Blog Comments

  1. Kurt Dickson's Avatar
    Dursteining may be the goal (like self-actualization) but whining is fun and you would be not nearly amusing without the whine. I myself would like to wonder outloud why I am still swimming...my shoulder hurts, my back hurts, and I am currently fatter than I have ever been and a full 50 pounds larger than my college days (see my BYU playing card without photo which is primarily because my homely visage offends the beautiful- http://byucougars.com/athlete/m-swim...g/kurt-dickson)

    For you I would suggest even more red meat...not even warmed... just whack and eat.

    I have no idea what all your whiny breathing numbers mean...but if any of your hypopneas become more permanent come see me.

    Good luck this weekend...
  2. The Fortress's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by That Guy
    A newfound love for the 200 fly, 400 IM, and 1650.
    I never even swam the 1650 as a kid. I can only recall swimming the 500 one time when my coach made me.

    No, no, no, I am done forever with those events.
  3. That Guy's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by The Fortress
    No nerves, no fretting, no hand wringing, no angst over lane assignments. Very un-sprinterly. What does this portend?
    A newfound love for the 200 fly, 400 IM, and 1650.
  4. The Fortress's Avatar
    I see no difference whatever between the 59 and 60 year old Jimby. Same pre-meet malaise, and likely will have the same meet results. I, on the other hand, have been a mere shell of myself from last year. No nerves, no fretting, no hand wringing, no angst over lane assignments. Very un-sprinterly. What does this portend?

    Does this mean no double dose of steak on Friday night?
  5. jim thornton's Avatar
    Tara, do you know if there have to be two officials? I don't know what the problem is, but it may be some resentment against USMS. They certainly don't seem to want to do any extra work or pay any extra money. I get the idea that the second official is the sticking point, because it supposedly costs $150 to get one to come. Let me talk to Nora again and see what she says. If one official is okay, then I don't see why there would be any problem. If two are needed, how did the LMSC pay for the ones at the recognized AMYMSA meets? I am not sure if they got their money's worth at Duquesne. If there's any moolah left over, maybe that would cover a second official at Clarion?
  6. magick17's Avatar
    Well ya know if it doesn't work out for you, bring your germs to the leprechauns next year, ok?

    And ahh, still waiting to hear from your friends about the end of the month....been kinda quite..
  7. jim thornton's Avatar
    My official splits finally got posted on the Internet.

    Here they are, Jim, for your future reference. Love, Jim

    Thanks, Jim! Love you back!

    Event 1 Men 55-59 1650 Yard Freestyle ================================================== ============================= Name Age Team Seed Finals ================================================== ============================= 1 Thornton, Jim 59 PETR-AM 20.20 19:38.20 35.22 37.61 37.96 37.47 36.86 37.19 37.15 37.23 37.19 36.50 36.70 36.36 36.31 36.49 36.23 35.72 35.58 35.84 35.79 35.51 35.64 35.63 35.75 35.11 35.29 34.97 35.40 34.79 34.60 34.06 33.14 32.90 30.01
  8. jim thornton's Avatar
    Ah, if only prologue were prophecy, or whatever that expression is that I think means "past performance is a predictor of future gains."

    Nearly one year later, I again have a nasty cold as I prepare to head down to my annual rendezvous with the Albatross...
  9. jim thornton's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by chowmi
    I see nothing wrong with the ritual of shaving, or whatever you do to prepare for a meet. For instance, I always suit up in a kneeskin and shave below the knee for any USA meet or sanctioned USMS meet. You never know when a good one will come, and there's no reason to wait to have a good swim. Even Martina suited up in her best legal racing suit for our Republic of Texas swim meet, which isn't even sanctioned for masters!!!

    And last, I am so pressed for time, that shaving, at least periodically, is a pretty good substitute for exfoliating!
    I have a vague sense of what exfoliating means. Isn't it a synonym for "flaying"?

    What exactly is the purpose of this procedure?

    I once did a photoessay on how to remove the hair from a butchered hog. Alas, I can't find the pictures anymore, but the basic idea is that you place the eviscerated carcass into a scalding barrel and then use a hair remover to finish off the rest.

    Here is a YouTube video of such a one-stop machine for this purpose. The Spanish name:
    Maquina Depiladora Escaldadora


    Do not worry! No hog shown!

