller]

Today's swim
SCM

4x(100 free,+50 kick, +50 drill)
3x200 free with paddles
6x100, 3 easy 1 strong, 1 easy, 1 strong on 1:50
strong was 57.8, 57.2 (from push)
200 easy
6x50 breastroke on 1:15, 5 drill, 2 kicks 1 pull, 1 strong 38.5
(My coach says there is still hope for me yet, I listened to his advice)
2x100 drill free

That's it, that's all. Sorry Chris, I can only watch in awe with what you can still do in training.

[Chris Stevenson]

Originally Posted by JMiller

Sorry Chris, I can only watch in awe with what you can still do in training.

You posted some very fast times yourself.

I kept a log over the summer -- not something I usually do -- and found that I average just over 4000 yds per workout, which is not really all that much. At least, I know a lot of masters swimmers who do that much or more.

Perhaps the most unusual thing I do -- relative to a typical masters swimmer, anyway -- is butterfly sets. But I contend that, especially for a 200 butterflier, a set of 100s fly should ideally raise no more eyebrows than if I said I did them backstroke or freestyle.

[Chris Stevenson]

Today's workout

1000 warmup (I missed half)
6 x 50 warmup on 0:52 (why? I dunno, using fancy digital clocks I guess) descend to mile pace

Broken mile on 1:20/100 intervals (there were other paces available)
1 x 300 on 4:00
2 x 200 on 2:40
3 x 150 on 2:00
5 x 100 on 1:20

This is the fastest base interval we use for broken miles, though our coach was making wistful noises about 1:15 base. It may happen some day if attendance is light.

Kick set, start moderate and build.
1 x ?? on 4:00 (I did 300 dolphin with a board)
30 sec rest
1 x ?? on 3:00 (225 dolphin with a board)
30 sec rest
1 x ?? on 2:00 (150 dolphin with a board)
30 sec rest
1 x ?? on 1:00 (100 backstroke SDK, 15 kicks underwater off each wall)
Pretty much cruised the first 3 kicks, starting about 1:17/100 average but didn't descend too much, then went hard on the last kick (0:59).

100 recovery
2 x 50 on 1:00 recovery

150 RACE PACE on 2:00, from a push. Goal was to go the same speed, or faster, as the last 150 of your fastest or goal 200 time. I went backstroke, went 1:25-low. (I was motivated to beat a 15-year-old who earlier had done 1:27 on this.)
50 EZ on 1:30
100 drill on 2:00

100 RACE PACE on 1:30 from a push. As fast or faster as last 100 of 200 race. Backstroke: 54.7
50 EZ on 1:30
100 drill on 2:00

50 RACE PACE on 1:00, from a push. Everyone just went as fast as they could. Backstroke: 25.4.
50 EZ , 100 drill, hit the showers

[ande]

hey chris,

those are some excellent swims
way to go

ande

Originally Posted by Chris Stevenson

1 x ?? on 1:00 (100 backstroke SDK, 15 kicks underwater off each wall)
Pretty much cruised the first 3 kicks, starting about 1:17/100 average but didn't descend too much, then went hard on the last kick (0:59).


150 RACE PACE on 2:00, from a push. Goal was to go the same speed, or faster, as the last 150 of your fastest or goal 200 time. I went backstroke, went 1:25-low. (I was motivated to beat a 15-year-old who earlier had done 1:27 on this.)
50 EZ on 1:30
100 drill on 2:00

100 RACE PACE on 1:30 from a push. As fast or faster as last 100 of 200 race. Backstroke: 54.7
50 EZ on 1:30
100 drill on 2:00

50 RACE PACE on 1:00, from a push. Everyone just went as fast as they could. Backstroke: 25.4.
50 EZ , 100 drill, hit the showers

[Chris Stevenson]

Originally Posted by ande

those are some excellent swims
way to go

Thank you, Ande. The 50 & 100 times were not too unusual, for fast swims -- I've matched them in the past -- but the 150 was a little shocking to me. I expected 1:27-28 at best.

For some reason I was able to stay under a little longer on the underwaters without getting tired or going into oxygen-debt, and I believe that was the difference. I've been working hard on high intensity SDK sets at a longer distances than previously (75s & 100s instead of 25s & 50s), as well as a more intense dryland core routine, maybe that's all helping.

[JMiller]

TOTALLY AWESOME!!

Originally Posted by Chris Stevenson

Thank you, Ande. The 50 & 100 times were not too unusual, for fast swims -- I've matched them in the past -- but the 150 was a little shocking to me. I expected 1:27-28 at best.

For some reason I was able to stay under a little longer on the underwaters without getting tired or going into oxygen-debt, and I believe that was the difference. I've been working hard on high intensity SDK sets at a longer distances than previously (75s & 100s instead of 25s & 50s), as well as a more intense dryland core routine, maybe that's all helping.

Nothing like a little chiding from your peers, eh? You're 200 could be even more phenomenal! I'm looking forward to watching, be sure to have someone record your top races this season.... please.