    It does make me wonder if a similar device, toned down in aggressiveness, to be sure, might be adapted for exfoliation of us humans on the eve of our swimming meets?

    [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WG7oP5geA1c"]Hog Scalder & Dehairer Machine (Maquina Depiladora Escaldadora).MPG - YouTube[/nomedia]
  10. jim thornton's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Sojerz
    Jim,

    Great 1,650 splits. Holding ave. 35.88 for this distance. Your ave 100 was 1:11.76, ave 200 2:23.52, ave 400 4:47.05 and ave 500 6:00.72.

    I inserted your splits into an excel spreadsheet and tried to copy paste a pdf of the spreadsheet, but it isn't working. I calcualted your averages for 50s 100s, 200s, 400s, and 500s. The spreadheet has each of your splits at those distances throughout the 1650. I tried to get excel to calculate the variance form the respective averages for each split, but excel is treating the times as "clock" times (starting at midnight) and when you try to do the math in excel to calcualte the variance it gets confused. I may be able to get the variance calculation to work and will let you know if i do. In any event, your splits were so close that it is very easy to calculate the variance from average in your head for over/unders. In general, it looks like you had some gas in the tank to come home with - look at your 100 splits for the last 400. IMO this is good and far better than taking it out to quick.

    I'm not sure if there is a way to access your email address or attach to a message and will look for this in usms info for J Thorton. I will try to send the excel spreadsheet too. Sorry i couldn't get it to go up on this board.

    Hope this helps, and again great 1650 out there in Pitt at CMU. Sending and advance welcome to the 60-65 group too, and hope i don't ever swim any 1650 against you.

    (the date was feb 26, 2012? not 2011?
    Major thanks and kudos to SOJERZ, whose name I have recently learned comes from his residence in South Jersey!

    Bill, his real name, recently sent me the excel spread sheet that he and his friend came up with for my swim. I shall let Bill describe what this includes, with a few highlights emboldened by me:

    Hi Jim,

    I added to the spreadsheet (a friend helped too). We figured a way to get excel to calculate the variance and display when you were over average (red) and under (black). You can see the clustering of red times through about 800. Somehow at that point you figured there was enough gas to bring it home and N/S the whole rest of the race.

    If I get a chance, Ill enter the splits from that earlier race that you posted on the blog will be interesting to see the differences between the two after andes coaching tips. Also, let me know if you have trouble opening the spreadsheet. If you are have a version of excel earlier than 2009 I might need to save it an earlier excel file format .

    Windows 7 has a pretty neat little feature called the "Snipping tool" which lets you surround anything on your screen and save it as a jpg file.

    I have taken Bill's spreadsheet and snipped it thusly. It isn't the greatest pixil count, but it will give you an idea of what his self-created program will do--i.e., show which parts of the race you are going slower than the average pace, and which parts you are going faster.

    A preponderance of red in the beginning means you are negative splitting.

    A preponderance of black in the beginning means you are going out fast and trying to hold on, but most likely dying.

    A smattering of red and black throughout suggests a generally even pacing.

    Here's what my 19:38 looked like:

  11. chowmi's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by jim thornton
    I am not sure how much tapering helps; I hope it will help a lot. So far, I haven't really tapered too extensively. I got on this kick to swim as far as I could, and swim every day, in February. I have cut back a little bit since then, but not too much, and have yet to miss a day in the pool since Jan. 28.

    For me, once you shave, you have to keep doing it every week of so to prevent itching. With all the meets coming up: Albatross, our Y championships two weeks later, Colonies Zones two weeks later, and maybe (still not sure) Nats two weeks later, I will have to keep buzzing periodically. When the last one is done, I will commit to suffering the itch!
    I see nothing wrong with the ritual of shaving, or whatever you do to prepare for a meet. For instance, I always suit up in a kneeskin and shave below the knee for any USA meet or sanctioned USMS meet. You never know when a good one will come, and there's no reason to wait to have a good swim. Even Martina suited up in her best legal racing suit for our Republic of Texas swim meet, which isn't even sanctioned for masters!!!

    And last, I am so pressed for time, that shaving, at least periodically, is a pretty good substitute for exfoliating!
  12. Sojerz's Avatar
    Jim,

    Great 1,650 splits. Holding ave. 35.88 for this distance. Your ave 100 was 1:11.76, ave 200 2:23.52, ave 400 4:47.05 and ave 500 6:00.72.

    I inserted your splits into an excel spreadsheet and tried to copy paste a pdf of the spreadsheet, but it isn't working. I calcualted your averages for 50s 100s, 200s, 400s, and 500s. The spreadheet has each of your splits at those distances throughout the 1650. I tried to get excel to calculate the variance form the respective averages for each split, but excel is treating the times as "clock" times (starting at midnight) and when you try to do the math in excel to calcualte the variance it gets confused. I may be able to get the variance calculation to work and will let you know if i do. In any event, your splits were so close that it is very easy to calculate the variance from average in your head for over/unders. In general, it looks like you had some gas in the tank to come home with - look at your 100 splits for the last 400. IMO this is good and far better than taking it out to quick.

    I'm not sure if there is a way to access your email address or attach to a message and will look for this in usms info for J Thorton. I will try to send the excel spreadsheet too. Sorry i couldn't get it to go up on this board.

    Hope this helps, and again great 1650 out there in Pitt at CMU. Sending and advance welcome to the 60-65 group too, and hope i don't ever swim any 1650 against you.

    (the date was feb 26, 2012? not 2011?
  13. jim thornton's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by rodent
    Nothing is wrong with shaving during the season. It is just a lot of work and if you are going to swim a tapered meet while shaved, you might as well just do it once. You will probably swim a faster time while shaved and tapered at the same time.
    I am not sure how much tapering helps; I hope it will help a lot. So far, I haven't really tapered too extensively. I got on this kick to swim as far as I could, and swim every day, in February. I have cut back a little bit since then, but not too much, and have yet to miss a day in the pool since Jan. 28.

    For me, once you shave, you have to keep doing it every week of so to prevent itching. With all the meets coming up: Albatross, our Y championships two weeks later, Colonies Zones two weeks later, and maybe (still not sure) Nats two weeks later, I will have to keep buzzing periodically. When the last one is done, I will commit to suffering the itch!
  14. jim thornton's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by rodent
    Your 1650 is the 2nd fastest in your age group this year, your 500 is first. Why did you decide to shave down? You will have to shave for either zones or nationals, so why do it now? It looks like the garbage mileage helped for the 1650 and 500 but not so much for the 100, which is about what one would expect.
    You can get some speed work in in the last few weeks before zones and nationals. It probably won't hurt your distance events and hopefully get you more speed in the shorter events.
    Jack, I figured that since this is likely the only time I would be swimming the 1650, and breaking 20 would have made the TT last year, it made sense to shave down.

    The Albatross meet is coming up soon, too, and it will be my first time swimming in the 60-64 age group, and I planned to shave for this, so I thought: what the hey?
  15. rodent's Avatar
    Nothing is wrong with shaving during the season. It is just a lot of work and if you are going to swim a tapered meet while shaved, you might as well just do it once. You will probably swim a faster time while shaved and tapered at the same time.
  16. That Guy's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by rodent
    Your 1650 is the 2nd fastest in your age group this year, your 500 is first. Why did you decide to shave down? You will have to shave for either zones or nationals, so why do it now? It looks like the garbage mileage helped for the 1650 and 500 but not so much for the 100, which is about what one would expect.
    You can get some speed work in in the last few weeks before zones and nationals. It probably won't hurt your distance events and hopefully get you more speed in the shorter events.
    What's wrong with shaving for an in-season meet? (In other words, shaving without tapering?)
  17. rodent's Avatar
    Your 1650 is the 2nd fastest in your age group this year, your 500 is first. Why did you decide to shave down? You will have to shave for either zones or nationals, so why do it now? It looks like the garbage mileage helped for the 1650 and 500 but not so much for the 100, which is about what one would expect.
    You can get some speed work in in the last few weeks before zones and nationals. It probably won't hurt your distance events and hopefully get you more speed in the shorter events.
  18. The Fortress's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by jim thornton
    You might be right, but we do do some sprints, though probably more on a 1:4 ratio, certainly not 1:18.

    What exactly is an example of a 1:18?

    Say you swim an all out 12.5 in 5-6 seconds. 18 times this is at least a minute and a half. Assuming "active rest" counts as rest, are you saying that you swim sets of 25s on 90 seconds, going all out for 12.5 yards?

    How many of these do you do?

    Do you always incorporate active rest into the mix? For example, say you wanted to do the entire 25 AFAP. You'd have to do these on 3 minutes rest. Would you do a set of 25 on 3:00? Or 50s on 3, with the first 25 all out, and the second 25 active rest

    My problem with sprinting is only partly not training enough for it. The other problem is that my sprint stroke is a thrashing impotent inefficient bubbly mess.

    You are lucky, in a sense, given how great your SDKs are, because 16.5 of each 25 yard is underwater with only one aspect of the sport to concentrate on and coordinate. For two-thirds of the back and fly, your arms don't figure into things at all.

    It would be interesting to see what you could swim a 50 back in, for instance, the old-fashioned way--i.e., come up and start using your arms as soon as you would have had to do in the pre-SDK era.

    I am not sure the all out sprint training you do for back and fly, which is so absolutely fixated on legs and core kicking strength, translates as well to freestyle.

    What I really think I need to master is keeping a good stroke while increasing turnover, something I am having no success at all in doing this year!
    For example, I will frequently do a set or two of 8 x (25 AFAP swim or kick w/fins + 75 EZ) @ 3:00 very frequently. I usually hit 10+ seconds on these with 2:50 of rest and recovery swimming.

    I did swim the 50 back in LCM last summer which included 36+ meters of actual swimming. I am fast above water in backstroke too.

    I don't think the leg work translates as well to free either, though I did crank a good one in SCM last Dec. I am thinking about swimming the 100 free at Zones and spending some time on my back off the flip turns. Just for a fun experiment.

    Your sprint stroke is inefficient because you don't practice it enough. And that's OK. It's hard to excel in every free distance from 50-1650. You kind of have to lean one way or the other.
  19. jim thornton's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by chowmi
    I find the 1650 fascinating. What does one think about? Do you get more bored in one 1650 swim than another? I think your times are very good. It is amazing how a tweak here and there can either add up or down your time. Regarding the 50, it is simply that you are not a well-oiled sprinting machine. You simply could not tap the power that you already have in an efficient manner.
    Actually, I really like longer events (as opposed to 50s) precisely because it gives you time to think about what you are doing. I typically think about my pace and my breathing and my stroke, doing little tweaks here and there as I go along. With all out sprints (see previous comment), it's really hard to remember to do even one thing completely right, let alone a bunch of them. I admire you sprinters, really!

    I wish I could figure out how to swim sprints efficiently, and not just thrash impotently!
  20. jim thornton's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by The Fortress
    I'm not surprised your 50 was off. Can you really expect anything different with il garbagio and workouts geared to longer races? You won't excel in the 50 without AFAP 15s, 25s and 50s on good rest, possible the 1:18 work rest ratio. :-)
    You might be right, but we do do some sprints, though probably more on a 1:4 ratio, certainly not 1:18.

    What exactly is an example of a 1:18?

    Say you swim an all out 12.5 in 5-6 seconds. 18 times this is at least a minute and a half. Assuming "active rest" counts as rest, are you saying that you swim sets of 25s on 90 seconds, going all out for 12.5 yards?

    How many of these do you do?

    Do you always incorporate active rest into the mix? For example, say you wanted to do the entire 25 AFAP. You'd have to do these on 3 minutes rest. Would you do a set of 25 on 3:00? Or 50s on 3, with the first 25 all out, and the second 25 active rest

    My problem with sprinting is only partly not training enough for it. The other problem is that my sprint stroke is a thrashing impotent inefficient bubbly mess.

    You are lucky, in a sense, given how great your SDKs are, because 16.5 of each 25 yard is underwater with only one aspect of the sport to concentrate on and coordinate. For two-thirds of the back and fly, your arms don't figure into things at all.

    It would be interesting to see what you could swim a 50 back in, for instance, the old-fashioned way--i.e., come up and start using your arms as soon as you would have had to do in the pre-SDK era.

    I am not sure the all out sprint training you do for back and fly, which is so absolutely fixated on legs and core kicking strength, translates as well to freestyle.

    What I really think I need to master is keeping a good stroke while increasing turnover, something I am having no success at all in doing this year!